Christian assaulted by Muslims because he changed religion.
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Original post by demx9
CCTV has captured the moment a father-of-six was brutally set upon by hooded thugs with a pickaxe handle outside his home because he converted from Islam to Christianity.
Nissar Hussain, from Bradford, suffered a broken kneecap, a fractured forearm and a concussion in the attack on Tuesday.
"We are classed as blasphemers by some members of the Muslim community. They call scum and treat us as second-class citizens", he said.
Detective Inspector Andy Howard, of Bradford District CID, said initial investigations suggested is was a targeted attack and it is being treated as a religious hate crime.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3325273/CCTV-catches-terrifying-moment-father-six-brutally-set-hooded-thugs-pickaxe-handle-targeted-blasphemer-converted-Islam-Christianity.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12005859/Bradford-father-living-in-fear-after-converting-from-Islam-to-Christianity.html
Nissar Hussain, from Bradford, suffered a broken kneecap, a fractured forearm and a concussion in the attack on Tuesday.
"We are classed as blasphemers by some members of the Muslim community. They call scum and treat us as second-class citizens", he said.
Detective Inspector Andy Howard, of Bradford District CID, said initial investigations suggested is was a targeted attack and it is being treated as a religious hate crime.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3325273/CCTV-catches-terrifying-moment-father-six-brutally-set-hooded-thugs-pickaxe-handle-targeted-blasphemer-converted-Islam-Christianity.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12005859/Bradford-father-living-in-fear-after-converting-from-Islam-to-Christianity.html
add that to the big list of problems associated with islam
Original post by Use Err Name
If you don't care about the implications of that, so be it 
Implications of what?
Original post by TunaTunnel
Leaving islam and Muhammad is the most disrespectful thing
not really, its pretty standard accross the globe
certainly less disrespectful than trying to kill someone
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Logi
Can you really not see how that argument just falls flat on it's arse!? In your example these are individuals acting because of their individual beliefs. In the OP these men attacked this man because of a shared belief system, the same shared belief system to which all muslims must prescribe. They absolutely represent their community because they hold the same shared beliefs. Your community is literally defined by your shared beliefs!
No it doesn't fall flat.
There are number "muslims" who will speak to ex-muslims without shoving their fist up their throat. You are caught and programmed to think that all Muslims can somehow be represented by a single adjective which is really not far away from embracing bigotry
An Indonesian Muslim doesn't represent a Nigerian Muslim who won't represent a Mauritian Muslim who can't represent a Turkish Muslim. Hope this helps you understand.
Original post by DiceTheSlice
No it doesn't fall flat.
There are number "muslims" who will speak to ex-muslims without shoving their fist up their throat. You are caught and programmed to think that all Muslims can somehow be represented by a single adjective which is really not far away from embracing bigotry
An Indonesian Muslim doesn't represent a Nigerian Muslim who won't represent a Mauritian Muslim who can't represent a Turkish Muslim. Hope this helps you understand.
There are number "muslims" who will speak to ex-muslims without shoving their fist up their throat. You are caught and programmed to think that all Muslims can somehow be represented by a single adjective which is really not far away from embracing bigotry
An Indonesian Muslim doesn't represent a Nigerian Muslim who won't represent a Mauritian Muslim who can't represent a Turkish Muslim. Hope this helps you understand.
Now what you are suggesting is that the quran is open for interpretation and has other beliefs that would contradict this one. Unfortunately this is simply not true. To clarify, I'm not arguing that there aren't contradictory statements - there absolutely are (which some might consider unusual for a text supposedly created by a perfect being). What I am arguing is that, since the quran is believed to be the verbatim word of god, there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room to pick which bits to follow. How can you believe you have the intellect to discern which contradictions to follow; surely any decision you make will be quite insulting to your god since it must have chosen to put them in there for a reason? And with apparent eternal punishment on the line if you're wrong, you really don't want to **** up, right? This unfortunately leaves you with a pretty impossible task on your hands.
Other religions are able to escape this quandary to a certain extent. So far as I am aware, no other religion describes its holy text as the verbatim word of god. This allows them more flexibility to adjust their beliefs towards the changing values of society, essentially using modern societal values to pick which sections of their text remain somewhat agreeable. Despite your assurances to the contrary, islam does not offer this flexibility. And while it's very unfortunate that your shared belief system includes a belief that the appropriate punishment for apostasy includes extreme acts of violence, that is the belief system you've chosen to buy in to. Whether you like it or not these men were following the teachings of the quran, they are muslims and their beliefs do represent the beliefs of muslims.
That you don't like that should perhaps cause you to question why you feel the need to identify with a shared belief system which includes values that you do not agree with instead of making up your own god damn mind and forming your own personal beliefs.
TL;DR: Stop trying to blame me for your decision to buy into an inflexible and contradictory collective belief system.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Logi
Sigh. This isn't an issue of my understanding but of your decision to become part of a shared belief system. Islam is a shared belief system whose beliefs are derived from the quran and a muslim is someone who follows these beliefs. The belief that apostasy warrants extreme acts of violence is regrettably a part of that belief system.
