Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I have attempted to learn Tiger / Lamb, the two chimney sweepers, The sick Rose / The Blossom, The Echoing green and London. Am I missing any obvious gaps here??? I've done this whole course by distance learning and I'm struggling to get sensible constructive exam techniques questions answered from a folder!!!! Please help me?!!!!!!!! I think I'll go and try to learn clod & pebble right now!

    thanks!
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    musicman-i think thats a really good idea about the nightingale and poetry.i didn't even think of that!-ok now to answer your question about the context, using this example of the nightinglae and poetry point that you made, to weave in the context, you could use the quote from his letter dated Feb 1820, written to Fanny Brawne, where he says, ''If I should die' said I to myself, ''I have no immortal work behind me-nothing to make my friends proud of my memory...' This is using context, as you're using his own words in his letters to back up your point. You could also use the poem, 'When I have fears that I may cease to be' which is mainly about Keats being afraid of death, as he will no longer be able to continue with his poetry, and he feels that his poetry is not good enough to be remembered by. Remember also, that many people in his time, considered him to be a 'Cockney poet' which hurt him a lot.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Do you think that if you paraphrase quotes but use some definate language from it they'll accept it as a quote? for example...."I am no strumpet, but as honest as you that thus abuse me" rather than " I am no strumpet, but of life as honest as you that thus abuse me".

    It seems like a massive job leanring quotes word for word and surely if the examiner sees that you know the text he/she won't penalise you for wasting your time on direct quotes?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hohum)
    Do you think that if you paraphrase quotes but use some definate language from it they'll accept it as a quote? for example...."I am no strumpet, but as honest as you that thus abuse me" rather than " I am no strumpet, but of life as honest as you that thus abuse me".

    It seems like a massive job leanring quotes word for word and surely if the examiner sees that you know the text he/she won't penalise you for wasting your time on direct quotes?
    It's easier just to remember the key terms in the quote and interweave them into your sentences: this is actually what they're looking for. So using your example, you could say something like: Desdemona protests that she is not, as Othello accuses her of being, a "strumpet", and we see her shocking innocence when she insists she is "as honest as" Othello who "abuses" her - not a very good point but you get the idea - that's better than remembering the whole quote and the archaic syntax.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sneezyme)
    musicman-i think thats a really good idea about the nightingale and poetry.i didn't even think of that!-ok now to answer your question about the context, using this example of the nightinglae and poetry point that you made, to weave in the context, you could use the quote from his letter dated Feb 1820, written to Fanny Brawne, where he says, ''If I should die' said I to myself, ''I have no immortal work behind me-nothing to make my friends proud of my memory...' This is using context, as you're using his own words in his letters to back up your point. You could also use the poem, 'When I have fears that I may cease to be' which is mainly about Keats being afraid of death, as he will no longer be able to continue with his poetry, and he feels that his poetry is not good enough to be remembered by. Remember also, that many people in his time, considered him to be a 'Cockney poet' which hurt him a lot.
    Thanks a lot, I understand the context thing now, but our teacher never told us anything about this: she's hopeless!! I have some info on context somewhere which I'll dig out. I'm glad my point wasn't far-fetched then: I'll make sure I remember the quote from the letter that you're talking about to back it up!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sneezyme)
    somebody gave me bad rep for this thread-but i don't know what i did wrong, :confused:
    can anyone tell me if i've offended them or said something that they don't agree with please? sorry if i have!
    wasn't me... you've been most helpful ! In fact, if you tell me HOW to give rep (haven't sussed it yet) then I shall repay my eternal gratitude for your excellent assistance
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    oh sorry!!!! i'm really sorry-i thought i got bad rep, but i just checked the FAQ and it wasn't bad rep it was a grey gem which means whoever repped me doesn't have enough posts to rep me!-thats why i deleted that post just now! sorry sorry sorry sorry.....i should have double-checked the FAQ before i wrote the post!
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    and hohum, thats really sweet of you, but you don't have to rep me for it-i did it to help, not to get rep!

    thats why when i thought i got bad rep i was so worried i offended someone, but thank god i was mistaken!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I'm getting soooo stressed! I've just realised how little I actually know and I have my main bundle of exams around my english 4 exam

    Could anyone please please help me on my Blake... Im getting stuck on the whole "context" stuff... when sort of context are you relating to the poems and what poems are you learning for each topic (eg nature, religion, education etc) I feel like crying right now... pleeeeeeeeease help?! :confused: :eek:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Yeah I feel the same. I seem to go round in circles with Blake. I seem to spend hours working through the meanings of a poem only to get to the end and find I still couldn't explain what it is all about.

    I haven't learnt many poems at all. What do you think of these ones??
    - Chimney sweepers - can show cynical attitude of church goers
    - abuse of the poor children, victims of soc
    - vision of heaven
    Blake as a social reformer

    echoing green and london - agrarian revolution
    - nature
    - contempt for God, prist and king (american war of I)
    -blake as a romantic

    The sick rose and The Blossom and The clod and Pebble
    -show diff forms of love and how experience spoils it

    Tiger and Lamb
    - nature
    religon - questioning God as a creator
    - industrial rev
    - Blake as a romantic
    these two also seem to be impt images in explaining Innocence and experience anyhow.


