Do you need a Masters to do a PhD??

Watch
This discussion is closed.
The Boosh
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#21
Report 14 years ago
#21
(Original post by lorrybeep)
Yes exactly. Oxford vs Hull. You're likely to get fundings at Hull than Oxford for the apparent reason.

I do not know many people without a degree at Oxford who also skipped masters get accepted to do PhD at Oxford. So maybe you could tell us a little about the situation out there. What course you're doing and what is required to get a place at Oxford without masters if thats what you did in the first place?
if you look at the research council studentship distribution tables you will find that many universities way below oxford in those crappy league tables get studentships (denoting the quality of the applicants - the open comp proposals are peer reviewed). also, at postgrad, it doesnt matter what your busa or alevel or staff:student or 'value added' scores are. the quality of the teaching and research is central, hence why new universitise have quotas in subjects beating the older universities.
0
lorrybeep
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#22
Report 14 years ago
#22
(Original post by The Boosh)
if you look at the research council studentship distribution tables you will find that many universities way below oxford in those crappy league tables get studentships (denoting the quality of the applicants - the open comp proposals are peer reviewed). also, at postgrad, it doesnt matter what your busa or alevel or staff:student or 'value added' scores are. the quality of the teaching and research is central, hence why new universitise have quotas in subjects beating the older universities.
All unis offer studentships/fundings to students, its just a matter of more or less and how competitive it is at the place where you are to get the fundings. Its somehow wrong to say that oxbridge are holding less studentships than crappier unis. In fact oxbridge, lse top the league tables of unis receive most research grants. It's just harder to get fundings if you had to compete with a class of oxbridge students to be put forward as a potential candidate. Thats why a lot of oxbridge graduates end up doing their PhD somewhere else where they get full fundings.
0
ChemistBoy
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#23
Report 14 years ago
#23
(Original post by lorrybeep)
All unis offer studentships/fundings to students, its just a matter of more or less and how competitive it is at the place where you are to get the fundings. Its somehow wrong to say that oxbridge are holding less studentships than crappier unis. In fact oxbridge, lse top the league tables of unis receive most research grants. It's just harder to get fundings if you had to compete with a class of oxbridge students to be put forward as a potential candidate. Thats why a lot of oxbridge graduates end up doing their PhD somewhere else where they get full fundings.
The research councils are central they decide who gets the money, the competition is to the same authority so how it can be more competitive at one institution compared to another doesn't seem to make sense. More people at oxbridge go onto further study, which would imply that the university does put forward more candidates.

I would be very interested to see the league table that puts LSE as the 3rd most funded university in the UK given that it doesn't do sciences.
0
the_alba
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#24
Report 14 years ago
#24
Lorrybeep, why do you keep calling it 'fundings'?

Anyway, I asked you if snobbery was your problem and you said 'yes, exactly', which is pretty demented. More people get funding in Oxford than in places like Hull for the simple reason that Oxford is a huge university, much bigger than Hull, and many more people apply. It is not harder for them to secure funding, and neither is it easier - they have the same chance as anyone else, as what matters is the quality of your research project and the suitability of the institution you are applying to. I have no idea what your basing your opinions on, unless it's just a - yawn - groundless Oxbridge complex. Get a grip.
0
The Boosh
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#25
Report 14 years ago
#25
(Original post by lorrybeep)
All unis offer studentships/fundings to students, its just a matter of more or less and how competitive it is at the place where you are to get the fundings. Its somehow wrong to say that oxbridge are holding less studentships than crappier unis. In fact oxbridge, lse top the league tables of unis receive most research grants. It's just harder to get fundings if you had to compete with a class of oxbridge students to be put forward as a potential candidate. Thats why a lot of oxbridge graduates end up doing their PhD somewhere else where they get full fundings.
what?!?! are you mad???? not all departments have studentships i assure you. where on earth have you been getting this information from? this is getting wierder by the moment.
0
ChemistBoy
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#26
Report 14 years ago
#26
(Original post by the_alba)
Lorrybeep, why do you keep calling it 'fundings'?
She's french I believe. No major hassle, we all know what she means.
0
The Boosh
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#27
Report 14 years ago
#27
(Original post by ChemistBoy)
She's french I believe. No major hassle, we all know what she means.
...something to do with chuck?
0
lorrybeep
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#28
Report 13 years ago
#28
(Original post by The Boosh)
what?!?! are you mad???? not all departments have studentships i assure you. where on earth have you been getting this information from? this is getting wierder by the moment.
LOL ! since when did I say 'all departments'? I said all unis didnt I, plus there are many external ones.

