PLEASE READ: For all pharmacists, pharmacy students and prospective students!!!!
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Hi, I'm a prospective pharmacy student who will be undergraduate this year. I'm recently hearing lots of doomed future of pharmacy i.e. no jobs etc. However, I can't help it but study pharmacy, 'cause that's where I should, and only could be. I love all aspects of pharmacy i.e. all the stories behind the drug actions and numerous interactions with other people and patients. Also, there are plenty of opportunities to move out of UK and find jobs abroad which I think is a good advantage. But most of all, the news will not affect those who, like me, love pharmacy all through, and who are prepared to throw themselves in and carry the career their whole lives, helping out patients.
I may sound stupid, but I've set my heart to pharmacy, and I'm ready for it, so yeah!
I may sound stupid, but I've set my heart to pharmacy, and I'm ready for it, so yeah!
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by neldee95
One thing about pharmacy is that you can always move to another country (: and have a designated path. Just get your pharmacy degree and relocate guys. There will always be a place for you...if not here then in the US or UAE.( I hear pharmacists make an average of £80K or so in the US). I would do pharmacy over any of these science degrees any day! Plus pharmacists are quite respected. I absolutely adore my degree . (Third year pharmacy student speaking).
. (Third year pharmacy student speaking).Pharmacists are very well paid in the USA in retail but they work you really hard. Working 14 hour days, 3 days on then 4 off, etc is one pattern I've read about.
I really loved my degree too. But back then, (before you were born!) it was just the 3 yr degree.
Sadly I disagree on the respect. Pharmacists are not really respected by the general public in the UK, SOME people do respect you, and are very grateful for your help and advice, but I have noticed over the last decade or so, there is a tendency for people treat you like a shop assistant, many people are not aware you have a degree and have to train for 5 years.
Original post by CinnamonSunset
Hi, I'm a prospective pharmacy student who will be undergraduate this year. I'm recently hearing lots of doomed future of pharmacy i.e. no jobs etc. However, I can't help it but study pharmacy, 'cause that's where I should, and only could be. I love all aspects of pharmacy i.e. all the stories behind the drug actions and numerous interactions with other people and patients. Also, there are plenty of opportunities to move out of UK and find jobs abroad which I think is a good advantage. But most of all, the news will not affect those who, like me, love pharmacy all through, and who are prepared to throw themselves in and carry the career their whole lives, helping out patients.
I may sound stupid, but I've set my heart to pharmacy, and I'm ready for it, so yeah!
I may sound stupid, but I've set my heart to pharmacy, and I'm ready for it, so yeah!
Your post has most definitely cheered me up - a little bit of optimism never hurt anyone. Work hard and you will do well. Good luck with your pharmacy career!
Original post by petzneo
Your post has most definitely cheered me up - a little bit of optimism never hurt anyone. Work hard and you will do well. Good luck with your pharmacy career!
Thank you
Hope more people will sign up this petition!Story in Chemist and Druggist mag that Govt expects between 1000 and 3000 pharmacies to close as a result of 6% cuts to pharmacy funding.
Very concerning, for those in pharmacy AND those thinking of doing pharmacy.
would advise all pharmacy students and potential pharmacy students to sign up to C&D mag and pharmacy forum site to keep up to date with what is currently happening in the world of pharmacy.
Very concerning, for those in pharmacy AND those thinking of doing pharmacy.
would advise all pharmacy students and potential pharmacy students to sign up to C&D mag and pharmacy forum site to keep up to date with what is currently happening in the world of pharmacy.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by petzneo
Pharmacy is still is well-paid compared to other over-saturated science degrees e.g. Biomedical sciences...
Many of those who study science degrees end up going into teaching or graduate-entry business posts due to lack of available jobs.
BUT if the government does not start appreciating the fact that the pharmacy school numbers are too high-things will spiral out of control. It will mean major competition for job roles.
At present, a hospital pharmacist locus can get paid up to £32 an hour, community locum can get up to £25 an hour....but this will change!
