The Student Room Group

What is wrong with hating a religion?

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Reply 40
Original post by Alexion
Nothing wrong with hating a religion.

A lot wrong with hating the people who follow it because they follow it.


What about major proponents of a religion? Surely it's reasonable to dislike them based on the fact that to model themselves on an ideology which you hate means they are probably going to be very contrary to you.
Reply 41
Original post by The Diplomat.
.g. criticism of Mohammed because he had sex with a 9 year old guy =paedophilia. A lot of muslims will get pissed off if you said that.


The butthurt is amazing
Absolutely nothing. A religion is a collection of beliefs towards the origin of life and how life should be lived. Anybody who says we must not criticise certain religious beliefs (ie those who whine and cry "Islamiphobia" when Islam is criticised) is nothing but a fascist.
(edited 8 years ago)
If you understand the religion and know what you're talking about, it's fine I guess. What isn't fine is hating the adherents of the religion.
Reply 44
Original post by Kittiara
If the criticism of a religion leads to calls for the expulsion of all its followers from Europe


I don't understand, why shouldn't this be allowed if the followers have a set of moral values so diametrically opposed to ours ?
Original post by Eigo-Jin
How so?

The fact that not everyone agrees on the same thing. A secular society puts no religion into politics or governing, eliminating religiously motivated politics.
Free speech laws help with this too.
Original post by KingBradly
What about major proponents of a religion? Surely it's reasonable to dislike them based on the fact that to model themselves on an ideology which you hate means they are probably going to be very contrary to you.

Just to play devils advocate. Not all adherents of religions believe in the same thing, even if their beliefs are based on the same book.
Though, in my opinion if this hypothetical hatred is not directed in the form of harassment, violence or threatening safety, then go ahead and hate. It is your right, even if it is dogmatic hatred. Such hate will be scrutinized in the free-market of ideas - or pseudo free market of ideas...
Speech against speech, how it should be.
Reply 47
Original post by Kittiara
It is perfectly okay to question or criticise any religion. Even here on TSR. :wink: It's all about how it is done, though. If the criticism of a religion leads to calls for the expulsion of all its followers from Europe, calls for acts of aggression and acts of hatred towards the followers, if it leads to personal insults towards its followers, or sweeping negative generalisations, then that is not okay. Unfortunately, quite often threads on certain religions end up messy and deeply unpleasant, which will lead to the conversation being closed. But it's not like there aren't, and haven't been, many, many threads on the topic.


Urm, neither of my last posts that got deleted did any of those things. Nor did some other people's. Also, there isn't anything wrong with generalizations. Intelligent people make generalizations. The point of generalizations is that they're generally true, but not necessarily true of everyone. It's not complex. If someone said "all muslims are evil" that would be an overgeneralization, but I never see anyone say that on here. I certainly have never said anything like that; my criticisms have never been any worse than anything Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins has said. They're hardly well known for being far-right racists.

Another user just posted some nasty verses of the Qu'ran and switched the bits that say "unbeliever" with "muslims", and even that got deleted. Clearly you're OK with people posting Islamic quotes that say horrible things about non-believers, but god forbid someone edit those same quotes to say the same things about Muslims.

Also, sometimes you delete people's posts when all they're doing is just stating facts about who Muhammad was supposed to have been according to Islamic scriptures. Numerous times I've seen you delete posts that mention the fact that Muhammad was a child molester, and a mass murderer, despite the fact that all of those things are just exactly what he is depicted as being in the Bukhari Hadith. Thus you are not interested in stopping unjustified abuse, you're interested in controlling information.
(edited 8 years ago)
Your entitled to your own opinion , what i don't understand is why you spend hours bashing religions on a student forum.
Reply 49
Original post by KingBradly
Urm, neither of my last posts that got deleted did any of those things. Nor did some other people's. Also, there isn't anything wrong with generalizations. Intelligent people make generalizations. The point of generalizations is that they're generally true, but not necessarily true of everyone. It's not complex. If someone said "all muslims are evil" that would be an overgeneralization, but I never see anyone say that on here. I certainly have never said anything like that; my criticisms have never been any worse than anything Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins has said. They're hardly well known for being far-right racists.

Another user just posted some nasty verses of the Qu'ran and switched the bits that say "unbeliever" with "muslims", and even that got deleted. Clearly you're OK with people posting Islamic quotes that say horrible things about non-believers, but god forbid someone edit those same quotes to say the same things about Muslims.

Also, sometimes you delete people's posts when all they're doing is just stating facts about who Muhammad was supposed to have been according to Islamic scriptures. Numerous times I've seen you delete posts that mention the fact that Muhammad was a child molester, a wife beater, and a mass murderer, despite the fact that all of those things are just exactly what he is depicted as being in the Bukhari Hadith. Thus you are not interested in stopping unjustified abuse, you're interested in controlling information.


Exactly this tbh
Reply 50
Original post by TSR Mustafa
Your entitled to your own opinion , what i don't understand is why you spend hours bashing religions on a student forum.


Because it's one place where people can actually freely discuss things with out the terrible stigma that will be put upon them if they do so in real life.
Original post by demx9
I don't understand, why shouldn't this be allowed if the followers have a set of moral values so diametrically opposed to ours ?


