Should the UK bomb ISIS in SYRIA?

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Poll: Do you support Bombing ISIS in Syria?
Yes! (36)
40.91%
NO!!! (52)
59.09%
saxsan4
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Would you back David Cameron plan to Bomb ISIS in Syria?
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AlwaysWatching
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Yes.

If we are going to bomb them, we may as well bomb all of them. No point only doing half measures and bombing half their territory.

If the question was "should we bomb ISIS in Iraq and Syria" then my answer would be no.
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saxsan4
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(Original post by AlwaysWatching)
Yes.

If we are going to bomb them, we may as well bomb all of them. No point only doing half measures and bombing half their territory.

If the question was "should we bomb ISIS in Iraq and Syria" then my answer would be no.
but we have only 2-5 Planes ready... hardly a strong Military force
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zramazhar
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(Original post by saxsan4)
Would you back David Cameron plan to Bomb ISIS in Syria?
NO!!
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AlwaysWatching
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(Original post by saxsan4)
but we have only 2-5 Planes ready... hardly a strong Military force
Yeah I know. It's pathetic. But should either do it properly and take both sides, or not do it at all. Since we are already bombing ISIS, we may as well roll it out fully.
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zramazhar
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(Original post by saxsan4)
Would you back David Cameron plan to Bomb ISIS in Syria?
Isis is keeping civilians as “human shields”. Bombing ISIS means that innocent people may die!!
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AlwaysWatching
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(Original post by zramazhar)
Isis is keeping civilians as “human shields”. Bombing ISIS means that innocent people may die!!
Likewise, not bombing them also ensures that they will die. If they weren't valuable as human shields, they would have just simply be beheaded. Does the method matter if the outcome will be the same? They're dead anyway, why not use the opportunity to kill a few ISIS members when they go?
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Drewski
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I think we should have a poll on whether 400 identical threads are needed...
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Swanbow
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I support military action against ISIS.

However our strategy is flawed, and air strikes will not do major damage unless there are sufficient ground forces, either local or foreign, to combat ISIS and take their positions.
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zramazhar
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That's inhumane!! They are still innocent people! They didn't choose to be in that situation! How would bombing Syria help? Just because their lives are threatened by ISIS doesn't mean we should kill them as "they will (probably) die" in the hands of ISIS anyways!! I think more should be done to help the civilians in Syria!! Only then should Britain take action to get rid of ISIS once knowing that the civilians in Syria will not be harmed!!
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TheArtofProtest
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(Original post by AlwaysWatching)
Likewise, not bombing them also ensures that they will die. If they weren't valuable as human shields, they would have just simply be beheaded. Does the method matter if the outcome will be the same? They're dead anyway, why not use the opportunity to kill a few ISIS members when they go?
"My life in this world is not worth much so I might as well take a few non-Muslims when I go" - IS suicide bomber


Two sides, one coin.
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dmmed
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(Original post by AlwaysWatching)
Likewise, not bombing them also ensures that they will die. If they weren't valuable as human shields, they would have just simply be beheaded. Does the method matter if the outcome will be the same? They're dead anyway, why not use the opportunity to kill a few ISIS members when they go?
Suppose your mother was held captive by ISIS and a British jet obliterated her in a so called 'precise' air strike. How friendly would you feel towards the British government?

It's attitudes like yours that fuel the production of terrorists and terrorist actions.
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by zramazhar)
That's inhumane!! They are still innocent people! They didn't choose to be in that situation! How would bombing Syria help? Just because their lives are threatened by ISIS doesn't mean we should kill them as "they will (probably) die" in the hands of ISIS anyways!! I think more should be done to help the civilians in Syria!! Only then should Britain take action to get rid of ISIS once knowing that the civilians in Syria will not be harmed!!
Such a thing is impossible.

Also, at what point does someone become a civilian?

If they are a supporter of ISIS, are they a civilian?
If they are planning attacks overseas, are they a civilian?
If they a non-combatant, involved in the oppression and execution of ISIS' targets, are they a civilian?
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AlwaysWatching
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(Original post by dmmed)
Suppose your mother was held captive by ISIS and a British jet obliterated her in a so called 'precise' air strike. How friendly would you feel towards the British government?

