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UK will be like the 3rd world country? Wow!

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Original post by asmuse123
Actually, I live in a diverse suburb. While you're right, that different cultures can't mesh together, we should be helping them become British like us using assimilation programmes which can be done by the neighbourhood. My neighbourhood does that and there's little crime and other problems. So, I think the Government should be building houses, we've plenty of space, just keep Scotland and Wales low-populated for farming, and help foreigners become British through assimilation programmes.


You have so much to learn. You think you can just make economic migrants want to be British? I don't know why I even respond to people like you. I have met people who hate British culture yet you believe we can assimilate them into society. Good ******* luck with that!
Original post by TheCitizenAct
Ah yes, it's not down to immigrants once again isn't it?

4.5 million additional people, many of whom will be significantly less well off than existing residents, will bring the average down. It's basic economics.


OK genius, so why did Labour manage to bring child poverty down so precipitously while increasing immigration?

Why will immigrants be less well off than existing residents? They also hold jobs and create demand.

In fact, EU immigrants are the only group who are net contributors to the UK economy, presumably because they come here singly in their prime to work, rather than needing support and schooling in infancy and support and healthcare in old age.

It's time for you to accept that sometimes the free market fetishism and spending cuts fetishism in government has adverse consequences to provision for the poorest without, shockingly, it being anything to do with immigrants.

You are forever banging on about manipulation and misdirection by the powers that be and then you turn around and try to convince starving children that the foreigner living next door has been stealing food out of their mouth.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by asmuse123
Actually, I live in a diverse suburb. While you're right, that different cultures can't mesh together, we should be helping them become British like us using assimilation programmes which can be done by the neighbourhood. My neighbourhood does that and there's little crime and other problems. So, I think the Government should be building houses, we've plenty of space, just keep Scotland and Wales low-populated for farming, and help foreigners become British through assimilation programmes.


British like us? So, just to clarify, you're advocating diversity while simultaneously advocating 'un-diversification'?

How do you 'make them live us'? A sermon? A very long stick with a carrot dangling from the end? A sprinkling of behavioural modification here, a dash of social engineering there?

When will people learn you can't engineer human beings to conform to your morality or your way of life? They aren't cyborgs, there's no mute button, you can't just boot them up and power them down.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by scrotgrot
OK genius, so why did Labour manage to bring child poverty down so precipitously while increasing immigration?

Why will immigrants be less well off than existing residents? They also hold jobs and create demand.

In fact, EU immigrants are the only group who are net contributors to the UK economy, presumably because they come here singly in their prime to work, rather than needing support and schooling in infancy and support and healthcare in old age.

It's time for you to accept that sometimes the free market fetishism in government has adverse consequences.

You are forever banging on about manipulation and misdirection by the powers that be and then you turn around and try to convince starving children that the foreigner living next door has been stealing food out of their mouth.


What's with the animosity? Tone it down.

1. The report your're referring to - CReAM I imagine? - is bogus. It looked at arrivals over a cherry-picked time frame between 2001-2011, it didn't consider resident migrants, it placed responsibility for educating first-generation migrants on existing residents and made a host of spurious estimates about tax revenues. Nor did it factor in the fact that migrants, em, age. It was also written by a guy who suggested EE migration would be no more than 13,000 per year, and it would be disastrous if we failed to join the Euro. He's clearly incentivised to confirm his own bias.

2. You have as little evidence to suggest they will be as well off as the resident population as I do they won't be. Then again, we could just compare average wages across the European continent, or other probable recruitment hot beds, particularly areas where Labour like to send out search parties (courtesy Peter Mandelson).

I also presume they'll be less well off because those would be the types of migrants which would be more likely to vote Labour - while you may not believe that, there's nothing to deny Labour is incentivised to bring as many people to the UK as they can. They own the BME vote (by about 600,000 at last check). They trade in poverty (see this article) - it's their currency - and the market is bleak.

3. With regards to 'child poverty' (a spurious term if ever there was one), can you provide the data please?

4. No, I'm not - you're saying that, I've never said anything of the sort. Again, if you want a discussion, tone it down.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Gears265
You have so much to learn. You think you can just make economic migrants want to be British? I don't know why I even respond to people like you. I have met people who hate British culture yet you believe we can assimilate them into society. Good ******* luck with that!


