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B903 - Military Pilot Protection Bill 2015 watch

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    B903 - Military Pilot Protection Bill 2015, The Hon. hazzer1998 MP

    Military Pilot Protection Bill 2015

    A Bill to Arm Military Pilots during combat

    1) Protection of Pilots
    (1) Pilots that fly Attack/fighter , Intelligence and surveillance and refuel Aircraft / helicopters shall be armed with a handheld firearm during combat
    (2) Pilots of the RAF , RNAS and AAC shall be armed with a glock 17 or 9MM Pistol during the above situations and will be heavy restricted on use of the firearm during combat ( i.e air strikes or conflicts )

    2) Usage of the Weapon
    (1) If a pilot is captured during combat he or she may use the firearm in self defense and when he/she feels threatened during combat that requires air assistance
    (2) Military Pilots shall Only be armed during combat i.e Airstrikes or during a conflict
    (3) Military Pilots may not be armed during the follow situations
    (i) When on a training exercise abroad or in the UK
    (ii) During air displays at air shows
    (iii) When on Joint exercises with other air forces
    ( iv) During Air Experience flights
    (4) If a Military Pilot is found to of been carrying a firearm during the above restrictions they shall be dishonorably discharged from Her Majesty s Armed Force

    3) Commencement, short title and extent
    (1) This Act may be cited as the Military Pilot Protection Bill
    (2) This act shall extend to the UK
    (3) Shall come into force following Royal Assent.

    Notes:
    This Bill is purely to protect Military pilots when they are flying Attack / fighter intelligence . surveillance aircraft or helicopter during Military combat that require air support ( i.e Air strikes ) RAF , RNAS And AAC Pilots do not currently carry firearms during combat . the only protection they have are survival knifes . this bill will arm the military pilots during combat ONLY and the firearm will only be used if the pilot is captured during combat or feels threatened during a confict

    Military Pilots are highly skilled so they chances of them crashing the plane during conflict and being captured are slim . and the firearm is only used in extreme situations

    The Firearm can easily be concealed in one of the many pockets in a military flying suit so it will not be on display and will not interfere with the pilot and the equipment used.
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    Training would surely have to be provided? I agree with the general premise though

    Edit: Punishment is also too harsh.
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    The punishment is too strict for my liking, I also don't see the point of the bill while it includes 2 3(iii), surely it should cover all air missions to make this effective?
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Training would surely have to be provided? I agree with the general premise though

    Edit: Punishment is also too harsh.
    I'm not certain but I think they already have firearms training, but yes I see your point

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    In my eyes the point Petros raised will make this perfect

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    I'd say remove 2(3)(iii) and add in about training, and then it's definitely an Aye from me.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    Training would surely have to be provided? I agree with the general premise though

    Edit: Punishment is also too harsh.
    Ok so all military personnel are firearm trained but when military pilots are doing flying training there is no need for them to have a sidearm on them ... They will only have them when flying in combat situations
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    Let's say what I told hazzer. This is already done, making this pointless really
    The Glock 17 is 9mm pistol
    They should have them on exercises, just like everybody else has their firearms too, just not loaded with lice ammo, as is also the case already, a few elite units aside.
    2.1 and 2.4 are also already going to be the case from one source or another
    The penalties should be exactly the same as those that already exist

    TL;DR, this should be withdrawn immediately as it achieves a grand total of nothing.

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    I agree with petros's comments, but other than that it's a great idea

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    (Original post by mobbsy91)
    I'd say remove 2(3)(iii) and add in about training, and then it's definitely an Aye from me.
    With Regrades to 2(3)(iii) i will ammend ) and with 2(3)(1) I will edited it so it only affects UK Based Flying Training
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    Are you aware that the Royal Naval Air Service, which is presumably what you are referring to as the RNAS, was disbanded in 1918 and amalgamated with the Royal Flying Corps to form the Royal Air Force?

    I'm also curious as to what you think currently prevents pilots being armed (it's routine in a combat environment!)
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Let's say what I told hazzer. This is already done, making this pointless really
    The Glock 17 is 9mm pistol
    They should have them on exercises, just like everybody else has their firearms too, just not loaded with lice ammo, as is also the case already, a few elite units aside.
    2.1 and 2.4 are also already going to be the case from one source or another
    The penalties should be exactly the same as those that already exist

    TL;DR, this should be withdrawn immediately as it achieves a grand total of nothing.

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    Pilots are not armed thats the thing ! the only slef protection they have is a small survival knife ! thats really going to protect them if they are shot down over eastern Syria
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    (Original post by Birchington)
    B903 - Military Pilot Protection Bill 2015, The Hon. hazzer1998 MP

    1) Protection of Pilots
    (1) Pilots that fly Attack/fighter , Intelligence and surveillance and refuel Aircraft / helicopters shall be armed with a handheld firearm during combat
    (2) Pilots of the RAF , RNAS and AAC shall be armed with a glock 17 or 9MM Pistol during the above situations and will be heavy restricted on use of the firearm during combat ( i.e air strikes or conflicts )

