Was the Iraq war a complete failure? Watch

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cricket
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#21
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#21
I don't agree with the war. I am one of many Americans who don't agree with the war. I just hope that other nations, like the united nations, don't get the wrong idea of America. I know that what is going on is shining a bad light on America. But I hope that you understand that we were pretty much deceived like the rest of the world. And we are currently deeling with that issue right now. There is talk of the president strechting the truth to get America to go along with the war. And I personaly think that President Bush is going to have to do a lot to redeem himself after all of this. Simply because the country's views on him are changing. I know that many are happy that Sadam's rein is falling and that may have been the goal. But what we are looking at is what were our actual reasons to go over into the country in the first place. And while other's may believe that the war is becoming a success, many believe that Bush's term at presidency is causing more trouble than good. It seems that he may be starting many things but not finishing them. It all started with 9/11 and Osama bin Laden has still not been found. And soon after the country went into Iraq for reasons that still aren't entirely clear. And now the whole thing in Liberia that pretty much makes no since what soever. It all just seems like it isn't entirely neccessary. And the country is slowly but surely realizing that as well. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As for the whole protesting thing, what good would protesting in Iraq do. If you want to be heard, you have to go to the source, which is Washington, which is exactly what they are doing. So I just don't understand the reasoning behind the statement made about protesters. They are fully within their rights, and I am all for what they are doing. If they don't agree with something, they are making it known. Anyway, lastly, I want to make it clear that Bush is my president and I stand behind him even though I don't agree with him. And since we do live in a democracy, it is okay to make that known.
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The Dude
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#22
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[QUOTE=cricket]I just hope that other nations, like the united nations, don't get the wrong idea of America. I know that what is going on is shining a bad light on America. But I hope that you understand that we were pretty much deceived like the rest of the world.[QUOTE]


I fully support the actions taken by Britain, America, Canada and Australia to eradicate the tyrannical Iraqi regime. There is no bad light being shone from where I am standing, only a proud and supportive light. I don't feel decieved either. Maybe I'm in the minority by supporting the war on Iraq. But let it be known, that not everyone is trying to bring down the leaders of our nations for what was a righteous decision to wage war against a brutal regime.

To be honest, I reckon that most anti-war protesters are probably just jumping on the anti-war band-wagon so they can feel a part of something and it gives them something they can direct anger towards (when in reality it is something they feel angry about in their own lives not the war on Iraq).
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cricket
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#23
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Nicely said.
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Toyosi
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#24
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(Original post by The Dude)
To be honest, I reckon that most anti-war protesters are probably just jumping on the anti-war band-wagon so they can feel a part of something and it gives them something they can direct anger towards (when in reality it is something they feel angry about in their own lives not the war on Iraq).
Thats a bit of a sweeping generalisation wouldn't you say. Anyway, have decided to stop my crusade against America cause it's silly. Don't think anything could change my feelings for George Bush however. The war with Iraq was not a failure in some senses and a success in others. I think everyone, anti war protesters and warmongers alike, could agree with that.
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LH
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Toyosi)
Thats a bit of a sweeping generalisation wouldn't you say. Anyway, have decided to stop my crusade against America cause it's silly. Don't think anything could change my feelings for George Bush however. The war with Iraq was not a failure in some senses and a success in others. I think everyone, anti war protesters and warmongers alike, could agree with that.
That is very well put.

Though I must point out that anti-war protesters (I am not one) and the likes of Robin Cook and Claire Short did have a point when they warned that there were no WMDs.
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Toyosi
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#26
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(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
That is very well put.

Though I must point out that anti-war protesters (I am not one) and the likes of Robin Cook and Claire Short did have a point when they warned that there were no WMDs.
That's the point. If you wanna go to war to stop an evil dictator why not just say so. Nobody likes evil dictators. There's no need to mask it in the WMD thing cause now it looks like the government's lied to us and has dodgy secret motives for starting a war which the populace might not agree with.
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The Dude
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#27
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(Original post by Toyosi)
That's the point. If you wanna go to war to stop an evil dictator why not just say so. Nobody likes evil dictators. There's no need to mask it in the WMD thing cause now it looks like the government's lied to us and has dodgy secret motives for starting a war which the populace might not agree with.