(I quote those figures from friends currently paid and doing those jobs)
Many of those who study science degrees end up going into teaching or graduate-entry business posts due to lack of available jobs.
BUT if the government does not start appreciating the fact that the pharmacy school numbers are too high-things will spiral out of control. It will mean major competition for job roles.
At present, a hospital pharmacist locus can get paid up to £32 an hour, community locum can get up to £25 an hour....but this will change!
(I quote those figures from friends currently paid and doing those jobs)
most people i know doing biomed do it as an access to medicine and go the long route. Plus pharmacy is poorly paid once the cuts came after the recession they realised pharmacists didnt need to be paid so much. Compared to optom audiologists radiography dietician etc pharmacy job wise isnt simply as good as it once was.
There is number of reason why pharmacy is not the best choice. Recent cuts are just one part of the story. It is estimated that 1000-3000 pharmacies will close in coming years. This will put more pressure on the pharmacy job market which already looks poorly. Rates per hour are falling and believe me some newly registered pharmacists work for 14 pounds / hour or work 2-3 times a week as there are simply too many pharmacist.
Do not apply.
If your are on the course, stop pharmacy now and do another degree.
Do not apply.
If your are on the course, stop pharmacy now and do another degree.
But if you work in a pharmacists shop they get paid based off selling drugs etc? Which is expensive anyway so is that affected can you also tell me if people are doing pharmacy now what's the pay like after graduating for locum and working at chemists etc
How ridiculous, I am about to finish my final exams and start pre-reg in August - why on earth would I drop out?
There are plenty of opportunities for pharmacy students - community, hospital, research, veterinary, further qualifications, independent prescribing.
Money shouldn't be the big factor. You should WANT to study pharmacy and to help people. Plus the money isn't bad at all! Pharmacists in the NHS earn more money than other health care professionals.
Due to the boom in pharmacy students, loads of people aren't applying anymore and numbers are falling in universities. This means there will be a fall in the number of pharmacists qualifying - resulting in more people applying etc. It's just a circle that a lot of courses and professions go around.
There's no need to be so negative when there are so many positive things to say about pharmacy.
There are plenty of opportunities for pharmacy students - community, hospital, research, veterinary, further qualifications, independent prescribing.
Money shouldn't be the big factor. You should WANT to study pharmacy and to help people. Plus the money isn't bad at all! Pharmacists in the NHS earn more money than other health care professionals.
Due to the boom in pharmacy students, loads of people aren't applying anymore and numbers are falling in universities. This means there will be a fall in the number of pharmacists qualifying - resulting in more people applying etc. It's just a circle that a lot of courses and professions go around.
There's no need to be so negative when there are so many positive things to say about pharmacy.
Original post by Twigleheight
How ridiculous, I am about to finish my final exams and start pre-reg in August - why on earth would I drop out?
There are plenty of opportunities for pharmacy students - community, hospital, research, veterinary, further qualifications, independent prescribing.
Money shouldn't be the big factor. You should WANT to study pharmacy and to help people. Plus the money isn't bad at all! Pharmacists in the NHS earn more money than other health care professionals.
Due to the boom in pharmacy students, loads of people aren't applying anymore and numbers are falling in universities. This means there will be a fall in the number of pharmacists qualifying - resulting in more people applying etc. It's just a circle that a lot of courses and professions go around.
There's no need to be so negative when there are so many positive things to say about pharmacy.
There are plenty of opportunities for pharmacy students - community, hospital, research, veterinary, further qualifications, independent prescribing.
Money shouldn't be the big factor. You should WANT to study pharmacy and to help people. Plus the money isn't bad at all! Pharmacists in the NHS earn more money than other health care professionals.
Due to the boom in pharmacy students, loads of people aren't applying anymore and numbers are falling in universities. This means there will be a fall in the number of pharmacists qualifying - resulting in more people applying etc. It's just a circle that a lot of courses and professions go around.
