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To become a quant...

I have a question...to become a quant, do you need a PhD or will an MSc suffice? In my case, I will be starting an MSc Applied Mathematics at Imperial in sept which lasts one year. After graduation, will i have enough to apply for quant roles or will i have to do a PhD aswell? If the answer is PhD, than is it worth me doing an MSc? That is, should I go straight to do a PhD and skip the MSc? Thanks a lot!

Reply 1

Knogle

16

cant_think_of_a_username

I have a question...to become a quant, do you need a PhD or will an MSc suffice? In my case, I will be starting an MSc Applied Mathematics at Imperial in sept which lasts one year. After graduation, will i have enough to apply for quant roles or will i have to do a PhD aswell? If the answer is PhD, than is it worth me doing an MSc? That is, should I go straight to do a PhD and skip the MSc? Thanks a lot!

You certainly don't need a PhD. A good number don't even have a MSc; just a BSc in a [very] quantitative subject with a flare for mathematics and modelling.

Reply 2

aaaaz

10

Knogle

You certainly don't need a PhD. A good number don't even have a MSc; just a BSc in a [very] quantitative subject with a flare for mathematics and modelling.

I've heard from a very reliable source that most firms will bin application forms with only a BSc listed. Maybe current quants only have a BSc, but that boom is long gone.

A masters will put you in a better position than now, but wont guarantee anything. Can you program?

I'm in a similar situation to you. Personally I don't think an MSc is worthwhile. I'll be going for a P.hD. mainly because I don't want to be 40 and have a "what if" hanging over my head. I've got a few career plans, most of them involve having a doctorate. Plus there is a field that I currently work in and I'd certainly like to take some time to look deeper into it. I wouldn't recommend getting a P.hD. purely to become a quant.

Reply 3

fblade

14

sorry for my stupidity, but do you have to do a MSc before a PhD?

Reply 4

Howard

5

fblade

sorry for my stupidity, but do you have to do a MSc before a PhD?

No.

Reply 5

cant_think_of_a_username

OP

2

aaaaz

I've heard from a very reliable source that most firms will bin application forms with only a BSc listed. Maybe current quants only have a BSc, but that boom is long gone.

A masters will put you in a better position than now, but wont guarantee anything. Can you program?

I'm in a similar situation to you. Personally I don't think an MSc is worthwhile. I'll be going for a P.hD. mainly because I don't want to be 40 and have a "what if" hanging over my head. I've got a few career plans, most of them involve having a doctorate. Plus there is a field that I currently work in and I'd certainly like to take some time to look deeper into it. I wouldn't recommend getting a P.hD. purely to become a quant.

Hey azzz,
You are certainly right in saying that BSc applicants will be ignored. To become a quant, they all ask that you have postgraduate qualifications. However, the problem is that every company has a different idea of postgraduate qualifications, some specifically ask for a PhD, some say that an MSc will do…? I probably will do an MSc as its probably too late to apply for a PhD at the top unis and if I get a quant role after my MSc then that’s wicked, if not I will probably pursue a PhD. I’m not sure if this is a good idea but I don’t think I have any other options….unless anyone has any bright ideas?

Reply 6

unknown demon

15

I remember someone I met through a friend who was a quant for JpMorgan he did maths at Ox, but apparently he was amazingly gifted at maths, he only did a Bsc.

Reply 7

Who?

1

JP Morgan is not a big quant house - they are a bit outdated :p:

Reply 8

HoodTrader

I spoke to a friend that works for Barcap the other day and he said that they bin applications that are below an MSc for trading, so I imagine top banks will be looking for an MSc in a quantitative subject as a bare minimum for quant roles.

Reply 9

Stubo

Howard

No.

However, my friend seems to think that, for Oxbridge, you need a masters for phd for every department except geography. I am sure this is non-sense. Could a current/ex student confirm my thinking?

Reply 10

Who?

1

Stubo

However, my friend seems to think that, for Oxbridge, you need a masters for phd for every department except geography. I am sure this is non-sense. Could a current/ex student confirm my thinking?