    Not sure if that is of any help or not but it is as far as I've got!
    What have you done? :confused:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Yea it does help thanks

    So far I'm just going through poems rying to draw out important quotes that I can use generally in my exam, eg "mind-forg'd manacles" can be used in lots of places in most essays!
    I'm hoping we're going to get a nice question like "religion"... that would be v nice but as i want it to come up i doubt it will!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Does anybody know of anything significant in Keats's life which could have caused his cynical attitude to love in 'Lamia', where he describes it as "cinder, ashes, dust"? I can't find anything relevant but was wondering how I could relate it to this context malarky!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by musicman)
    Does anybody know of anything significant in Keats's life which could have caused his cynical attitude to love in 'Lamia', where he describes it as "cinder, ashes, dust"? I can't find anything relevant but was wondering how I could relate it to this context malarky!
    His love for Fanny Brawne perhaps? How he was so in love with her yet they couldn't marry? [because of his inevitably fatal illness]. Undoubtedly that made him feel cynical towards love in general.
    I can't remember much of Lamia, haven't revised it yet. Is it a very cynical poem?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    yeh press2play is right-his love for fanny brawne. also there's a letter (june 1820) in which he states he will resent his 'heart being made a football.' because he thinks fanny brawne used to flirt with his best friend charles brown on purpose to hurt him. he also says, 'When you were in the habit of flirting with Brown...' the poem 'la belle dame sans merci' shows how he feels women are seductresses, femme fatales, loving men and leaving them, weakened.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Thanks sneezyme and press2play for that: it's really helpful. Lamia is not overly cynical, it's just he seems to be portraying the idea, like in La Belle Dame, that women are femmes fatales: Lycius is completely blinded by lust for Lamia "he fell" and "was enticed" "against his better self", and we see Lamia presented as an unbelieveable character who claims her relationship with Lycius will "unperplex bliss from its neighbour pain" - Keats as we know (negative capability!) believes that pain and bliss can't be separated, so is building up a sense of cynicism regarding their relationship. Lamia is later exposed as a temptress by Apollonius's "eye severe", and she vanishes. It's very much a longer version of La Belle Dame. Hope that helps for a bit of revision!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Ok here is a list of poems I would do for each section... if you don't agree with ones iv put in or want to add something please say!

    Sexual Relationships

    My Pretty Rose Tree
    The Lilly (contrast to the rose)
    The Clod and the Pebble
    The sick Rose

    Religion

    The Chimney Sweeper
    London
    The Little Vagabond
    A Little Boy Lost - experience

    Political Establishment - ills in society

    The Little Vagabond
    London
    The Chimney Sweeper

    The Industrial Revolution

    London
    The Chimney Sweeper
    Infant Sorrow

    Agrarian Revolution

    The Echoing Green
    Laughing Song
    Garden of Love

    Social Evils

    London
    The Little Vagabond
    Garden of Love

    Parents and Children

    The Shepard
    The Nurses Song - innocence
    Infant Sorrow
    The Little Vagabond

    Hope that helps... I'm having trouble finding suitable poems for the topics of education and for the influence on Blake of what he read and the French Revolution....

    Please could anyone post poems and quotes etc cuz im stressing majorly about this exam and if we all help each other we should all feel a lot more confident on tuesday! x x
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by musicman)
    Thanks sneezyme and press2play for that: it's really helpful. Lamia is not overly cynical, it's just he seems to be portraying the idea, like in La Belle Dame, that women are femmes fatales: Lycius is completely blinded by lust for Lamia "he fell" and "was enticed" "against his better self", and we see Lamia presented as an unbelieveable character who claims her relationship with Lycius will "unperplex bliss from its neighbour pain" - Keats as we know (negative capability!) believes that pain and bliss can't be separated, so is building up a sense of cynicism regarding their relationship. Lamia is later exposed as a temptress by Apollonius's "eye severe", and she vanishes. It's very much a longer version of La Belle Dame. Hope that helps for a bit of revision!
    it IS like a longer version of La Belle Dame, i never noticed till' now! the only different thing is that La Belle Dame is medieval and Lamia is greek helenic
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    does anyone know what to write if 'Camelion poet' or 'Cockney poet' come up?
    i sort-of know what they mean but i wouldn't be able to write an essay on them!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sneezyme)
    does anyone know what to write if 'Camelion poet' or 'Cockney poet' come up?
    i sort-of know what they mean but i wouldn't be able to write an essay on them!
    Hehe I'd pick the other question!!
    I think for the 'Cockney Poet' thing, I'd write about the fact that some of his contemporaries tried to play down Keats' talent and criticise his beliefs and his work by calling him this.. ummm perhaps also that he was considered 'lower class' because he was 'only a medical student'?! I don't know. We haven't covered that at all. I would say though, that it encouraged Keats to prove his critics wrong and to write some of his best work.. also added to his insecurities; "here lies one whose name was writ on water" or something, and "I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest" shows how criticism made him determined to succeed and almost paranoid that he'd fail.
    Perhaps..!

    By the way, musicman, I'd never thought about Lamia like that, good point, thanks! I suppose you'd use that poem as an example of Keats' attitude to women then, especially the portrayal of Lamia as a serpent. Great, cheers!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sneezyme)
    does anyone know what to write if 'Camelion poet' or 'Cockney poet' come up?
    i sort-of know what they mean but i wouldn't be able to write an essay on them!
    You could perhaps also link this to his lack of a priviliged lifestyle in comparison to other poets: he was always working to prove them wrong and shake of his inferior "cockney poet" tag, hence his redrafting of his Hyperions, etc. The way in which he wanted his poetry to live on and be remembered (cf Ode to a Nightingale) may reflect how he wanted to prove them wrong. Also, the way in which his poetry is so much based upon human experience may be reflective of his 'cockney' lifestyle: e.g. Lamia + La Belle Dame - seductresses; Hyperion (Fragment) - tone of resignment: perhaps reflects his illness and resigned to the fact that change will occur and mortality is part and parcel of life, etc etc!! It is quite a tough question: hope we don't get that but I suppose it's good to be prepared!!!
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.