There's no need to be so negative when there are so many positive things to say about pharmacy.
First point, totally agree, finish up and get a degree and, get on the register.
Second point, yes, very admirable, but most people have debts to pay off and bills to pay!
So pharmacists earn more than doctors and dentists ?! really??
Evidence of student numbers falling please?
Could you list those positives for us please? If there are so many, perhaps remind some of us poor cynical old souls of a few of them! I'll start you off with no pay rise for 8 years and up to 21% cuts in various locum rates in various chains in community. Now, you carry on..... (the only way is up !)
I hate to rain on your parade, and I do wish you all the best at the start of your career, but I think you need to do some research for all the very broad, unsubstantiated claims you make.
I am currently a pre-reg pharmacist in community with my other half of placement in hospital. I certainly feel that the degree is worth it at the end. You learn so much after graduating.
The problem is that public and NHS do not value pharmacist as much as they value other healthcare professionals. This has meant that NHS look into pharmacy first to make any sort of cuts. Nurses are more respected than pharmacist even though we spend the same number of years learning as doctors. I personally blame the dysfunctional NHS system. Its a system allocates meaningless funding for wasteful commissioning services such as needle exchange.
The jobs are becoming more scarced in pharmacy due to the rise in pharmacist eapecially in London. I certainly feel the only way to earn big in pharmacy is by locum work and doing shifts most people won't be prepared to do. Hospital pharmacist are poorly paid and they work you very hard and the clinical diploma is very difficult. Moving up the bands are not easy either as there are a lot of competition for places. So essentially you could be stuck with 25k-30k for the next 6-7 years as a hospital pharmacist whereas regular locum work will yield about 40k per year.
Best advice is to look at industry e.g. astrazeneca, gsk,Pfizer and norvamentis. Or any other small industrial firms as there are better chances of earning bigger money in the future. E.g I'm thinking of becoming a QP, qualified person. Its probably the most boring job on the world but if you can get into industry as a pharmacist and work in manufacturing and batch controls. The training for it can be less than 3 years and you can be commanding 40k-50k. QP is a very niche role and there are quite a lot of demand for it all the time. After several years of experience, you can start commanding higher salaries of between 70-80k and even break 100k barrier after about 20 years. Other roles may include working as a patent attorney,although they are really competitive and they tend to not value pharmacist applying. They although are a bit elitist too. They cherry pick from Oxford and Cambridge graduates with rubbish degrees like zoology which no knowledge of patents and drug/device formulation and design. Yet it is still worth a try.
The problem is that public and NHS do not value pharmacist as much as they value other healthcare professionals. This has meant that NHS look into pharmacy first to make any sort of cuts. Nurses are more respected than pharmacist even though we spend the same number of years learning as doctors. I personally blame the dysfunctional NHS system. Its a system allocates meaningless funding for wasteful commissioning services such as needle exchange.
The jobs are becoming more scarced in pharmacy due to the rise in pharmacist eapecially in London. I certainly feel the only way to earn big in pharmacy is by locum work and doing shifts most people won't be prepared to do. Hospital pharmacist are poorly paid and they work you very hard and the clinical diploma is very difficult. Moving up the bands are not easy either as there are a lot of competition for places. So essentially you could be stuck with 25k-30k for the next 6-7 years as a hospital pharmacist whereas regular locum work will yield about 40k per year.
Best advice is to look at industry e.g. astrazeneca, gsk,Pfizer and norvamentis. Or any other small industrial firms as there are better chances of earning bigger money in the future. E.g I'm thinking of becoming a QP, qualified person. Its probably the most boring job on the world but if you can get into industry as a pharmacist and work in manufacturing and batch controls. The training for it can be less than 3 years and you can be commanding 40k-50k. QP is a very niche role and there are quite a lot of demand for it all the time. After several years of experience, you can start commanding higher salaries of between 70-80k and even break 100k barrier after about 20 years. Other roles may include working as a patent attorney,although they are really competitive and they tend to not value pharmacist applying. They although are a bit elitist too. They cherry pick from Oxford and Cambridge graduates with rubbish degrees like zoology which no knowledge of patents and drug/device formulation and design. Yet it is still worth a try.