Original post by TheCitizenAct
British like us? So, just to clarify, you're advocating diversity while simultaneously advocating 'un-diversification'?

How do you 'make them live us'? A sermon? A very long stick with a carrot dangling from the end? A sprinkling of behavioural modification here, a dash of social engineering there?

When will people learn you can't engineer human beings to conform to your morality or your way of life? They aren't cyborgs, there's no mute button, you can't just boot them up and power them down.


Well, actually, my parents are from East Africa and Muslim. They're educated so they got good jobs and told me the best way to survive in a new country was to assimilate into the culture, they did that, I grew up here and so already had the culture and they helped new migrants to our city to assimilate into the English culture. So, it's not impossible.
Original post by asmuse123
Well, actually, my parents are from East Africa and Muslim. They're educated so they got good jobs and told me the best way to survive in a new country was to assimilate into the culture, they did that, I grew up here and so already had the culture and they helped new migrants to our city to assimilate into the English culture. So, it's not impossible.


Where I live, say 100,000 or so in the town. 70% non-English. And guess what. No English culture exists. Rarely hear English spoken. Segregation sky high. And a complete dump it is. Don't compare your one experience with reality. Look at Birmingham. West, East, North and South London, Luton...the list goes on. Absolute **** holes.
Original post by asmuse123
Well, actually, my parents are from East Africa and Muslim. They're educated so they got good jobs and told me the best way to survive in a new country was to assimilate into the culture, they did that, I grew up here and so already had the culture and they helped new migrants to our city to assimilate into the English culture. So, it's not impossible.


I agree with your parents however, patently, many don't. How do I know this? Look anywhere, in any which direction you choose.

Millions of migrants don't assimilate, they congregate en masse (in certain areas of the country). They socialise within, they marry within and they often refuse to adopt the native tongue (the last figures I read stipulated 300,000 people in London can't speak English). That's not multiculturalism, it's the complete opposite - it's cultural displacement and cultural homogeneity. No wonder local communities are furious; wouldn't you be?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Gears265
Where I live, say 100,000 or so in the town. 70% non-English. And guess what. No English culture exists. Rarely hear English spoken. Segregation sky high. And a complete dump it is. Don't compare your one experience with reality. Look at Birmingham. West, East, North and South London, Luton...the list goes on. Absolute **** holes.


Yes, because they feel alienated by England. However, if other migrants who assimilated into English culture helped them assimilate working with the Government, it wouldn't be impossible. And there are already some programmes helping to do that, not only in my city, but other cities, too.
Original post by TheCitizenAct
I agree with your parents however, patently, many don't. How do I know this? Look anywhere, in any which direction you choose.

Millions of migrants don't assimilate, they congregate en masse (in certain areas of the country). They socialise within, they marry within and they often refuse to adopt the native tongue. That's not multiculturalism, it's the complete opposite - it's cultural displacement and cultural homogeneity. No wonder local communities are furious; wouldn't you be?


Like I said to Gear:

Yes, because they feel alienated by England. However, if other migrants who assimilated into English culture helped them assimilate working with the Government, it wouldn't be impossible. And there are already some programmes helping to do that, not only in my city, but other cities, too.
Original post by asmuse123
Like I said to Gear:


1. It isn't our responsibility to adapt. Why would I go to your house and expect you to adapt to my way of life? That would be ridiculous.

2. Whether you believe in this or not, the facts are clear - it isn't working and it hasn't worked. The experiment has long since failed, even Angela Merkel has conceded this.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by TheCitizenAct
1. It isn't our responsibility to adapt. Why should I come to your house and expect you to adapt to my way of life? That would be ridiculous.

2. Whether you believe in this or not, the facts are clear - it isn't working and it hasn't worked. The experiment has long since failed, even Angela Merkel has conceded this.


