I think there's three separate problems:

- It's not taught at school, with the exception of A Level, which is pretty rare anyway.
- Languages are ignored, so dead languages in classics are even more ignored.
- We have been lead to believe that only certain degrees = guaranteed career. This is a huge misconception, and I can imagine classics grads have quite a few career options.

It's probably called a 'white' subject because it's seen as a sign of upper class education e.g philosophy, ancient language, ancient literature.

Reply 7

robinfr

OP

15

Original post by Mpagtches

That's very gracious of you.

It is, isn't it just? Would you care to answer the question?

Reply 8

robinfr

OP

15

Original post by serebro

I think there's three separate problems:

- It's not taught at school, with the exception of A Level, which is pretty rare anyway.
- Languages are ignored, so dead languages in classics are even more ignored.
- We have been lead to believe that only certain degrees = guaranteed career. This is a huge misconception, and I can imagine classics grads have quite a few career options.

It's probably called a 'white' subject because it's seen as a sign of upper class education e.g philosophy, ancient language, ancient literature.

oh that makes me sad. (the bold bit) I hate it when people say "oh what job can you get with that? isn't it a bit arty farty?"

Reply 9

Shotte

8

Original post by robinfr

oh that makes me sad. (the bold bit) I hate it when people say "oh what job can you get with that? isn't it a bit arty farty?"

People say that when pertaining to a great many subjects. English Literature, History of Art, Linguistics, Art proper, even History... those are just a few examples. The fact is - and I know it's odious to accept - but they aren't wrong. It's a bad current climate indeed and these subjects do not by themselves usher you directly into a prospective career. But that doesn't mean they're unemployable. They're more skills-based, so you have to be a little more proactive in your job hunting. But more than that, employability shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of picking your subject, though it must factor in... you have to study what you enjoy most at university, especially if it's what you're best at, too.

I'm not exactly of a well-to-do background so for me, plumping for Englit was a bit of a worry but I've just decided to cross the bridge of earning my crust when it comes to it. Flogging myself for a subject I don't enjoy and don't perform as well in, for three years, would be stupid. Especially because a lot of 'extremely employable' subjects are vastly overrated. Economics, yeah, Engineering, almost certainly. But Chemistry? If my Dad's PhD is anything to go by, jobs in the industry can be pretty menial and are sorely underpaid to boot.

Employability isn't something you can sweep under the carpet, but you shouldn't listen to anyone who has the gall to diss classics - that's a cert. Fact is, it's an extremely academic and challenging degree, and if they don't get the cojones and smarts that needs to be put into it: well, more fool them. :P

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 10

Copperknickers

15

Original post by robinfr

When ever I say I want to do classics, either nobody knows what it is or its a "white" subject. wtf

Every subject is a white subject ffs, we live in a country that is 90% white. Anyhow my Classics class at uni was pretty diverse, there were several Muslims and South Asians, although no black people (which is unusual for London, but the norm for most of the UK).

Classics was replaced by Modern Greats (aka PPE) as the primary prestigious humanities subject and has been in decline ever since. Especially since WW2 people don't see the relevance of history any more, and we're now living in a time where students are the children of the generation who grew up in the 70s and 80s when everything historical was viewed as bad. So for the first time ever we now have a generation where even middle class parents actively discourage their children from pursuing anything that might be viewed as endowing their children with 'privelege'.

Plus I guess people just don't see the relevance of learning about the ancient world now that we don't have our own empire to govern. Especially since the new millenium, Ancient Greece and Rome seem a lot further away than they once did. Which is sad, because pre-modern history is only getting more relevant as the 21st century progresses, with things like the rise of ISIS and Putin's invasion of Crimea showing that anyone who thinks we have significantly moved on from ancient religious conflict and Greco-Roman power politics is sorely deluded.

And also, I think that studying the distant past gives you a healthy perspective about the present and the future. Perhaps the climate change debate might be a little more productive if more people had an appreciation for our descendants who will be learning about 21st Century politics and culture in 2000 years time, and what they will say about us if we continue to screw up their planet for them.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 11

robinfr

OP

15

what university do you go to?