ChemistBoy, I read the league table sometime back. I think it was the total research grant distribution regardless subjects. LSE don't do science, but econ and social science.

the_alba,
There are many sources of fundings - internal and external. If you're a decent candidate trying to get 'fundings' from oxford and another uni of more or less equal size, you're more likely to get fundings from this lesser known uni, simple because of the sheer amount of candidates out there in oxford you will have to compete with. you're saying it's no easier getting fundings from a lesser known uni nor harder - the same person who gets fundings in uni X will get fundings in Oxford? The fact that departments have to put forward the best candidates they have got says a lot about competition. The departments or unis often have scholarships for their own students too - being the best at Hull doesn't make you the best at Oxford.

No snobbery wasn't my prob at all, sounded more like yours - ' I go to Oxford and you don't, therefore shut the h*** up'. It's not really 'Oxford' we are talking about here, it could be any uni. Why should I get a grip when you're the one fails to provide evidence to backup your saying? When I was the one speaking politely when you don't agree? Maybe you aren't at Oxford or you must doing a different sort of degree? Zoology perhaps. My mates at Oxford have good manners, but then they are decent french men so thats why.
0
The Boosh
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#29
Report 13 years ago
#29
i dont get your point, since most studentships are department specific.

what doctoral studentship do you have, lorry beep?
0
ChemistBoy
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#30
Report 13 years ago
#30
(Original post by lorrybeep)
ChemistBoy, I read the league table sometime back. I think it was the total research grant distribution regardless subjects. LSE don't do science, but econ and social science.
I can't see how LSE can win so much money considering they don't offer physical or biological/health sciences or engineering. I somehow doubt that LSE is above universities such as manchester in total research income generated. Certainly they receive the most funding in their area of expertise but that is not what you are claiming.

The fact that departments have to put forward the best candidates they have got says a lot about competition. The departments or unis often have scholarships for their own students too - being the best at Hull doesn't make you the best at Oxford.
Care to give some examples. I certainly have never seen a PhD Studentship which is only available to graduates of a particular institution.
0
the_alba
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#31
Report 13 years ago
#31
(Original post by lorrybeep)
LOL ! since when did I say 'all departments'? I said all unis didnt I, plus there are many external ones.

ChemistBoy, I read the league table sometime back. I think it was the total research grant distribution regardless subjects. LSE don't do science, but econ and social science.

the_alba,
There are many sources of fundings - internal and external. If you're a decent candidate trying to get 'fundings' from oxford and another uni of more or less equal size, you're more likely to get fundings from this lesser known uni, simple because of the sheer amount of candidates out there in oxford you will have to compete with. you're saying it's no easier getting fundings from a lesser known uni nor harder - the same person who gets fundings in uni X will get fundings in Oxford? The fact that departments have to put forward the best candidates they have got says a lot about competition. The departments or unis often have scholarships for their own students too - being the best at Hull doesn't make you the best at Oxford.

No snobbery wasn't my prob at all, sounded more like yours - ' I go to Oxford and you don't, therefore shut the h*** up'. It's not really 'Oxford' we are talking about here, it could be any uni. Why should I get a grip when you're the one fails to provide evidence to backup your saying? When I was the one speaking politely when you don't agree? Maybe you aren't at Oxford or you must doing a different sort of degree? Zoology perhaps. My mates at Oxford have good manners, but then they are decent french men so thats why.
Excuse me, but you are the one who keeps saying the best Hull student is thick compared to the Oxford student. Having been a student at both universities, I can say your theories are baseless and stupid. I have never met with this kind of snobbery in Oxford, but find it quite frequently among non-Oxbridge people, bizarrely enough. Two of my friends at Oxford doing DPhils in English do not have Master's, and weren't undergrads here either. There are no PhD scholarships in my subject at Oxford, and there are at Hull - so competition really has nothing to do with it. You are making generalisations based on a lack of real experience of departmental funding. Your basic point was that you have to be genius to skip a Master's, unless you go to somewhere like Hull, in which case you can be average. I'm saying, on the contrary, that you don't have to be a genius to skip a Master's - in Oxford, Hull, or anywhere. It's down to the opportunities offered by individual departments.