But if the government said that they were 'going to war to stop an evil dictator' then there would have been EVEN MORE protest. The world community would be saying that 'western countries ave no right to interfere regardless of the circumstances' and people would still say 'it's all about THE PRICE OF OIL'.

The government knew that the best option would be to say that 'there is a threat to our national security and we need to take pre-emptive actions to counter it'. And add that it is also for the 'embetterment' of the Iraqi people.

Anyway, I reckon WMD will turn up eventually, after all Iraq is a very big country. Saddam Hussein is/was well known for using vast underground bunkers to hide weaponry, so they could be anywhere considering that Iraq is mostly desert.
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a new sun
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#28
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I would venture to say it is far too early to determine at this point. I believe what is happening in Iraq is far from over. Whether all of this will bog down to a war of attrition is debatable. As for Mr. Blair and Mr. Bush. The pressure they are under as leaders of the free world must be unbelievably intense. The decision they make affects not only the UK and the US, but most of the middle east. History will prove out whether they will be considered mindful or mindless. As with all things much goes on behind the scenes that the common man knows little of. (Things which affect their decisions for regime change, or war.) Unfortunately it isnt always best for everyone to know everything all the time. In the end some of those "real" reasons for all of this may be lost in history, but the end product considered a sucess. As in the past, waiting too long to act against such dictators may be worse than acting to soon...regardless of the justifications given. Decisions, decisions.
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llama boy
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#29
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#29
The war, in terms of the aims of those who fought it, was a success, yes.
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J.S.
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#30
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(Original post by Unregistered)
If you don't like George Bush then that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But personally, I am sick to death of anti-war protesters etc attacking Blair and Bush. They don't do anything productive to make the world a better place, they just sit on their arses and moan, whinge and whine. What good does that do? Nothing that's what! If they really feel that strongly why don't they go over to Iraq and protest there? They can't have the best of both worlds, sitting in a nice comfortable democratic country whilst ****ging off the leaders that ensure this stays a free-world. I for one am proud of our great leaders.

George Bush went to Harvard and is a good role model. I aspire to be like him, we need more people like both Bush and Blair to set a good example to the younger generation.

Many of the anti war protestors do a hell of a lot more than sit on their arse. How about the human shields? Some of the protestors are even able to construct coherent arguments against war. As for Bush being a good role model, due to having attended Harvard, well, that's a majority view. It's not a majority view with regard to Bush, as we've witnessed that he's no Noam Chomsky on foreign relations. No Shakespeare with the English Language. Well, I think you get the gist of it. It's just that people are fooled too readily by labels, the "oh yes, he must be right, ohhh of course his thinking must be stop on he's a Harvard graduate” mentality.
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Vienna
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#31
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(Original post by Alibumaye)
The Iraq war was an undeniable success. The aim was to destroy Saddam Hussein's control in Iraq. Clearly this has been achieved.

As to the situation in post-war Iraq, I belive it was inevitable that events were to develop as they have. The racial, religious and political make up of Iraq ultimately resulted in it being impossible for the US to have, before the war even began, arranged any kind of government/administartion to take over immediately. Too many waring factions exist, striving to achieve different aims and goals and influenced by varying factors, for unity and agreement to suddenly be established when for the past 10-20 years opposition to Saddam's regime had been fragmented and disorganised. Whilst it may sound questionable, perhaps it is neccessary to endure the current period of unrest so the Iraqi people can unleash their anxieties and anguish until eventually they realise that the threat of the Baath party, Saddam and his henchmen is no longer and that, despite the belief many hold in the arab world, the US forces aim to achieve peace, stability and prosperity in Iraq.

Thus far I certainly have appeared pro-American. The US still has a great deal to do however. As we saw in Afghanistan there is a tendency for the Bush administration to leave a job half-done. If the same is followed in Iraq then undoubtedly a dramatic rise in terrorism and anti-american sentiment will be a result. President Bush needs to actively and constantly seek discussion between the potential leaders and the people of Iraq to achieve a style of governemt Iraq wants and needs. This is a long-term objective and can only be achieved if, in the short-term, efforts are made to restore "normal" life and destroy the air of suspicion and fear which exists at present.
*round of applause*
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Vienna
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#32
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(Original post by Toyosi)
I wouldn't describe myself as an anti-war protester. I'm all for war under the right circumstances. This whole issue is really confusing but in general am just gonna say war as a means of world peace is a bit of a paradox and would never work. You can't just blow up things you don't like. It doesn't always solve the root of the problem.