Now what you are suggesting is that the quran is open for interpretation and has other beliefs that would contradict this one. Unfortunately this is simply not true. To clarify, I'm not arguing that there aren't contradictory statements - there absolutely are (which some might consider unusual for a text supposedly created by a perfect being). What I am arguing is that, since the quran is believed to be the verbatim word of god, there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room to pick which bits to follow. How can you believe you have the intellect to discern which contradictions to follow; surely any decision you make will be quite insulting to your god since it must have chosen to put them in there for a reason? And with apparent eternal punishment on the line if you're wrong, you really don't want to **** up, right? This unfortunately leaves you with a pretty impossible task on your hands.
Other religions are able to escape this quandary to a certain extent. So far as I am aware, no other religion describes its holy text as the verbatim word of god. This allows them more flexibility to adjust their beliefs towards the changing values of society, essentially using modern societal values to pick which sections of their text remain somewhat agreeable. Despite your assurances to the contrary, islam does not offer this flexibility. And while it's very unfortunate that your shared belief system includes a belief that the appropriate punishment for apostasy includes extreme acts of violence, that is the belief system you've chosen to buy in to. Whether you like it or not these men were following the teachings of the quran, they are muslims and their beliefs do represent the beliefs of muslims.
That you don't like that should perhaps cause you to question why you feel the need to identify with a shared belief system which includes values that you do not agree with instead of making up your own god damn mind and forming your own personal beliefs.
TL;DR: Stop trying to blame me for your decision to buy into an inflexible and contradictory collective belief system.
Now what you are suggesting is that the quran is open for interpretation and has other beliefs that would contradict this one. Unfortunately this is simply not true. To clarify, I'm not arguing that there aren't contradictory statements - there absolutely are (which some might consider unusual for a text supposedly created by a perfect being). What I am arguing is that, since the quran is believed to be the verbatim word of god, there isn't a whole lot of wiggle room to pick which bits to follow. How can you believe you have the intellect to discern which contradictions to follow; surely any decision you make will be quite insulting to your god since it must have chosen to put them in there for a reason? And with apparent eternal punishment on the line if you're wrong, you really don't want to **** up, right? This unfortunately leaves you with a pretty impossible task on your hands.
Other religions are able to escape this quandary to a certain extent. So far as I am aware, no other religion describes its holy text as the verbatim word of god. This allows them more flexibility to adjust their beliefs towards the changing values of society, essentially using modern societal values to pick which sections of their text remain somewhat agreeable. Despite your assurances to the contrary, islam does not offer this flexibility. And while it's very unfortunate that your shared belief system includes a belief that the appropriate punishment for apostasy includes extreme acts of violence, that is the belief system you've chosen to buy in to. Whether you like it or not these men were following the teachings of the quran, they are muslims and their beliefs do represent the beliefs of muslims.
That you don't like that should perhaps cause you to question why you feel the need to identify with a shared belief system which includes values that you do not agree with instead of making up your own god damn mind and forming your own personal beliefs.
TL;DR: Stop trying to blame me for your decision to buy into an inflexible and contradictory collective belief system.
This is not something that can be concluded in a whim. But I'll get dig in to the details anyway.
1) The Quran doesn't prescribe death to apostates. It's chastises apostasy and it ends there. If the Hadiths are taken into account then you can make that claim. But there are plenty of muslims who reject / accept hadiths based on their morality/ understanding / interpretation of the quran.
If you want to raise an issue with the “chastises” bit. I can share that sentiment.
2) The fact that there are seemingly contradictory verses warrants comprehensive analysis. For instance; one can make a case on how he never was a true "muslim"because he never proclaimed or believed in his faith, rather inherited it. In such occasion it's completely a fair conclusion that he was and still is a non-muslim.
3) The Quran being the word of god is correct. And as far as I'm aware there are plenty of Muslims who would class the holy book as flexible. For those militants in Syrian and Iraq and wherever, "Islam" is used as a tool to justify their political agenda and it's sad people like you don't recognize that.
4) Some typos exist. I'm not going to comment on that.
Fyi: When you assume you more likely wrong than right. Don't assume.
And..... My statement referring to Turkish/Indonesian/Nigerian Muslims still holds true.
Original post by Use Err Name
You must be well informed with current affairs, always checking Daily Mail n dat
I wonder if you would say the same thing if it was Christians who assaulted a Muslim convert. Oh wait, that's never going to happen because the liberal thought plantation teaches to suck up to the Mohammedans and hate the Christians.
Original post by Farm_Ecology
Is was founded by a lying pedophile warlord*.
*Before deleting this post. Please note, every one of these is factually and objectively correct.
*Before deleting this post. Please note, every one of these is factually and objectively correct.
Do you really think political correctness cares for such silly things as facts?
Religion of piss
"Apostasy" does not refer to beliefs, but rather political loyalties in this context.In an Islamic political system, like a Caliphate, the Muslims give bay'ah (oath of allegiance) to an Imam(leader). This is considered to be a pledge that you cannot go back on. So even if you lose faith in Islam, stop praying, stop believing in God Quran etc, you cannot turn against the Imam - doing so is considered to be treason.