You do not need a masters.

Reply 11

Stubo

I know this. Do you think the majority of oxbridge phd students have masters or undergrad?

Reply 12

Who?

1

Stubo

I know this. Do you think the majority of oxbridge phd students have masters or undergrad?

Majority of PhD students from top 5 unis (Ox, Cam, LSE, Imp, UCL) will have masters, simply because it's quite difficult to get straight on to a PhD programme without a masters (I am talking about MPhil, not MSc).

Reply 13

Cexy

Stubo

I know this. Do you think the majority of oxbridge phd students have masters or undergrad?

Almost every PhD student that I know (mainly at Cambridge, some at Oxford, Warwick, Durham, Bristol, ...) has either a Masters degree or equivalent, or has done a four year undergraduate course. You don't need one, but it seems to be the norm in this neck of the woods. In the end, though, there are almost no formal requirements for starting a PhD. You just need someone who's willing to supervise you and a source of funding.

As regards becoming a quant, I think that this guide is particularly useful. Bear in mind that as well as your quantitative training they'll expect you to have learnt (through self-study if necessary) at the very least, how to price common derivatives using the B-S equation, and how to derive the B-S equation itself (I'm told that there are very common interview questions). I'd recommend knowing Hull back-to-front if you really want to become a quant.

Reply 14

Stubo

Alexey

Majority of PhD students from top 5 unis (Ox, Cam, LSE, Imp, UCL) will have masters, simply because it's quite difficult to get straight on to a PhD programme without a masters (I am talking about MPhil, not MSc).

Thanks. My mate got into Durham with funding from a Univ ranked ~35 in UK (alot will not have heard of the univ!), he was up against 5 masters students on the day. They said he got it hands down, but once you are there, its all down to interview performance, isnt it? He knew his stuff and had a very impressive dissertation, so that is what made it I think.

Cexy, what this guy was saying to me was that you 'HAD' to have the masters degree to get onto the phd for oxbridge, but he has lots of misconceptions about oxbridge, like a lot of people, and probably will never believe otherwise. He has ideas that in some Oxford colleges, you have to wear a certain dress code every night to eat with certain people, and that you must dine at certain times etc. As I said, he will never believe that its a lotof bull (well I hope it is!).

Some of my lecturers here have bee so ignorant to say that people who do masters are just doing it because they dont know what they want to do, and so it is a complete waste of time! I am actually surprised that the top 9% of undergrads who get that first class degree for each subject (on average) are not able to get into the top uni's with just the undergrad degree, when im sure many people be capable.

Reply 15

aaaaz

10

I'm sure people who graduate top of the year from Oxbridge in Mathematics can secure a place as a Quant. But I doubt other people would have the same success.

You do not need a Masters to score a P.hD. at Oxbridge. (unless you're applying for Mathematics, then you need Part III.)

Reply 16

Stubo

First point, unlikely I believe.
Second, I know, I was merely asking the norm.

mark joshi

Generally, a PhD (or almost a PhD) is a necessity to get a quant
job. I would advise against starting before it’s awarded as it tends to
be hard to get it done whilst doing a busy job.
Having a masters degree in Financial mathematics but no PhD tends
to lead into jobs in banking in risk or trading support but not straight
quant jobs. Banking is becoming progressively more mathematical so
the knowledge is useful in many areas in banks. Some people then
manage to move into quant later on.

Reply 17

aaaaz

10

If you're referring to my first part, why so?

Reply 18

Elles

17

Stubo

However, my friend seems to think that, for Oxbridge, you need a masters for phd for every department except geography. I am sure this is non-sense. Could a current/ex student confirm my thinking?

It is.
Physiology, Biochemistry & Dept of Clinical Medicine subjects can definitely be added to the not-needing-a-masters to start a DPhil list too...

Reply 19

Stubo

cheers, another friend from a uni ranked around 30 in uk went down to oxford for an interview to study the radiocarbon curve, apparently he thinks he has no chance because all the other applicants had masters. but I personally think he just ballsed the interview.

To become a quant...

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