EDIT. I'd just like to add that the words 'I go to Oxford and you don't, so shut the **** up' are ones I would never ever ever say, as anyone who knows me on here could verify. There's nothing I hate more than Oxford snobbery. That's why I'm trying to defend Hull here, fergodsake!
0
The Boosh
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#32
Report 13 years ago
#32
(Original post by the_alba)
Excuse me, but you are the one who keeps saying the best Hull student is thick compared to the Oxford student. Having been a student at both universities, I can say your theories are baseless and stupid. I have never met with this kind of snobbery in Oxford, but find it quite frequently among non-Oxbridge people, bizarrely enough. Two of my friends at Oxford doing DPhils in English do not have Master's, and weren't undergrads here either. There are no PhD scholarships in my subject at Oxford, and there are at Hull - so competition really has nothing to do with it. You are making generalisations based on a lack of real experience of departmental funding. Your basic point was that you have to be genius to skip a Master's, unless you go to somewhere like Hull, in which case you can be average. I'm saying, on the contrary, that you don't have to be a genius to skip a Master's - in Oxford, Hull, or anywhere. It's down to the opportunities offered by individual departments.

EDIT. I'd just like to add that the words 'I go to Oxford and you don't, so shut the **** up' are ones I would never ever ever say, as anyone who knows me on here could verify. There's nothing I hate more than Oxford snobbery. That's why I'm trying to defend Hull here, fergodsake!
very well said.
0
lucho22
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#33
Report 13 years ago
#33
(Original post by lorrybeep)
Most people are required to have done masters degrees before applying for their PhD studies, as you will see this is often the standard requirement by many top unis including oxbridge,lse,ucl,warwick.etc. Although having said that, there are some exceptional top performers offered to do PhDs on scholarships before they even graduate. In that case you can go directly from your bachelors to phds, but of course the decision is in the discretion of professors who are the people to offer you scholarships. Being top performer, we are talking about a very good first class here and the top of class.
I'm pretty sure you can just apply for PRS (Probationer Research Student) status at Oxford meaning you just go to a few Master's seminars etc but are promoted straight from BA to DPhil status.. My father's friend went straight from St Andrews MA (Hons) - First Class - to do his DPhil in Comparative Literature at Wadham Oxford..
0
mastersapplicant
Badges: 0
#34
Report 13 years ago
#34
(Original post by the_alba)
I'd just like to add that the words 'I go to Oxford and you don't, so shut the **** up' are ones I would never ever ever say, as anyone who knows me on here could verify. There's nothing I hate more than Oxford snobbery. That's why I'm trying to defend Hull here, fergodsake!
That's often the problem with Oxford students, that the superiority complex is always at least implicit even if it is not explicit. You feel superior even if you don't say it, and probably doubly superior because you believe you are doing people a favour (like Hull students) by not boasting about it. Some people may find that patronising. :mad:
0
stoney
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#35
Report 13 years ago
#35
(Original post by mastersapplicant)
That's often the problem with Oxford students, that the superiority complex is always at least implicit even if it is not explicit. You feel superior even if you don't say it, and probably doubly superior because you believe you are doing people a favour (like Hull students) by not boasting about it. Some people may find that patronising. :mad:
so Oxford students can do nothing to redeem themselves? if they're snobs they're hated and if they're altruistic they're patronising? My god they really can't win, the poor girl is just trying to show that she isn't being a snob and doesn't think like that!

back on topic this is something I would like to know about. Is it true that this is a more normal/acceptable route in the sciences? (because obvoiusly that would bode well with me/any future plans being a computer scientist).