    2) Usage of the Weapon
    (1) If a pilot is captured during combat he or she may use the firearm in self defense and when he/she feels threatened during combat that requires air assistance
    (2) Military Pilots shall Only be armed during combat i.e Airstrikes or during a conflict
    (3) Military Pilots may not be armed during the follow situations
    (i) When on a training exercise abroad or in the UK
    (ii) During air displays at air shows
    (iii) When on Joint exercises with other air forces
    ( iv) During Air Experience flights
    (4) If a Military Pilot is found to of been carrying a firearm during the above restrictions they shall be dishonorably discharged from Her Majesty s Armed Force

    The Firearm can easily be concealed in one of the many pockets in a military flying suit so it will not be on display and will not interfere with the pilot and the equipment used.
    Nay - I agree with the idea but would prefer if the bill was better presented and there are three amendments I'd make:

    - The punishment is too harsh, give them a field punishment or whatever the procedure is

    - All pilots should be issued a compact Glock 19 instead of the standard issue Glock 17 while on active service

    - Air crews should be issued with 1-2 larger automatic weapons, either:
    - Easily concealable/stowable L80A1/L90A1 MP5s, being stockless and have vertical foregrips; or
    - SA80 L22A2, a shortened carbine used primarily by vehicle and helicopter crews for self-defence.

    - Pilots should be given fairly extensive training in the use of these weapons
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Pilots are not armed thats the thing ! the only slef protection they have is a small survival knife ! thats really going to protect them if they are shot down over eastern Syria
    Which is where my issue with 2(3)(iii) comes in, aren't we part of the US coalition bombing Syria, which would exclude the pilots from carrying firearms? Or am I mistaken?

    Also again the punishment is far too much, dishonourable discharge should only be after at the very least one warning!
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    (Original post by CurlyBen)
    Are you aware that the Royal Naval Air Service, which is presumably what you are referring to as the RNAS, was disbanded in 1918 and amalgamated with the Royal Flying Corps to form the Royal Air Force?

    I'm also curious as to what you think currently prevents pilots being armed (it's routine in a combat environment!)
    Its Actually not " routine " as not all military pilots have handguns while flying in combat missions . this bill will make it Law that all military pilots Will HAVE to been armed in ALL Combat situations regradless of the location

    as for training

    - Military Pilots will be armed ( with blank ammo ) during training exercises with other air forces however they will NOT be armed during standard flying training in the UK
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Nay - I agree with the idea but would prefer if the bill was better presented and there are three amendments I'd make:

    - The punishment is too harsh, give them a field punishment or whatever the procedure is

    - All pilots should be issued a compact Glock 19 instead of the standard issue Glock 17 while on active service

    - Air crews should be issued with 1-2 larger automatic weapons, either:
    - Easily concealable/stowable L80A1/L90A1 MP5s, being stockless and have vertical foregrips; or
    - SA80 L22A2, a shortened carbine used primarily by vehicle and helicopter crews for self-defence.

    - Pilots should be given fairly extensive training in the use of these weapons
    - Giving Pilots SA80s might interfere with their flying as its a very heavy and large gun . whereas a small compact handgun like the glock 17 or anyother 9mm pistol is ideal
    - Like i said Pilots will not be armed during UK Based standard flying . however if they are taking part in a large training exercise with other air forces then they will be armed . and they will be armed during combat situations ( airstrikes , interceptions ETC )
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    (Original post by Kay_Winters)
    Which is where my issue with 2(3)(iii) comes in, aren't we part of the US coalition bombing Syria, which would exclude the pilots from carrying firearms? Or am I mistaken?

    Also again the punishment is far too much, dishonourable discharge should only be after at the very least one warning!
    Coaliton airstrikes are'nt training or exercises . its a proper combat / war situation ( its for real ) thats why under this bill airstrikes are classed as a combat situation
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Pilots are not armed thats the thing ! the only slef protection they have is a small survival knife ! thats really going to protect them if they are shot down over eastern Syria
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nd-ground.html

    Pretty sure that's the one that The Financier gave you the other day

    Whilst only a forum, got somebody who flew over Iraq saying they had them
    http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/...earm-news.html
    http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/foru...8#.VmzDCEqLSUk

    Or let's go for the RAF itself:
    http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...fff37857da.pdf
    p102, 9mm pistols: "Eachsquadron holds a central store of pistols, which areissued to individuals when close protection is considerednecessary"
    Are you suggesting that the potential for an airman to be in hostile territory is not a necessary need for close protection?

    According to some other reading some of the helicopters have L80 variants, much like the USAF and their M4s.
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    (Original post by hazzer1998)
    Coaliton airstrikes are'nt training or exercises . its a proper combat / war situation ( its for real ) thats why under this bill airstrikes are classed as a combat situation
    So could you just clarify 2 (3)(iii) then, perhaps it is just me but I am confused by what you mean by "joint exercise"?
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Nay - I agree with the idea but would prefer if the bill was better presented and there are three amendments I'd make:

    - The punishment is too harsh, give them a field punishment or whatever the procedure is

    - All pilots should be issued a compact Glock 19 instead of the standard issue Glock 17 while on active service

    - Air crews should be issued with 1-2 larger automatic weapons, either:
    - Easily concealable/stowable L80A1/L90A1 MP5s, being stockless and have vertical foregrips; or
    - SA80 L22A2, a shortened carbine used primarily by vehicle and helicopter crews for self-defence.

    - Pilots should be given fairly extensive training in the use of these weapons
    Aye to this.

    I find unbelievable that pilots weren't armed before.
 
 
 
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