Trump is an idiot- but so are half his detractors. Watch

Davij038
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So the worlds high and mighty have become obsessed by some colourful comments made by Mr Trump. Some of the main ones that caught my eye were JK Rowling commenting that he was 'worse than Voldemort' and of course a Mr Corbyn saying that his comments were an 'affront to democracy and Humanity' (he should have a look at what went on in the Tower Hamlets!)

I think Donald's probably a lot of things but a child killing fascist is not yet amongst them. Maybe then Corbyn might invite him round for tea but then again, he's a white Christian so probably not...

Which goes towards my main point Trump is an utter hypocrite- there have been plenty of Christian shooting sprees but nobodies going to monitor the Jesus brigade for it-(they probably should: it might explain why they're so messed up). Ah but reasoned debate and common sense is no way near as fun for the Twitter generation who wouldn't recognise a fascist if one sat on them.






Respect to Bernie Sanders for not joining this histrionic tirade of mass virtue signalling.
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Aj12
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It is really driving me somewhat crazy the use and abuse of the word Fascist. I don't think I have ever seen someone use it in the correct setting anywhere on the internet. It has become a byword for any sort of extremest, with no regard for the actual definition. Trump is not a fascist because he thinks Mexicans are rapists and Muslims need to be deported.

As for Trump's hypocrisy, the man used to be anti-guns, pro abortion and a democrat. He's self serving and nothing more. It would't shock me if his whole campaign started off as a bet or because he was bored. In the utter worst case, he'll somehow win the Republican Primary and get destroyed by Clinton, but I doubt he'll get even that far.
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username878267
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(Original post by Aj12)
It is really driving me somewhat crazy the use and abuse of the word Fascist. I don't think I have ever seen someone use it in the correct setting anywhere on the internet. It has become a byword for any sort of extremest, with no regard for the actual definition. Trump is not a fascist because he thinks Mexicans are rapists and Muslims need to be deported.
It happens on all sides though. The left call the right fascists and racists the right call anyone left of centre communists and terrorist sympathisers.
I don't think I've seen anyone use socialist in the correct context either.

Other examples, the left call right wing folk greedy and selfish, the right call the left jealous and bitter etc.

We all engage in it but it ruins genuine discussion.

It's a bit like the folk who call Corbyn an extremist m, an idealist yes, but he's not exactly a suicide bomber or a white supremacist is he. Save the term for the most heinous of people.


I also didn't know trump was a democrat?!
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username878267
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(Original post by Davij038)
So the worlds high and mighty have become obsessed by some colourful comments made by Mr Trump. Some of the main ones that caught my eye were JK Rowling commenting that he was 'worse than Voldemort' and of course a Mr Corbyn saying that his comments were an 'affront to democracy and Humanity' (he should have a look at what went on in the Tower Hamlets!)

I think Donald's probably a lot of things but a child killing fascist is not yet amongst them. Maybe then Corbyn might invite him round for tea but then again, he's a white Christian so probably not...

Which goes towards my main point Trump is an utter hypocrite- there have been plenty of Christian shooting sprees but nobodies going to monitor the Jesus brigade for it-(they probably should: it might explain why they're so messed up). Ah but reasoned debate and common sense is no way near as fun for the Twitter generation who wouldn't recognise a fascist if one sat on them.






Respect to Bernie Sanders for not joining this histrionic tirade of mass virtue signalling.
To be fair he has said the following:
All Muslims should be banned from the USA
He saw Muslims in America celebrating 9/11 (not a hit of evidence)
He wants every Muslim to wear an ID badge and monitor all Mosques.

I think the word 'racist' is branded about far too much, but there's no escaping it for trump. He is, clearly.

Then you throw in the fact he accused the Mexican government of sending rapists and criminals to America (again without a jot of evidence).

I don't think he's a fascist, but his views on Muslims make him exceptionally racist.
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BookBird
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#feelthebern
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Aj12
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(Original post by Bornblue)
It happens on all sides though. The left call the right fascists and racists the right call anyone left of centre communists and terrorist sympathisers.
I don't think I've seen anyone use socialist in the correct context either.

Other examples, the left call right wing folk greedy and selfish, the right call the left jealous and bitter etc.

We all engage in it but it ruins genuine discussion.

It's a bit like the folk who call Corbyn an extremist m, an idealist yes, but he's not exactly a suicide bomber or a white supremacist is he. Save the term for the most heinous of people.