Because a) It is quite unpleasant for the followers of the religion who are members of this website, saying that they are unwelcome here. Even when many will have been born in Europe, so this is their home as much as anyone else's. b) It is making a negative generalisation. People follow their religion in different ways. The vast majority just goes about their business, not harming anyone.
There is nothing wrong with hating religion. Religion is only a belief, beliefs do not have rights. However, when you start hating the followers of religion, that's when the problem arises. Unfortunately, people confuse hating religion with hating the followers, which of course, is ridiculous.
Original post by KingBradly
Urm, neither of my last posts that got deleted did any of those things. Nor did some other people's. Also, there isn't anything wrong with generalizations. Intelligent people make generalizations. The point of generalizations is that they're generally true, but not necessarily true of everyone. It's not complex. If someone said "all muslims are evil" that would be an overgeneralization, but I never see anyone say that on here. I certainly have never said anything like that; my criticisms have never been any worse than anything Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins has said. They're hardly well known for being far-right racists.

Another user just posted some nasty verses of the Qu'ran and switched the bits that say "unbeliever" with "muslims", and even that got deleted. Clearly you're OK with people posting Islamic quotes that say horrible things about non-believers, but god forbid someone edit those same quotes to say the same things about Muslims.

Also, sometimes you delete people's posts when all they're doing is just stating facts about who Muhammad was supposed to have been according to Islamic scriptures. Numerous times I've seen you delete posts that mention the fact that Muhammad was a child molester, and a mass murderer, despite the fact that all of those things are just exactly what he is depicted as being in the Bukhari Hadith. Thus you are not interested in stopping unjustified abuse, you're interested in controlling information.


First of all, Support Team members aren't really involved in active moderation any longer. So when you say "you", you are referring to the Community Team. I am not familiar with your other posts. If you think posts of yours have been wrongfully deleted, the best thing to do is to ask about it in Ask the CT. I don't actually even have Support Team permissions in News and Current Affairs, so the most I could do is the same as any other member - if I happen to spot something that breaks the rules of the site, I can report it for the CT to look into.

When I was involved in active moderation, before the changes, I got accused of being Islamophobic, as well as being too pro-Islam. Same as I was accused of being a racist, as well as a white supremacist, a feminazi and a woman hater, and so on. That is because people tend to notice when you take action against rule-breaks that support their view, but don't really notice when you take action against rule-breaks of the opposite view. On top of that, this is a big site. I certainly don't read every thread. Don't think I could even if I were online 24/7. Same as other Support Team members or, indeed, the CT. That means that rule breaking posts can be overlooked, if nobody reports them.

It is certainly not okay for Muslim members to post hateful or insulting content aimed at non-Muslim members (or other Muslims), either, so if you see something of that nature, please do report.
Original post by Kittiara
First of all, Support Team members aren't really involved in active moderation any longer. So when you say "you", you are referring to the Community Team. I am not familiar with your other posts. If you think posts of yours have been wrongfully deleted, the best thing to do is to ask about it in Ask the CT. I don't actually even have Support Team permissions in News and Current Affairs, so the most I could do is the same as any other member - if I happen to spot something that breaks the rules of the site, I can report it for the CT to look into.

When I was involved in active moderation, before the changes, I got accused of being Islamophobic, as well as being too pro-Islam. Same as I was accused of being a racist, as well as a white supremacist, a feminazi and a woman hater, and so on. That is because people tend to notice when you take action against rule-breaks that support their view, but don't really notice when you take action against rule-breaks of the opposite view. On top of that, this is a big site. I certainly don't read every thread. Don't think I could even if I were online 24/7. Same as other Support Team members or, indeed, the CT. That means that rule breaking posts can be overlooked, if nobody reports them.

It is certainly not okay for Muslim members to post hateful or insulting content aimed at non-Muslim members (or other Muslims), either, so if you see something of that nature, please do report.


This is aimed at you. http://youtu.be/9jOqOlETcRU
Original post by MrKmas508
This is aimed at you. http://youtu.be/9jOqOlETcRU


Thank you, but I am not a cop, either. :tongue:
Reply 56
nothing wrong with hating a religion but some people when automatically think that you hate the people in that religion as well
Original post by abruiseonthesky
I get where you're coming from, but (as a kinda unrelated example) I don't act like all meat-eaters are inherently untrustworthy or whatever solely because they do something I believe is completely morally wrong, just as I'd want meat-eaters not to be suspicious of me because of those few militant/terrorist vegans.


So, what you're saying is that eating a chicken is as bad as forcing a nine year old to marry you?
Original post by TheCitizenAct
So, what you're saying is that eating a chicken is as bad as forcing a nine year old to marry you?


No - like I said, it was a bit of an unrelated example. It was more to illustrate that you can still trust people who subscribe to an ideology you hate, while hating that ideology. I hate the way our society and we as a species treat non-human animals like objects, unless we culturally see them as companion animals instead of food, but that doesn't mean I hate all meat-eaters. Same here. You can hate Islam (or, really, any religion) without hating all practitioners. And again, with another example which is topical atm, abortion. You can hate abortion without hating the doctors that perform it. An ideology is different to the people that practice it. The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is awful - but not all Christians take it literally. Same with Muslims.
Original post by KingBradly
If you don't like the ideology, if you don't like what it stands for, if you feel the values are completely contrary to your own, why shouldn't you hate a religion? It's perfectly reasonable. It's just the same as hating any other ideology.

Religion is not ideology, but rather formalization of religious belief. Religious belief is not rational, you can accept it or not. Expressing your hate towards religion you actually insult religious feelings of its followers. And they respond..

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