Does anyone else think maybe we have our freedom and comfort at the expense of other nations? It's just a question, I don't know the answer
this is a case of world peace at the expense of war. it is the only way to solve the root of the problem.

and yes, our(european) freedom comes at the expense of the US military and the american taxpayer.
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Vienna
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#33
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there seems to be some confusion of the motives or reasons to go to war. the obvious one in my book and the one both administrations were pursuing was the question of terrorism and the threat to national security that terrorism and regimes that harbour them pose. the war was about getting rid of a possible threat to US and UK security by establishing a democratic Iraq. in the short term this also included removing WMDs from the region, but that is a secondary point. thirdly, Saddam had breached a number of UN resolutions and was a menace to his people. the politicians pushed this more than they really cared for purely because it was the easiest to sell to the public and sceptics. however, and as Ann Coulter would say, anyone with an IQ of a toaster can see the real issues.

the only question i have with the coalition now is, after Iraq, how long before we go into Pakistan?
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kebab22
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#34
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(Original post by vienna95)
this is a case of world peace at the expense of war. it is the only way to solve the root of the problem.

and yes, our(european) freedom comes at the expense of the US military and the american taxpayer.
and waht precisely is the root of the problem?
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Vienna
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#35
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(Original post by kebab22)
and waht precisely is the root of the problem?
regimes that aid and harbour fundamentalist terrorism.
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kebab22
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#36
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(Original post by vienna95)
regimes that aid and harbour fundamentalist terrorism.
outside the box vienna, outside the box. do you really, truly and honsetly believe the problem of fundamentalist terrorism can be tackled by the US miltiariy going on a rampage round the globe? I for one don't even believe that Iraq posed any threat in view of it 'harbouring terrorsist' but putting that aside your world view seems naive and unsophisticated. Do you factor in to your views why fundamentailism has flourished in the Middle East? Surely if you did you would surely be slightly more sceptical about US unilateral action and intervention. I accpet your politcal stance is different to mine but when you say things like 'when are we going into Pakistan', I question you intelligience. Would an invasion of Pakistan quell fundamentalists around the globe? and anyway you talk so much about creating a democratic Iraq to eliminate the threat of WMDs , terrorists etc etc, everyone agrees that a stable democratic Iraq is far from being created. Surely we shoud finish the job we started if you believe the cause of democracy from intervention in Iraq to be a good one.

I strongly hold that the world's problems can not be solved by the militairy might of the US. I am no pacifist, and am undecided on the merits of foriegn intervention as a tool to promote human rights, but your views vienna seem to me to lack a fundamental sophistication.
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MattG
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#37
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After seeing the vastly increased freedom of the iraqi people it must be said that the war was a success in this respect. A evil dictatorship has been ended.

However my opposition to the war, like many others is that of intention. this war was fought in the context of removing weapons of mass destruction from Saddams grasp. The coalition gave saddam the ultimatium that by allowing inspectors access the invasion would not take place. This war wasn't about the liberarating the iraqi people, that was just a consequence that has put the americans in a position they do not like. Supporting iraq.
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SaeedRehman
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Adhsur)
I agree wholeheartedly with Alibumaye. I have been pro-war all along despite so many people being completely against it. I read the stories of what Saddam and his sons did to people and it broke my heart that there was such downright cruelty in the world (some of the stuff they did was absolutely sickening). Maybe they didn't find weapons of mass destruction, but I think they did something better which was they put an end to all the injustice these people had been committing for years and would have continued to done so to many more innocent people. I say the war was for a good cause.
ever heard of propaganda?
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SaeedRehman
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#39
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#39
(Original post by ickle_katy)
is anyone better off from the war????

surely a success would mean that a majority would need to be better off?

love Katy ***
and i dont see many people happy? instead the world is in chaos, arguing over silly things.
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SaeedRehman
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#40
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#40
(Original post by ickle_katy)
are you american???


love Katy ***
he sounds like it. how can some one go to war on another country without them facing any threat from them.

do other countries mess with our internal affairs, even if the law is just or unjust?
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