I also didn't know trump was a democrat?!
Maybe calling him a democrat is too far. But he has made donations to the party at various points and when he was considering running for President back in the late 90s he incorporated universal health care as part of his platform. That bid never got past the exploratory phase though. It's bizarre that he is seen as some sort of Republican messiah when you look at his political history. It's all over the map. Given how flipflopping crippled Romney I'm struggling to see how trump has so easily dodged the issue.

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username878267
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(Original post by Aj12)
Maybe calling him a democrat is too far. But he has made donations to the party at various points and when he was considering running for President back in the late 90s he incorporated universal health care as part of his platform. That bid never got past the exploratory phase though. It's bizarre that he is seen as some sort of Republican messiah when you look at his political history. It's all over the map. Given how flipflopping crippled Romney I'm struggling to see how trump has so easily dodged the issue.

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But like Farage, he gets seen as standing up to the establishment, representing the little guy.

I'm interested as to where you stand on the political spectrum mate? I would guess a softy Tory who used to be a blair voter judging off your posts?
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Aj12
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(Original post by Bornblue)
But like Farage, he gets seen as standing up to the establishment, representing the little guy.

I'm interested as to where you stand on the political spectrum mate? I would guess a softy Tory who used to be a blair voter judging off your posts?
Not that either would do that remotely.

Something like that, I only became interested in politics just after Brown took over so I can't say if I'd vote for Blair or not. But judging from the state of the Tories then I think it is likely. I'd call myself a Conservative voter but never a paid up member and I dislike some of what comes out of the party and government, views on immigration and social issues for one.

Assuming you put any faith in it this is where I come out on the political spectrum test.

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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Aj12)
Trump is not a fascist because he thinks Mexicans are rapists and Muslims need to be deported.
But he probably is a fascist for suggesting that he would (he can't) change the sentence for murder of a police officer throughout the USA by executive order.
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Aj12
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
But he probably is a fascist for suggesting that he would (he can't) change the sentence for murder of a police officer throughout the USA by executive order.
Why would you call that Fascist though? Extremely authoritarian, and playing to an extremely conservative base, but not Fascist.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Aj12)
Why would you call that Fascist though? Extremely authoritarian, and playing to an extremely conservative base, but not Fascist.
If you look at Eco's touchstones of fascism

http://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf

Trump really does tick all or virtually all the boxes

What was missing until his comments about police murderers was the authoritarianism that is a sine qua non of fascism.
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Aj12
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
If you look at Eco's touchstones of fascism

http://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf

Trump really does tick all or virtually all the boxes

What was missing until his comments about police murderers was the authoritarianism that is a sine qua non of fascism.
I've had look through it, granted this is based on Italian Fascism. So we have:

Charismatic leader, check

Corporatism, failing to see that in Trump

The utopia of Rome, not there but not relevant either, I'll come back to this theme

Imperialist will, not seeing that in Trump either. He wants to respond to threats with massive over kill, but nothing like Hitler's Lebensraum, or Italian attempts to rebuild the Roman empire

Exacerbated Nationalism, linked in to the idea about Rome. I'll come back to this too but Trump only partial qualifies.

Rejection of Democracy, not seeing it. If anything his rhetoric about running as an independent is more democratic than the current two party system

Anti (Something) Well yes he clearly is a racist, I don't think he has the organisation or the will to institutionalise anything on the scale of Hitler. But then neither did Mussolini or Franco so another partial.

Cult of tradition, rejection of the modern world, not seeing it.

Irrationlism, a gigantic tick.

Derives from individual or social frustration, yes but as does any extreme movement.

Life lived for struggle, nope.

I am also failing to the see the militarisation that goes along with fascist groups.

On the nationalist element I don't think many truly comprehend how integral this is to fascism and how it is where many potential candidates fall down. The best definition of Fascism I have ever seen was this Palingenetic ultranationalism. It is the idea that there needs to be a national rebirth, that the state needs to be completely sheared down to the core and rebuilt. It involves the creation of a national myth, of something that unites and binds the entire country. The propaganda of Hitler as a knight was not just simple pictures that made him look good. They were part of the legend that he would save Germany from the abyss, that he would rebuild it into something greater.

How does this relate to Trump? With Trump you see very small flashes of this. Our leaders our idiots, they are being taken for fools, every other country takes America for a ride, our enemies our laughing at us, a generic, we need to do something, fix something. Trump is all about that, and is certainly a nationalist, but nowhere close to that of Hitler, the most extreme example. He has not created a national myth and is incoherent even in his nationalist beliefs. He was an isolationist until recently.

In short, I'm not seeing much of an argument for Trump as a fascist, good read though.
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