edit: sorry for the potential hi-jack!
0
ChemistBoy
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#36
Report 13 years ago
#36
(Original post by stoney)
back on topic this is something I would like to know about. Is it true that this is a more normal/acceptable route in the sciences? (because obvoiusly that would bode well with me/any future plans being a computer scientist).
It is usually straight to PhD from undergrad.
0
the_alba
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#37
Report 13 years ago
#37
(Original post by mastersapplicant)
That's often the problem with Oxford students, that the superiority complex is always at least implicit even if it is not explicit. You feel superior even if you don't say it, and probably doubly superior because you believe you are doing people a favour (like Hull students) by not boasting about it. Some people may find that patronising. :mad:
Terribly sorry, mate. I didn't know going to Oxford was so offensive and inherently patronising to everyone who has the good fortune not to be an Oxford student. I'll bear this in mind next time I try doing anyone any favours, like those poor Hull students you mention. Oh, and by the way, I was an undergrad at Hull. Take your Oxbridge complex elsewhere.
0
TheEntertainer
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#38
Report 13 years ago
#38
So basically I could have a B.Sc. and then directly study to get a PhD?
Does this also apply to students who did their undergrad studies abroad ?
0
Mr Wednesday
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#39
Report 4 days ago
#39
(Original post by Eileen Magnello)
Dear Jim,If you want to do a PhD in a British University, then I would highly recommend that you do a Masters degree first. An undergraduate degree will not give you the essential academic tools to do a PhD. Moreover, it’s highly unusual for any university nowadays In the UK to accept an undergraduate student who applies to do a PhD. Whilst some undergraduates have applied with just an undergraduate degree, once they realise the enormity of the work involved, they either leave or end up doing a Masters degree only. British universities are in the middle of updating requirements for various degrees and are in the process of adopting the American system where a Masters degree will be a sine-qua-non to apply to do a PhD. There was a time about 30 to 40 years ago when undergraduate students applied to do a PhD. But much of that changed at Oxford and Cambridge in the mid-to late-1990s when a Masters degree became a requirement to do a PhD.Have you read any PhD theses? You will get a much better understanding of the sheer amount of work that is necessary to do. Many PhD theses are now online; hence, it wouldn’t be a bad idea if you read a PhD thesis on British Politics, on post-war British politics or the birth of Labour Party. There are many PhD theses on the latter that have been turned into books. You will need to find a topic that is completely original. You might also want to talk to an academic in universities that you’d like to attend. They will give you a good sense of what’s required to do a PhD on some aspect of politics.At any rate. The two essential requirements to successfully finish a PhD is determination and tenacity as well as money to pay university fees along with rent and food. You might want to look at funding at the Open University. Otherwise you should look on the Internet.Good luck! Eileen Dear Jim,If you want to do a PhD in a British University, then I would highly recommend that you do a Masters degree first. An undergraduate degree will not give you the essential academic tools to do a PhD. Moreover, it’s highly unusual for any university nowadays In the UK to accept an undergraduate student who applies to do a PhD. Whilst some undergraduates have applied with just an undergraduate degree, once they realise the enormity of the work involved, they either leave or end up doing a Masters degree only. British universities are in the middle of updating requirements for various degrees and are in the process of adopting the American system where a Masters degree will be a sine-qua-non to apply to do a PhD. There was a time about 30 to 40 years ago when undergraduate students applied to do a PhD. But much of that changed at Oxford and Cambridge in the mid-to late-1990s when a Masters degree became a requirement to do a PhD.Have you read any PhD theses? You will get a much better understanding of the sheer amount of work that is necessary to do. Many PhD theses are now online; hence, it wouldn’t be a bad idea if you read a PhD thesis on British Politics or on post-war British politics or the birth of Labour Party. There are many PhD theses on the latter that have been turned into books. You will need to find a topic that is completely original.At any rate. The two essential requirements to successfully finish a PhD is determination and tenacity as well as money to pay university fees along with rent and food. You might want to look at funding at the Open University. Otherwise you should look on the Internet.Good luck! Eileen Sent from the all-new AOL app for iOS
Timing and paragraphs ? The OP was 13 Years ago.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

What would make a great online university open day?

Virtual campus tour (68)
18.53%
Virtual accommodation tour (53)
14.44%
Find out about sports clubs, societies and facilities (17)
4.63%
Video content about the local area (4)
1.09%
Webinars with lecturers (11)
3%
Taster lectures or seminars (79)
21.53%
Speak to current students studying my course (84)
22.89%
Speak to current students about the uni in general (16)
4.36%
Fun online activities or experiences (13)
3.54%
Connecting with careers services or employers (8)
2.18%
Info about student wellbeing and support services (6)
1.63%
Something else (let us know in the thread!) (8)
2.18%

Watched Threads

View All