Throwing away chance at top uni...

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callum_law
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#41
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#41
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
Yes but I would suspect KCL holds greater weight amongst the big name firms than York and Exeter.
If I have an English degree from KCL, I don't think a firm would care a jot. For my subject law, they might care somewhat more about the KCL name. The point remains that firms do visit York and Exeter, with the same frequency as KCL.
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Gridiron-Gangster
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#42
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#42
(Original post by callum_law)
If I have an English degree from KCL, I don't think a firm would care a jot. For my subject law, they might care somewhat more about the KCL name. The point remains that firms do visit York and Exeter, with the same frequency as KCL.
But it's not worth throwing away the opportunity to take a step down all in the name of having fun.
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callum_law
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#43
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#43
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
But it's not worth throwing away the opportunity to take a step down all in the name of having fun.
The problem here is that you're assuming it's a step down. I don't think they mentioned degree subject, but York/Exeter are as good as KCL in some subjects and in some subjects are even better. Using the example of English: English is a partially A*AA course at Exeter whereas it's AAA at KCL.
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Gridiron-Gangster
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#44
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#44
(Original post by callum_law)
The problem here is that you're assuming it's a step down. I don't think they mentioned degree subject, but York/Exeter are as good as KCL in some subjects and in some subjects are even better. Using the example of English: English is a partially A*AA course at Exeter whereas it's AAA at KCL.
Really depends on what the OP wants to do afterwards, if they want to go into academia then sure it wouldn't be an issue. I just think (based on general/peer/employer/reputation rankings) that KCL is a more highly regarded institution. Most rankings with the exception of the odd domestic rankings would support my claim.

Furthermore if it's a case of having to start a programme again, I would question the logic in switching universities not to mention the additional costs incurred although may be cheaper than London etc.

I haven't said Exeter or York are bad, not at all in fact they're both very good universities (this coming from an Exon). I just think that with a view to career prospects and especially if the OP were keen on IB or Consultancy etc, it would make little sense to drop out from uni on the doorstep of The City for Devon or Yorkshire. The opportunities that come with studying at one of the top London universities are second to none, arguably more so than Oxbridge.

OP have you tried looking at halls or student accommodation like Unite nearer to campus.
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callum_law
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#45
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#45
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
Really depends on what the OP wants to do afterwards, if they want to go into academia then sure it wouldn't be an issue. I just think (based on general/peer/employer/reputation rankings) that KCL is a more highly regarded institution. Most rankings with the exception of the odd domestic rankings would support my claim.
Again, it depends upon the subject. We're not talking about an Oxbridge and York here; we're taking about universities which are quite similar in terms of prestige, if they can really be considered "prestigious". The universities are quite similar for most courses and I do not think anyone would seriously see a difference between York/Exeter and KCL for most subjects, with the exception of Law. Proximity to London may help if you're looking to work in IB, but you're making assumptions about OP's ambitions here. Certainly the claim that recruiters are less likely to visit Yorkshire or Devon is not true. Usually firms have a dedicated team of "promoters" who visit the likes of Oxbridge and go as far as Glasgow/Edinburgh, and in turn they circle most RG unis.

It's not a hugely significant comment, but I have to point out that it is not the "odd" domestic ranking which places KCL at the same level as York/Exeter; it's all three. As you probably know, Exeter is top 10 in all three, KCL is top 20+ in all three, and York is within the top 20 for two and just outside the top 20 in one.
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Gridiron-Gangster
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#46
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#46
(Original post by callum_law)
Again, it depends upon the subject. We're not talking about an Oxbridge and York here; we're taking about universities which are quite similar in terms of prestige, if they can really be considered "prestigious". The universities are quite similar for most courses and I do not think anyone would seriously see a difference between York/Exeter and KCL for most subjects, with the exception of Law. Proximity to London may help if you're looking to work in IB, but you're making assumptions about OP's ambitions here. Certainly the claim that recruiters are less likely to visit Yorkshire or Devon is not true. Usually firms have a dedicated team of "promoters" who visit the likes of Oxbridge and go as far as Glasgow/Edinburgh, and in turn they circle most RG unis.