After seeing this thread I thought I'd chime in as a practicing locum community pharmacist.
I graduated in 2015 with a first in Pharmacy, having done a year pre-reg in hospital. I passed the pre-reg exam in June 2015 (first sitting) and immediately registered and started working from August onwards.
I now locum in community pharmacies.
I used to be able to get about 4 days a week locum work around my area, at a rate of £19-£21 per hour. Ever since the following September pre-reg re-sitters passed the second attempt exam a few months after, I now get about 2 days if I'm lucky (but I always get at least one day a week). I now have to drive very far out of my designated area to get work.
Competition for work is there, it is real, and it is measurable. It will only get worse and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any improvement to look forward to in the future.
Everyone knows about the new schools of pharmacy opening up and this is just making the problem worse unfortunately.
With the pharmacy cuts, you can expect plenty of community pharmacists to lose their jobs and this will further increase competition for currently existing jobs.
Big chains will likely be able to keep their pharmacies open despite the cuts.
Pharmacy jobs in other sectors such as hospital, industry are already very competitive, as they always have been. The pharmacy cuts will encourage community pharmacists to shift into hospital and this will increase competition further.
I would strongly urge anyone thinking about pharmacy as a career to reconsider. Consider how things are going to be when you graduate, and not how they currently are - pharmacy job prospects are changing, but this year it began changing fast
I graduated in 2015 with a first in Pharmacy, having done a year pre-reg in hospital. I passed the pre-reg exam in June 2015 (first sitting) and immediately registered and started working from August onwards.
I now locum in community pharmacies.
I used to be able to get about 4 days a week locum work around my area, at a rate of £19-£21 per hour. Ever since the following September pre-reg re-sitters passed the second attempt exam a few months after, I now get about 2 days if I'm lucky (but I always get at least one day a week). I now have to drive very far out of my designated area to get work.
Competition for work is there, it is real, and it is measurable. It will only get worse and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any improvement to look forward to in the future.
Everyone knows about the new schools of pharmacy opening up and this is just making the problem worse unfortunately.
With the pharmacy cuts, you can expect plenty of community pharmacists to lose their jobs and this will further increase competition for currently existing jobs.
Big chains will likely be able to keep their pharmacies open despite the cuts.
Pharmacy jobs in other sectors such as hospital, industry are already very competitive, as they always have been. The pharmacy cuts will encourage community pharmacists to shift into hospital and this will increase competition further.
I would strongly urge anyone thinking about pharmacy as a career to reconsider. Consider how things are going to be when you graduate, and not how they currently are - pharmacy job prospects are changing, but this year it began changing fast
(edited 7 years ago)
I totally agree with you Msmith. I am aware of the lack of locum jobs available at the moment. I am also aware that some areas of the country has more locum/better prospects as a pharmacist compared to other parts of the country. E.g one could say there are better locum shifts in the north of uk compared to the south of uk. London I'm guessing is completely saturated with pharmacists.
Anyone know how brexit will be affecting pharmacy?? Like what are the negative stuff can we expect?
- lost 3rd year
- lost 3rd year
I don't think it should have any negative effect on pharmacy at all. All I can think of are positives. Since, restricting EU members from coming to the UK, may promote less wages being undercut by llyods and boots. Also less European pharmacist will be recruited into jobs , reducing the competition further
Original post by Peace4life
I don't think it should have any negative effect on pharmacy at all. All I can think of are positives. Since, restricting EU members from coming to the UK, may promote less wages being undercut by llyods and boots. Also less European pharmacist will be recruited into jobs , reducing the competition further
ohh I see
Original post by petzneo
l applaud you for your initiative & thank you for bringing this to our attention. [I did try to sign however, the petition has been closed
]I just want to be a little cheeky as I have the Pharmacists on this thread, NHS bursary is applicable to all healthcare courses... except Pharmacy?? When we are the ones taking on extra responsibilities to reduce the burden on fellow healthcare staff. Please join me & sign below to show support that pharmacy students are also deserving of this scheme.
