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Edexcel M1 Dynamics [ Mixed Ex 3I Q26 (b) ]

I am stuck on M1 Mixed Ex3I, Q26 (b) in the Edexcel textbook. I'll quote the question.

Two particles A and B, of mass m kg and 3 kg respectively, are connected by a light inextensible string string. The particle A is held resting on a smooth fixed plane inclined at 30 degrees to the horizontal. The string passes over a smooth pulley P fixed at the top of the plane. The portion AP of the string lies along a line of greatest slope of the plane and B hangs freely from the pulley, as shown in the figure. The system is released from rest with B at a height of 0.25 m above horizontal ground. Immediately after release, B descends with an acceleration of 2g/5. Given that A does not reach P, calculate

(b) the value of m.

I tried doing this resolving directly upward/north, and I can't seem to get the correct answer (2). I have seen the solution where you can resolve in a north east direction and I understand it, but I just want to know if it is possible to resolve north and still get the answer, as that was what I instinctively turned to.

My workings included (where R is the normal reaction, a is the acceleration and T is worked out as 17.64) :

Taking A:

Using F=ma

R = mgcos30+(2g/5m)

[Resolving upwards]

mg = Rcos30+Tcos60+acos60

mg = [mgcos30+(2g/5m)]cos30+(17.64)cos60+(2g/5)(cos(60))

9.8m = m( cos30+ 2g/5) + 10.78

5.01... m = 10.78

m = 2.14999...

So I got close, but I'm pretty sure the solution resolving north east gets m = 2 without any decimals. I know this is a bit more complicated than the other way of resolving, I just want to know if my way of seeing a question would fail in an exam. Thanks.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by jamb97
I am stuck on M1 Mixed Ex3I, Q26 (b) in the Edexcel textbook. I'll quote the question.

Two particles A and B, of mass m kg and 3 kg respectively, are connected by a light inextensible string string. The particle A is held resting on a smooth fixed plane inclined at 30 degrees to the horizontal. The string passes over a smooth pulley P fixed at the top of the plane. The portion AP of the string lies along a line of greatest slope of the plane and B hangs freely from the pulley, as shown in the figure. The system is released from rest with B at a height of 0.25 m above horizontal ground. Immediately after release, B descends with an acceleration of 2g/5. Given that A does not reach P, calculate

(b) the value of m.

I tried doing this resolving directly upward/north, and I can't seem to get the correct answer (2). I have seen the solution where you can resolve in a north east direction and I understand it, but I just want to know if it is possible to resolve north and still get the answer, as that was what I instinctively turned to.

My workings included (where R is the normal reaction, a is the acceleration and T is worked out as 17.64) :

[Resolving north west]

R = mgcos30+(2g/5m)

[Resolving upwards]

mg = Rcos30+Tcos60+acos60

mg = [mgcos30+(2g/5m)]cos30+(17.64)cos60+(2g/5)(cos(60))

9.8m = m( cos30+ 2g/5) + 10.78

5.01... m = 10.78

m = 2.14999...

So I got close, but I'm pretty sure the solution resolving north east gets m = 2 without any decimals. I know this is a bit more complicated than the other way of resolving, I just want to know if my way of seeing a question would fail in an exam. Thanks.


how u calculated this ?(bold) 2g/5 is the acceleration of both A and B right ?
Reply 2
Original post by Duke Glacia
how u calculated this ?(bold) 2g/5 is the acceleration of both A and B right ?
I was just focusing on A throughout all of this. Sorry for not making this clear, I'll edit the post again!

I calculated it using F=ma. R = mass of a (m) multiplied by the acceleration (2g/5).
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by jamb97
I was just focusing on A throughout all of this. Sorry for not making this clear, I'll edit the post again!


no i menat your calculatrion of R is wrong its R=mgcos30 no need +2mg/5
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by Duke Glacia
no i menat your calculatrion of R is wrong its R=mgcos30 no need +2mg/5
Yes I think I made a mistake there since the acceleration is perpendicular, my fault. But even using R = mgcos30, I still don't get the correct answer
Original post by jamb97
Yes I think I made a mistake there since the acceleration is perpendicular, my fault. But even using R = mgcos30, I still don't get the correct answer


draw a free body diagram.
to be frank u dont need the value of R
T-mgsin30=2mg/5
do u get this ?
Reply 6
Original post by Duke Glacia
draw a free body diagram.
to be frank u dont need the value of R
T-mgsin30=2mg/5
do u get this ?


Yes I have seen that solution, but that is resolving in a different direction. I just wanted to know if it was possible to resolve directly upward and still get the correct answer
Original post by jamb97


[Resolving upwards]

mg = Rcos30+Tcos60+acos60



This equation is also incorrect.

If you resolve vertically, then using ma=F.

ma cos60 = Rcos30 + Tcos60 - mg

Which rearranges to something slightly different to what you had.
Original post by jamb97
Yes I have seen that solution, but that is resolving in a different direction. I just wanted to know if it was possible to resolve directly upward and still get the correct answer


its possible but your gonna make your life really tougher and its a very bad practice which u shouldnt.
for A
Tsin30+Rcos30-mg=(2mg/5)sin30 vert
Tcos30-Rsin30=(2mg/5)cos30
(imay be wrog)
then use
for B
3g-T=(2g/5)*3

but u seriously wanna do this
Original post by ghostwalker
This equation is also incorrect.

If you resolve vertically, then using ma=F.

ma cos60 = Rcos30 + Tcos60 - mg

Which rearranges to something slightly different to what you had.


Original post by jamb97
Yes I have seen that solution, but that is resolving in a different direction. I just wanted to know if it was possible to resolve directly upward and still get the correct answer


yup anotho point. Either way im gettin the same answer using the eqn i mentioned above(its corrext) but youd betta lick your *ick while writin the M1 exam than using this method. It takes too much time and energy. Good luck
Reply 10
Original post by ghostwalker
This equation is also incorrect.

If you resolve vertically, then using ma=F.

ma cos60 = Rcos30 + Tcos60 - mg

Which rearranges to something slightly different to what you had.

Yes that makes sense now, thank you. What value for R did you get? I tried using R=mgcos30 but I didn't get the right answer

Edit: I forgot to put the negative on the acceleration since it was in the opposition direction, I got the correct answer now. I apologize, my brain has not been working today
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by jamb97
Yes that makes sense now, thank you. What value for R did you get? I tried using R=mgcos30 but I didn't get the right answer

Edit: I forgot to put the negative on the acceleration since it was in the opposition direction, I got the correct answer now. I apologize, my brain has not been working today


No problem.

As you can see you can resolve in any direction, but, as others have said, in the exam go for the standard method - it's simpler and quicker.

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