Are ISIS members the REAL muslims?

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watchmen98
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I mean, compared to the average western muslim, they do follow the Quran to a higher degree of accuracy right?

Well this is just my opinion, feel free to share yours.
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Scott.
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They don't need to follow their holy book at all to be a Muslim.
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driftawaay
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There is no such thing as 'real Muslims' or 'fake Muslims', if you call yourself a Muslim you are a Muslim.. nobody can determine whether someone is a Muslim, or a Christian or whatever else. You can interpret those fairy tales however you want and just because someone doesnt follow the same verses as you doesnt mean they arent a Christian or a Muslim etc. Yes, ISIS members are Muslim, Islam is the whole point of their ideology.
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xxvine
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(Original post by driftawaay)
There is no such thing as 'real Muslims' or 'fake Muslims', if you call yourself a Muslim you are a Muslim.. nobody can determine whether someone is a Muslim, or a Christian or whatever else. You can interpret those fairy tales however you want and just because someone doesnt follow the same verses as you doesnt mean they arent a Christian or a Muslim etc. Yes, ISIS members are Muslim, Islam is the whole point of their ideology.
exactly
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watchmen98
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(Original post by Scott.)
They don't need to follow their holy book at all to be a Muslim.
I thought the definition of a Muslim is one who surrenders and submits to the laws of Allah?
In that case, a Muslim has to follow his/her holy book to be regarded a Muslim right?
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tengentoppa
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They're all Muslims. The term real Muslims is meaningless because Islam has no overall authority. Both ISIS and the average western Muslim are Muslims.

Denying ISIS are Muslim is stupid because it ignores the root of the issue, namely Wahhabism.
Even in such an intolerant and backwards religion as Islam, this sect stands out as the most poisonous and must be rooted out and destroyed.
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master1234567
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No they call them self's Muslims but do not practice any part of islam.

Let me put it this way. How can an organisation fight a war for more than 4 yrs without any military training and how and where do they get weapons from. No middle east country make weapons. You would need millions if not billions of dollars to wage war and operate this barbaric organisation.

There are thousands of Muslims who has been killed by this group.

In the quran Islamic book. It says killing an innocent person is like killing whole of humanity and killer will never enter paradise.

So how can they be Muslims.

Figure this out first it was alqaeeda now its isis. Where is alqaeeda gone . Can't just disappear.
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z33
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don't even google images anything to do with isis - i can't wipe those images away oh my God I'm going to vomit...
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smartguy32
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(Original post by driftawaay)
There is no such thing as 'real Muslims' or 'fake Muslims', if you call yourself a Muslim you are a Muslim...
with that logic i could call myself a Muslim and have no belief in Allah or a God at all and that simply isn't right. The definition of a Muslim is a follower of the religion of Islam and islam is translated to mean "submit to God". So no you can't just call yourself a muslim and be a muslim, you must have faith in Islam. Isis members twist Islam and only take sections of it to justify killing inorder to build a caliphate for themselves, to gain power. They are called Islamic extremist not Muslim extremists for a reason, they use the religion to justify extreme actions and thus are terrorists, They may believe they are mulsims because they think they are following islam but they arent simple as. But it doesnt matter whether or not they are Muslim the fact is they are terrorists and need to be stopped. *sighs* religion causes so many wars, we would be so much better without it...but its to embedded into society (lies down, tries not to cry, cries a lot).
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Wattsy
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(Original post by z33)
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don't even google images anything to do with isis - i can't wipe those images away oh my God I'm going to vomit...
That's the old no true Scotsman logical fallacy though. They're Muslim, they have rules related to Islam and believe their interpretation of Islam to be the right one. I'm no expert on the KKK (or ISIS for that matter) but I assume it's exactly the same kind of warped logic. It makes them no less Muslim, they honestly identify as Muslim so they are Muslim. There's no doubt that they're a vocal and crazy minority but they are part of that collective whether the rest of the collective want them to be or not, just like Westboro or the KKK. They're fringe Christian groups but that doesn't make them not Christian even when they do things which are distinctly against that group belief in the view of the moderate majority.
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driftawaay
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(Original post by smartguy32)
with that logic i could call myself a Muslim and have no belief in Allah or a God at all and that simply isn't right.
Considering that nobody does that, what you just said is completely pointless. Didn't read further.
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z33
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(Original post by Wattsy)
That's the old no true Scotsman logical fallacy though. They're Muslim, they have rules related to Islam and believe their interpretation of Islam to be the right one. I'm no expert on the KKK (or ISIS for that matter) but I assume it's exactly the same kind of warped logic. It makes them no less Muslim, they honestly identify as Muslim so they are Muslim. There's no doubt that they're a vocal and crazy minority but they are part of that collective whether the rest of the collective want them to be or not, just like Westboro or the KKK. They're fringe Christian groups but that doesn't make them not Christian even when they do things which are distinctly against that group belief in the view of the moderate majority.
I didn't say they weren't Muslim because if someone identifies as a member of a religion they are a member of that religion. BUT - they are the extremists and like you said it is the same warped, sick logic. Ugh it just makes me sick to have something in common with them - religion of all things... Islam was meant to be about peace and love and now it's synonymous with violence and terrorism
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N-R-G
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I think they are and that the KKK is christian too.
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smartguy32
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(Original post by driftawaay)
Considering that nobody does that, what you just said is completely pointless. Didn't read further.
i was using your logic so you just said your argument was pointless, according to you if no one can determine whether or not i am Muslim then i can believe in what ever i please and i call myself and Muslim therefore i must be one so it not pointless its a major flaw in what you were saying, i didnt mean to upset you.and how can you say nobody does that... have you checked all 7 billion people on this planet... no. "someone doesnt follow the same verses as you doesnt mean they arent a Christian or a Muslim" well for example i might not follow the parts of the bible that say God did this but lead my life using the values of the 10 commandments could i still call myself christian?
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JNDSAN
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(Original post by z33)
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don't even google images anything to do with isis - i can't wipe those images away oh my God I'm going to vomit...
I'm a relatively serious Christian, and there is no doubt the KKK were a very religious Christian group. Theres no denying it as much as I'd love it to not be the case. Everyone knows it. Now I'd love it if Muslims and actually everyone would just stop being afraid and say , yes, ISIS are Muslims.
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by z33)
Islam was meant to be about peace and love and now it's synonymous with violence and terrorism
To be fair, Islam has been synonymous with danger to non-muslims for most if it's history.
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z33
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(Original post by JNDSAN)
I'm a relatively serious Christian, and there is no doubt the KKK were a very religious Christian group. Theres no denying it as much as I'd love it to not be the case. Everyone knows it. Now I'd love it if Muslims and actually everyone would just stop being afraid and say , yes, ISIS are Muslims.
Hmmm but you see I agree - the reason others don't is because ISIS ban music, smoking, videogames, graves, women going outside yet they do all of those things. They rape women and kill in cold blood, and basically play God. They lash and kill the innocent civilians who are caught doing those normal acts because they consider those to be sins even though they are not. Islam allows women to work and go outside and do whatever they want, it allows people to be entertained and happy and play and smoking is looked down upon but not punishable or a 'sin' - just like in this days' society. At least KKK practice what they preach. So ISIS don't take what is written in the Quran literally and to the extreme, they make their own rules up and play them off as being in the Quran. They are the sinners themselves.