It's not a hugely significant comment, but I have to point out that it is not the "odd" domestic ranking which places KCL at the same level as York/Exeter; it's all three. As you probably know, Exeter is top 10 in all three, KCL is top 20+ in all three, and York is within the top 20 for two and just outside the top 20 in one.
The domestic rankings really aren't worth their salt if they can rank Surrey inside the top ten. The global, peer, employer and reputation rankings paint a better picture and all rate KCL significantly higher than Exeter.
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callum_law
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
The domestic rankings really aren't worth their salt if they can rank Surrey inside the top ten. The global, peer, employer and reputation rankings paint a better picture and all rate KCL significantly higher than Exeter.
The international rankings are similarly daft. However, I was responding specifically to your use of "odd" rather than giving domestic rankings credence.
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Gridiron-Gangster
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#48
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#48
(Original post by callum_law)
The international rankings are similarly daft. However, I was responding specifically to your use of "odd" rather than giving domestic rankings credence.
Daft they may be but they paint a far accurate picture of how well regarded KCL is both domestically and globally.
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callum_law
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
Daft they may be but they paint a far accurate picture of how well regarded KCL is both domestically and globally.
I like to look at them and see how Manchester is supposed to be as highly regarded as NUS or HKU. Then I laugh to myself.
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Gridiron-Gangster
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#50
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#50
(Original post by callum_law)
I like to look at them and see how Manchester is supposed to be as highly regarded as NUS or HKU. Then I laugh to myself.
If we consider research output and Nobel Laureates etc then yes Manchester would be ranked higher. Certainly more so than Exeter.

It's like comparing Durham with Chicago.
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callum_law
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
If we consider research output and Nobel Laureates etc then yes Manchester would be ranked higher. Certainly more so than Exeter.

It's like comparing Durham with Chicago.
You mean if we consider Nobel Laureates, because that's the thing which really differentiates the universities in the international rankings. NUS in fact has a greater research output than Manchester, for example. Further, Exeter's research quality is of a better quality than Manchester's according to Leiden, yet Manchester is much higher in the international rankings. So yes, let's talk about how a university today is rather good because it had leading researchers in the 1950s and they won quite a few awards for their work. How does that affect me as an undergraduate; how does that affect me as a recruiter? It simply does not. Both the international and domestic rankings are quite daft, and I feel you put too much stock in them.

How is it that we have come from a claim about networking, to a claim about prestige, to a claim about international rankings? When talking to you, the issue under discussion becomes remarkably mobile.
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Gridiron-Gangster
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#52
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#52
(Original post by callum_law)
You mean if we consider Nobel Laureates, because that's the thing which really differentiates the universities in the international rankings. NUS in fact has a greater research output than Manchester, for example. Further, Exeter's research quality is of a better quality than Manchester's according to Leiden, yet Manchester is much higher in the international rankings. So yes, let's talk about how a university today is rather good because it had leading researchers in the 1950s and they won quite a few awards for their work. How does that affect me as an undergraduate; how does that affect me as a recruiter? It simply does not. Both the international and domestic rankings are quite daft, and I feel you put too much stock in them.

How is it that we have come from a claim about networking, to a claim about prestige, to a claim about international rankings? When talking to you, the issue under discussion becomes remarkably mobile.
Because all the factors you mention in the final line contribute to a university's standing and most if not all employer rankings and peer rankings which indeed count for a lot more all place KCL above Exeter. Exeter is a good university, very good in fact but it has never been regarded as prestigious or even amongst the very best in the UK.

A KCL degree opens more doors than an Exeter degree.
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callum_law
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
A KCL degree opens more doors than an Exeter degree.
For one degree subject, this is the case. For some others, it is not the case.
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Gridiron-Gangster
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#54
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#54
(Original post by callum_law)
For one degree subject, this is the case. For some others, it is not the case.
As a university in general it is perceived as more prestigious especially internationally.
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callum_law
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
As a university in general it is perceived as more prestigious especially internationally.
By whom? By people who'd take a Manchester LLB grad over an HKU LLB grad? I think such people need to shove their face into a meat grinder and do the world a favour.
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Conzy210
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#56
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#56
Just adding my two cents to the whole prestige argument here.