It's attitudes like yours that fuel the production of terrorists and terrorist actions.
Truthfully, I'd ask the PM to drone her. She's dead anyway. I'd rather her have a quick death than her being tortured, raped and then burnt alive, and I know that is what she would want.
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AlwaysWatching
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(Original post by TheArtofProtest)
"My life in this world is not worth much so I might as well take a few non-Muslims when I go" - IS suicide bomber


Two sides, one coin.
Apart from the hostage isn't the one blowing itself up. The British government is doing the killing. Your analogy is a poor one.

A civilian hostage in the hands of ISIS, if western, is dead unless they can escape. If you cant send special forces in, you may as well shorten their suffering and at the same time take out a few more ISIS combatants. That way they won't be able to repeat the kidnapping.
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zramazhar
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
Such a thing is impossible.

Also, at what point does someone become a civilian?

If they are a supporter of ISIS, are they a civilian?
If they are planning attacks overseas, are they a civilian?
If they a non-combatant, involved in the oppression and execution of ISIS' targets, are they a civilian?
They may not be a supporter of ISIS!
They may not be planning attacks overseas!
They may be normal people who got caught up in the middle of this!

I agree we cannot know who is a civilian and who is with ISIS! But this shows that it would be wrong to start bombing because there may be a possibility that some people may actually be innocent!! Some CIVILIANS may be ordinary people trying to live an ordinary life! How is it any of their fault??
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TheArtofProtest
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(Original post by AlwaysWatching)
Apart from the hostage isn't the one blowing itself up. The British government is doing the killing. Your analogy is a poor one.

A civilian hostage in the hands of ISIS, if western, is dead unless they can escape. If you cant send special forces in, you may as well shorten their suffering and at the same time take out a few more ISIS combatants. That way they won't be able to repeat the kidnapping.
You do realize that bombing a terrorist group will attract more of them to the cause of IS?
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AlwaysWatching
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(Original post by TheArtofProtest)
You do realize that bombing a terrorist group will attract more of them to the cause of IS?
Evidence?

If a man is fanatical enough to be attracted to joining ISIS, he would have joined long before any airstrike. I'm also very sceptical of the idea of men simply joining ISIS (where once they have been fleeing from them in horror and terror) simply because a family member got caught up in an airstrike. The real world doesn't work like that. Again, if they had any sympathy for ISIS, the turning point would have been long before a relative got killed in an airstrike.

People don't just join the British Army because their brother got shot by the Taliban. People don't simply just join the IRA because their cousin got shot by the British. They may join those organisations, but the for a variety of reasons, not simply because of one event. They would have had sympathies long before.

Moreover, the civilian death toll isn't high enough to cause a massive recruitment boost for ISIS, and it won't be with the amount of planes we are going to contribute, even if they directly targeted civilians, which they don't anyway.
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saxsan4
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(Original post by dmmed)
Suppose your mother was held captive by ISIS and a British jet obliterated her in a so called 'precise' air strike. How friendly would you feel towards the British government?

It's attitudes like yours that fuel the production of terrorists and terrorist actions.
I would want her to be killed so she can't be raped anymore
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by zramazhar)
They may not be a supporter of ISIS!
They may not be planning attacks overseas!
They may be normal people who got caught up in the middle of this!
I am saying IF, any of these cases are true, what does it mean for their status of civilianhood. So if they are a support of ISIS: they are a supporter of ISIS.

There are undoubtedly examples of the above in Syria. My question is whether you would consider them civilians or not.

(Original post by zramazhar)
I agree we cannot know who is a civilian and who is with ISIS! But this shows that it would be wrong to start bombing because there may be a possibility that some people may actually be innocent!! Some CIVILIANS may be ordinary people trying to live an ordinary life! How is it any of their fault??
There will, without a doubt, be innocent people dying in these attacks. But these people cannot be reasoned with, and they will not simply give up. They will continue their engine of destruction until they are stopped by force, and kicked out of their macho hollywood dream.
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