So that's what people have told me why ISIS aren't Muslims but it still stands that anyone who identifies as a member of a religion is a member of that religion so technically ISIS are Muslims but they really don't act like Muslims should.
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Plagioclase
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(Original post by watchmen98)
I mean, compared to the average western muslim, they do follow the Quran to a higher degree of accuracy right?

Well this is just my opinion, feel free to share yours.
How 'Muslim' you are is not defined by how literally you take a piece of scripture... that's a definition you just invented.
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JNDSAN
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(Original post by z33)
Hmmm but you see I agree - the reason others don't is because ISIS ban music, smoking, videogames, graves, women going outside yet they do all of those things. They rape women and kill in cold blood, and basically play God. They lash and kill the innocent civilians who are caught doing those normal acts because they consider those to be sins even though they are not. Islam allows women to work and go outside and do whatever they want, it allows people to be entertained and happy and play and smoking is looked down upon but not punishable or a 'sin' - just like in this days' society. At least KKK practice what they preach. So ISIS don't take what is written in the Quran literally and to the extreme, they make their own rules up and play them off as being in the Quran. They are the sinners themselves.

So that's what people have told me why ISIS aren't Muslims but it still stands that anyone who identifies as a member of a religion is a member of that religion so technically ISIS are Muslims but they really don't act like Muslims should.
Au contraire my dear chum! actually, having read the Qu'ran a couple of times, I've found that ISIS keep the Koran to a much greater extent than most modern Muslims - it is they who have rather changed the Koran around to allow them to be more liberal people!
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Plagioclase
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(Original post by Wattsy)
That's the old no true Scotsman logical fallacy though. They're Muslim, they have rules related to Islam and believe their interpretation of Islam to be the right one. I'm no expert on the KKK (or ISIS for that matter) but I assume it's exactly the same kind of warped logic. It makes them no less Muslim, they honestly identify as Muslim so they are Muslim. There's no doubt that they're a vocal and crazy minority but they are part of that collective whether the rest of the collective want them to be or not, just like Westboro or the KKK. They're fringe Christian groups but that doesn't make them not Christian even when they do things which are distinctly against that group belief in the view of the moderate majority.
Okay, but nobody has ever tried to stop Christian immigration because of the KKK or the various other Christian terrorist organisations that have existed, nor has anyone ever acted as if all Christians are psychotic, murderous savages just because of the existence of these Christian organisations... whereas all of these accusations have been made against Muslims.
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