Why does Christianity align itself with a capitalist greedy Christmas??

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Bill_Gates
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#1
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#1
Why does Christianity align itself with a capitalist Christmas??

Like it goes against what Jesus stood for?
- Greed
- Exploitation
- Gluttony
- Materialism
- Debt
- Self interest
etc

The list goes on. Another reason why less are going to Churches?
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Bill_Gates
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#2
Bump!
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Scrappy-coco
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#3
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#3
(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Why does Christianity align itself with a capitalist Christmas??

Like it goes against what Jesus stood for?
- Greed
- Exploitation
- Gluttony
- Materialism
- Debt
- Self interest
etc

The list goes on. Another reason why less are going to Churches?
I think Christians would try and separate real Christmas from capitalist Christmas. Its just that cultural Christians outweigh the more devout.

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Plagioclase
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#4
(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Why does Christianity align itself with a capitalist Christmas??

Like it goes against what Jesus stood for?
- Greed
- Exploitation
- Gluttony
- Materialism
- Debt
- Self interest
etc

The list goes on. Another reason why less are going to Churches?
Does it? It wasn't my impression that religious institutions support the commercialisation of Christmas.
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scrotgrot
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#5
(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Why does Christianity align itself with a capitalist Christmas??

Like it goes against what Jesus stood for?
- Greed
- Exploitation
- Gluttony
- Materialism
- Debt
- Self interest
etc

The list goes on. Another reason why less are going to Churches?
It's meant to be about the giving of gifts. That was how I was brought up to regard it in a C of E school/community.

If anything it's consumerism that has aligned with a Christian festival to promote consumer spending.

It wasn't long ago at all that the best you got in your stocking was an orange.
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MrKmas508
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#6
Capitalist greedy Christmas is a modern day phenomenon so why would Christians get rid of Christmas just because of something new that's been added to it. I personally know a Christian (his parents are black African if that's relevant) who doesn't get any presents for Christmas, he just goes to Church then has a nice meal. Capitalism isn't that bad in itself and although its greedy and wasteful it's the system that keeps this country rich. You can be both capitalist and Christian.
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Bill_Gates
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#7
(Original post by Scrappy-coco)
I think Christians would try and separate real Christmas from capitalist Christmas. Its just that cultural Christians outweigh the more devout.

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(Original post by Plagioclase)
Does it? It wasn't my impression that religious institutions support the commercialisation of Christmas.
Tbh if i followed Christianity i wouldn't want it to be aligned with what we have on the 25th now. I would openly reject it. I don't see that today. Everyone is with the status quo.
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Plagioclase
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#8
(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Tbh if i followed Christianity i wouldn't want it to be aligned with what we have on the 25th now. I would openly reject it. I don't see that today. Everyone is with the status quo.
I can't claim to be an expert but I'm pretty sure the various denominations of Christianity frequently send out messages encouraging people to focus on the real meaning of these festivals. Clearly, most people ignore that but you can't really blame the Church for that.
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Bill_Gates
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(Original post by Plagioclase)
I can't claim to be an expert but I'm pretty sure the various denominations of Christianity frequently send out messages encouraging people to focus on the real meaning of these festivals. Clearly, most people ignore that but you can't really blame the Church for that.
Tbh i haven't seen it myself. Everyone goes along with the plan. Plus it's pretty hypocritical in that sense. Plus even when they talk out against banking when they have their own asset managers etc.
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troubadour.
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Because the people you refer to as 'Christianity' (which I take to mean 'devout Christians') like presents too?
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Bill_Gates
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#11
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#11
other religions take more control over how their days are celebrated.
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aamirac
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#12
Well the candle is lit and it's advent. But I do think that there needs to be more focus on the real reason behind Christmas rather than the material focus it tends to have.
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iamthetruth
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#13
It's very simple. Christianity is dead in the west.
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Tootles
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#14
(Original post by aamirac)
Well the candle is lit and it's advent. But I do think that there needs to be more focus on the real reason behind Christmas rather than the material focus it tends to have.
You'll find that people who are Christian by faith, rather than by religion, tend to focus more on the real purpose of Advent and Christmas.
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scrotgrot
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(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Tbh i haven't seen it myself. Everyone goes along with the plan. Plus it's pretty hypocritical in that sense. Plus even when they talk out against banking when they have their own asset managers etc.
Christians aren't really against banking, they like Muslims are just against usury. Historically Christians thought any interest was usury the same as Muslims do now, but now they just think excessive interest/exploitative practices is. Seems fair enough when Islamic banking is fine with other schemes that technically aren't interest-bearing but in practice it amounts to the same thing.

And Christians aren't necessarily against people being rich, they are just against the single-minded pursuit of money and the exploitative and self-aggrandising use of money. Unfortunately the Christian position is that money corrupts and that, rather than his wealth per se, is why it is harder for a rich man to get into heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of the needle.
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Bill_Gates
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#16
(Original post by scrotgrot)
Christians aren't really against banking, they like Muslims are just against usury. Historically Christians thought any interest was usury the same as Muslims do now, but now they just think excessive interest/exploitative practices is. Seems fair enough when Islamic banking is fine with other schemes that technically aren't interest-bearing but in practice it amounts to the same thing.

And Christians aren't necessarily against people being rich, they are just against the single-minded pursuit of money and the exploitative and self-aggrandising use of money. Unfortunately the Christian position is that money corrupts and that, rather than his wealth per se, is why it is harder for a rich man to get into heaven than a camel to pass through the eye of the needle.
Muslims have not accepted interest bearing loans. Fair play to them.

I'd say our society today (in the west) goes largely against Christian traditional values. Majority have turned a blind eye to this.
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scrotgrot
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#17
(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Muslims have not accepted interest bearing loans. Fair play to them.

I'd say our society today (in the west) goes largely against Christian traditional values. Majority have turned a blind eye to this.
Yes bit it is doctrinaire on the issue (same on many issues). They think opposing interest bearing loans is enough to mean that none of their banking is sinful. But if other schemes produce the exact same effects and incentives in lenders and borrowers surely it is still sinful.

We might then say the present rewriting of tax laws in broad "don't be evil" terms to combat avoidance is like the second coming of Jesus. Christianity was revolutionary because it abandoned doctrinaire rule-following in favour of "don't be evil".

Of course I agree that society has turned away from Christian values; and on things like social security and the family, all the better, too. However there remains, in my view, an undercurrent of post-Christian thought underlying European law, culture, customs, philosophy that we don't see because it is so pervasive.
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aamirac
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#18
(Original post by Tootles)
You'll find that people who are Christian by faith, rather than by religion, tend to focus more on the real purpose of Advent and Christmas.
I know that. But it would be nicer to see a clearer assosiation/awareness rather than the materialistic side of things.
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Betelgeuse-
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#19
(Original post by Bill_Gates)
Why does Christianity align itself with a capitalist Christmas??

Like it goes against what Jesus stood for?
- Greed
- Exploitation
- Gluttony
- Materialism
- Debt
- Self interest
etc

The list goes on. Another reason why less are going to Churches?
Because its gets to align itself with all the things which people actually like. Food, fun, presents, time off work and so forth
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queen-bee
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#20
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#20
Greedy, opportunists have capitalised on the religious festival of Christmas,* but this is an entirely different proposition :mrssanta:
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