Reply 12

yasaminO_o

11

If I weren't interested in science Classics, Latin and Greek would have been the course I'd have applied to

Reply 13

IFoundWonderland

19

Original post by serebro

I think there's three separate problems:

- It's not taught at school, with the exception of A Level, which is pretty rare anyway.
- Languages are ignored, so dead languages in classics are even more ignored.
- We have been lead to believe that only certain degrees = guaranteed career. This is a huge misconception, and I can imagine classics grads have quite a few career options.

It's probably called a 'white' subject because it's seen as a sign of upper class education e.g philosophy, ancient language, ancient literature.

My school offers a Classics GCSE and A Level and the sixth form I went to offers Classics A Level too.

It's odd because a Classics degree used to be the degree to have in the 1800s/early 1900s.

Reply 14

Democracy2013

7

Original post by Shotte

People say that when pertaining to a great many subjects. English Literature, History of Art, Linguistics, Art proper, even History... those are just a few examples. The fact is - and I know it's odious to accept - but they aren't wrong. It's a bad current climate indeed and these subjects do not by themselves usher you directly into a prospective career. But that doesn't mean they're unemployable. They're more skills-based, so you have to be a little more proactive in your job hunting. But more than that, employability shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of picking your subject, though it must factor in... you have to study what you enjoy most at university, especially if it's what you're best at, too.

I'm not exactly of a well-to-do background so for me, plumping for Englit was a bit of a worry but I've just decided to cross the bridge of earning my crust when it comes to it. Flogging myself for a subject I don't enjoy and don't perform as well in, for three years, would be stupid. Especially because a lot of 'extremely employable' subjects are vastly overrated. Economics, yeah, Engineering, almost certainly. But Chemistry? If my Dad's PhD is anything to go by, jobs in the industry can be pretty menial and are sorely underpaid to boot.

Employability isn't something you can sweep under the carpet, but you shouldn't listen to anyone who has the gall to diss classics - that's a cert. Fact is, it's an extremely academic and challenging degree, and if they don't get the cojones and smarts that needs to be put into it: well, more fool them. :P

I agree with you up to the point where you allude it's about intelligence. Employers, in contrary to Marx idea that the employee should be able to negotiate terms with them, in the modern economy with the many potential candidates simply choose who they desire, it's that simple. Classics is viewed as a preserve of the upper class and likely more suitable for specific careers such as teaching, history, research type employ than anything else. Many degrees are transferrable in that employers say '2.1' like an autistic child and think/ expect that guarantees the best candidates even though universities just keep the economy going.

Reply 15

iliacl

3

I live in Singapore, and I'm currently the only person from my school who has ever expressed an interest to do Classics -- ever. Which is odd, seeing how my school contains 3000+ and is one of the most prestigious in the region... I think it's because it's not applicable to day-to-day life, and there isn't much exposure to the text without actively seeking them out.

Reply 16

Flibib

9

I'd imagine there's a correlation between the decline of classics and the increasing commodification of education

Reply 17

ChaoticButterfly

20

Original post by IFoundWonderland

It's odd because a Classics degree used to be the degree to have in the 1800s/early 1900s.

That's was when the well to do were the ones who had the privileged to do that, whilst the proles and everyone else were running the factories or tending the farms.

Now the plebs actually have access to education, but there is much more emphasist on them having to combine that education, with you know, actually working.

Reply 18

Copperknickers

15

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

That's was when the well to do were the ones who had the privileged to do that, whilst the proles and everyone else were running the factories or tending the farms.

It's also because what you learn in Classics was directly relevant to people who would go on to become Civil Servants or military commanders in the British Empire. It teaches you how to learn multiple complex languages quickly, how to understand an alien culture, and the philosophy behind the government of an empire and how to win a battle (much of Early Modern military tactics were directly adopted from the Romans).

Reply 19

DaveSmith123

The main problem and part of why it is considered a 'white subject' is that classics is closely guarded by the upper classes. It's the private schools that get to study ancient languages/culture with the opportunities to pursue it whereas many normal schools do not have the facilities to offer these qualifications.

Why is there a decline in Classics?

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