Wait, you're a migrant? I thought you were ethnically English? Well, either way, I believe that migrants can definitely assimilate into English culture with the right help.
Original post by asmuse123
Yes, because they feel alienated by England. However, if other migrants who assimilated into English culture helped them assimilate working with the Government, it wouldn't be impossible. And there are already some programmes helping to do that, not only in my city, but other cities, too.


You are very very blind. The fact many arrive with no English and make no effort to learn it (when the facilities and help are available) shows the effort to integrate. Im sure the extremists who rallied to promote sharia in east London were feeling alienated. Good god!
Original post by asmuse123
Wait, you're a migrant? I thought you were ethnically English? Well, either way, I believe that migrants can definitely assimilate into English culture with the right help.


Well, that's the problem. You believe, I observe. This isn't a religion, belief is irrelevant, it's people's lives - their communities have been absolutely wiped out in the space of 20 years. They aren't your social experiment.

I'm not a migrant.
Original post by Gears265
You are very very blind. The fact many arrive with no English and make no effort to learn it (when the facilities and help are available) shows the effort to integrate. Im sure the extremists who rallied to promote sharia in east London were feeling alienated. Good god!


Because they need the help of assimilated migrants so they believe it works, but there aren't enough since there haven't been many assimilation programmes. However, over time, they will naturally assimilate, like the Jamaicans, or we can do it in less time by asking assimilated migrants to help new migrants assimilate into English culture.
Original post by TheCitizenAct
Well, that's the problem. You believe, I observe. This isn't a religion, belief is irrelevant, it's people's lives - their communities have been absolutely wiped out in the space of 20 years. They aren't your social experiment.

I'm not a migrant.


Well, we either help them assimilate or more communities will be wiped out. Choose one.
Original post by asmuse123
Because they need the help of assimilated migrants so they believe it works, but there aren't enough since there haven't been many assimilation programmes. However, over time, they will naturally assimilate, like the Jamaicans, or we can do it in less time by asking assimilated migrants to help new migrants assimilate into English culture.


English culture does not exist anymore in these areas so what culture do your refer to?
Original post by asmuse123
Well, we either help them assimilate or more communities will be wiped out. Choose one.


Excuse me?

I'm going to shoot you in the stomach or a stab you in the neck. Pick one. My answers don't exist within the confines of your beliefs or your religion. I'm not your play toy.

I pick door number three. A reduction in the actual problem, alongside 68% of the population (according to the British Social Attitudes Survey).
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Gears265
English culture does not exist anymore in these areas so what culture do your refer to?


English culture, what else? Do you honestly believe English culture has been destroyed everywhere? It's still in diverse cities and towns. It can come to dominate all cultures in England. Look what happened when the Normans came, they adapted to English culture and gave us some new words. They did the same when they went from Norway to France, before they came to England.
Original post by TheCitizenAct
Excuse me?

I'm going to shoot you in the stomach or a stab you in the neck. Pick one. My answers don't exist within the confines of your beliefs or your religion. I'm not your play toy.

I pick door number three. A reduction in the actual problem, alongside 68% of the population (according to the British Social Attitudes Survey).


By "reduction", are you suggesting we kick non-assimilated migrants out of the country, because you're just sounding like BNP at that point. And anyway, my answers are perfectly reasonable answers as migrants can either assimilate into the culture. Or the culture will be removed from the city by the migrants. I choose to help them assimilate rather than remove English culture.
Original post by asmuse123
By "reduction", are you suggesting we kick non-assimilated migrants out of the country, because you're just sounding like BNP at that point. And anyway, my answers are perfectly reasonable answers as migrants can either assimilate into the culture. Or the culture will be removed from the city by the migrants. I choose to help them assimilate rather than remove English culture.


No, your answers are entirely unreasonable, entirely illogical and predicated on belief, rather than observation. You believe you can engineer human beings to conform to your opinion (like every good totalitarian); engineering hasn't worked - we've taken in millions of migrants, and millions haven't assimilated, they've congregated. That's a fact.

The facts are on my side, a subscription to an ideology, and a belief system, is on your side.

I cited the British Social Attitudes Survey. If you're not familiar with that then I really have no idea what you're doing in this debate.
(edited 8 years ago)

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