I don't disagree at all with the argument that KCL gives you more career opportunities than say, Exeter or York. However, firms want a lot more from graduates than purely a good degree. You have to have EC activities on your CV, potentially some part time work etc. If you're at a campus university, not commuting, and therefore can engage more with the opportunities a university offers you there is a good chance you may well be a better candidate on paper despite a less prestigious degree.

I go to York and study Law, and fully appreciate that it isn't the most prestigious of law schools. However, I love the university, love the campus nature of it and love the collegiate system. Due to this I'm extremely happy at university and have been able to get involved in so much more than I would be able to if I studied in London due to monetary reasons. This is even more true if my alternative to York was commuting into KCL.

My advice would be that life is too short to be unhappy, so make a change. Study somewhere you'll be happy, get involved in everything you can and really fulfil your potential.
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username738914
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#57
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#57
(Original post by Gridiron-Gangster)
Really depends on what the OP wants to do afterwards, if they want to go into academia then sure it wouldn't be an issue. I just think (based on general/peer/employer/reputation rankings) that KCL is a more highly regarded institution. Most rankings with the exception of the odd domestic rankings would support my claim.

Furthermore if it's a case of having to start a programme again, I would question the logic in switching universities not to mention the additional costs incurred although may be cheaper than London etc.

I haven't said Exeter or York are bad, not at all in fact they're both very good universities (this coming from an Exon). I just think that with a view to career prospects and especially if the OP were keen on IB or Consultancy etc, it would make little sense to drop out from uni on the doorstep of The City for Devon or Yorkshire. The opportunities that come with studying at one of the top London universities are second to none, arguably more so than Oxbridge.

OP have you tried looking at halls or student accommodation like Unite nearer to campus.
Being on the 'doorstep' of The City won't change the fact that KCL is not a traditional target university for those career sectors. Hell, amongst the semi-targets it's rarely at the top of the spectrum (this spectrum being the number of new interns/analysts that flow in per year).

Much of your reasoning is based on the idea of KCL simply 'sounding' better. When in reality, it sends similar numbers into IB/Consulting as say, a York or Exeter.



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Gridiron-Gangster
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#58
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#58
(Original post by callum_law)
By whom? By people who'd take a Manchester LLB grad over an HKU LLB grad? I think such people need to shove their face into a meat grinder and do the world a favour.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com...008497.article

There's one.
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callum_law
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#59
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#59
They are two universities in two different countries. To compare the rate of graduates going into professional and semi-professional work from those universities in those countries is like comparing apples and oranges. No one would seriously pick up a Manc undergrad over an HKU undergrad. No one would even put them in the same category.

You live in some weird universe, it seems. One dominated by the lore of THE World Rankings, in Middle Earth. If the employability isn't in the top 50, the evil Lord of Light will smite you where you stand.

KCL is not "prestigious"; it's an average second-tier university, for everything but Law. I think I've said this about 20 times, but somehow the conversation takes a strange turn to something completely irrelevant.
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Gridiron-Gangster
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#60
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#60
(Original post by callum_law)
They are two universities in two different countries. To compare the rate of graduates going into professional and semi-professional work from those universities in those countries is like comparing apples and oranges. No one would seriously pick up a Manc undergrad over an HKU undergrad. No one would even put them in the same category.

You live in some weird universe, it seems. One dominated by the lore of THE World Rankings, in Middle Earth. If the employability isn't in the top 50, the evil Lord of Light will smite you where you stand.

KCL is not "prestigious"; it's an average second-tier university, for everything but Law. I think I've said this about 20 times, but somehow the conversation takes a strange turn to something completely irrelevant.
I never said KCL was prestigious but it is certainly more highly regarded than Exeter but only you don't seem to believe that. Each to their own.
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