As far as individual beliefs are concerned, it is between the individual and God - the state has no right to intervene.For Qur'anic ayahs on apostasy as far as beliefs are concerned, see the following: 2.109, 2.143, 2.217, 3.72, 3.77, 3.80, 3.82, 3.86, 3.90, 3.100, 3.106, 3.144, 3.149, 3.177, 3.187, 4.81, 4.137, 5.54, 49.15, 63.3. Not once is death penalty, let alone any kind of penalty, mentioned.
Freedom of religion in Quran - 2.156 (“no compulsion in religion”) 18.29 (“this is the truth from your Lord; so whoever wills, let him believe, and whoever wills, let him disbelieve”) 88.21-22 (“so remind, you are only a reminder; you are not a controller over them”)
As far as individual beliefs are concerned, it is between the individual and God - the state has no right to intervene.For Qur'anic ayahs on apostasy as far as beliefs are concerned, see the following: 2.109, 2.143, 2.217, 3.72, 3.77, 3.80, 3.82, 3.86, 3.90, 3.100, 3.106, 3.144, 3.149, 3.177, 3.187, 4.81, 4.137, 5.54, 49.15, 63.3. Not once is death penalty, let alone any kind of penalty, mentioned.
Freedom of religion in Quran - 2.156 (“no compulsion in religion”) 18.29 (“this is the truth from your Lord; so whoever wills, let him believe, and whoever wills, let him disbelieve”) 88.21-22 (“so remind, you are only a reminder; you are not a controller over them”)
Original post by Farm_Ecology
Is was founded by a lying pedophile warlord*.
*Before deleting this post. Please note, every one of these is factually and objectively correct.
*Before deleting this post. Please note, every one of these is factually and objectively correct.
There is one thing is is factually incorrect, actually.
The spelling of the word "pedophile".
It should be "paedophile", the (superior) British way,
and yes, I have the arrogance to say that,
b'cos, British is better (and preferable to me.)
Original post by DiceTheSlice
This is not something that can be concluded in a whim. But I'll get dig in to the details anyway.
1) The Quran doesn't prescribe death to apostates. It's chastises apostasy and it ends there. If the Hadiths are taken into account then you can make that claim. But there are plenty of muslims who reject / accept hadiths based on their morality/ understanding / interpretation of the quran.
If you want to raise an issue with the “chastises” bit. I can share that sentiment.
2) The fact that there are seemingly contradictory verses warrants comprehensive analysis. For instance; one can make a case on how he never was a true "muslim"because he never proclaimed or believed in his faith, rather inherited it. In such occasion it's completely a fair conclusion that he was and still is a non-muslim.
3) The Quran being the word of god is correct. And as far as I'm aware there are plenty of Muslims who would class the holy book as flexible. For those militants in Syrian and Iraq and wherever, "Islam" is used as a tool to justify their political agenda and it's sad people like you don't recognize that.
4) Some typos exist. I'm not going to comment on that.
Fyi: When you assume you more likely wrong than right. Don't assume.
And..... My statement referring to Turkish/Indonesian/Nigerian Muslims still holds true.
1) The Quran doesn't prescribe death to apostates. It's chastises apostasy and it ends there. If the Hadiths are taken into account then you can make that claim. But there are plenty of muslims who reject / accept hadiths based on their morality/ understanding / interpretation of the quran.
If you want to raise an issue with the “chastises” bit. I can share that sentiment.
2) The fact that there are seemingly contradictory verses warrants comprehensive analysis. For instance; one can make a case on how he never was a true "muslim"because he never proclaimed or believed in his faith, rather inherited it. In such occasion it's completely a fair conclusion that he was and still is a non-muslim.
3) The Quran being the word of god is correct. And as far as I'm aware there are plenty of Muslims who would class the holy book as flexible. For those militants in Syrian and Iraq and wherever, "Islam" is used as a tool to justify their political agenda and it's sad people like you don't recognize that.
4) Some typos exist. I'm not going to comment on that.
Fyi: When you assume you more likely wrong than right. Don't assume.
And..... My statement referring to Turkish/Indonesian/Nigerian Muslims still holds true.
Original post by XcitingStuart
There is one thing is is factually incorrect, actually.
The spelling of the word "pedophile".
It should be "paedophile", the (superior) British way,
and yes, I have the arrogance to say that,
b'cos, British is better (and preferable to me.)
The spelling of the word "pedophile".
It should be "paedophile", the (superior) British way,
and yes, I have the arrogance to say that,
b'cos, British is better (and preferable to me.)
Anywho it comes to something when I'd rather discuss semantics than engage any further with certain morons in this thread so I think it's time to take my leave.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Logi
There's just so much dumb in this I don't even know where to begin. In fact, since its become painfully obvious that you have no interest in reading the words I'm typing or simply lack the capability to comprehend their meaning, I'm not even sure I should begin. However, I do feel the need to point out the beauty of the paragraph in bold whereby your first sentence contradicts your second right before the third sentence ironically falls foul of the first. It's almost perfect in its stupidity.
Yep i totally expected a post like this from you but not so very soon. You can take a bow and get out of my way.
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