https://www.change.org/p/jeremy-corbyn-mp-nhs-bursary-pharmacy-students?recruiter=737387126&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=share_email_responsive
Original post by CinnamonSunset
Hi, I'm a prospective pharmacy student who will be undergraduate this year. I'm recently hearing lots of doomed future of pharmacy i.e. no jobs etc. However, I can't help it but study pharmacy, 'cause that's where I should, and only could be. I love all aspects of pharmacy i.e. all the stories behind the drug actions and numerous interactions with other people and patients. Also, there are plenty of opportunities to move out of UK and find jobs abroad which I think is a good advantage. But most of all, the news will not affect those who, like me, love pharmacy all through, and who are prepared to throw themselves in and carry the career their whole lives, helping out patients.
I may sound stupid, but I've set my heart to pharmacy, and I'm ready for it, so yeah!
I may sound stupid, but I've set my heart to pharmacy, and I'm ready for it, so yeah!
holla
There is absolutely and certainly NOT a lack of jobs in pharmacy. I am a graduate and was offered 4 different pre-registration jobs for the coming year. After this there are a whole plethora of directions my career could take, and a vast number of different, varied and enjoyable jobs I can work in.
The beauty of holding a pharmacy degree is that it is so versatile. I can work in community, hospital, academia, industry (GSK/AZ/Pfizer etc), GP surgeries, A&E departments, finance, clinical commissioning groups, for councils and governments, and many many more areas. To get put off such an incredible career based on the premise that if you locum for a large chain community pharmacy in one part of the country your pay has decreased my £1 per hour would be a massive shame. The entire NHS is feeling the pinch at the moment.
It's important to ask why the locum rate has dropped. It used to be artificially high because years ago there simply weren't enough pharmacists to supply demand, so naturally the price to hire one skyrocketed. As a result, locum requests were filled with whoever was available to do the job, not by the best person for the job. In a patient-facing role this is dangerous, as the quality of care the patient receives is low, and trust in the profession is then eroded, as has happened in pharmacy in recent years.
New schools of pharmacy provide innovative new ways of educating students, as existing schools, although strong and established, can fall into a "this is the way we've always done things" trap. This is a danger in the education of healthcare professionals as healthcare is constantly changing and adapting, so education and training needs to too. A growth in the number of pharmacy students graduating with new knowledge and skills means the locum rates are dropping, as there are more pharmacists able to fill these roles. Competition has driven prices down but also driven the quality of pharmacists up, unfortunately resulting in those less skilled and upset by the situation to take to online forums to complain.
It all comes down to this: do you want to get an artificially high wage for doing a mediocre job, or do you want to take ownership of your career, shape and structure it however you want through a vast, varied and opportunity filled profession, and get a more than fair wage for a rewarding and exciting career? If you love what you do, you never have to "work" a day in your life. I've loved my pathway into pharmacy so far, and yes some may call me naive and only a recent graduate, but my generation are the mindset of the future of the profession, and if you want to join us in creating a bold new profession that puts patients at the centre of what we do, then be a pharmacist.
The beauty of holding a pharmacy degree is that it is so versatile. I can work in community, hospital, academia, industry (GSK/AZ/Pfizer etc), GP surgeries, A&E departments, finance, clinical commissioning groups, for councils and governments, and many many more areas. To get put off such an incredible career based on the premise that if you locum for a large chain community pharmacy in one part of the country your pay has decreased my £1 per hour would be a massive shame. The entire NHS is feeling the pinch at the moment.
It's important to ask why the locum rate has dropped. It used to be artificially high because years ago there simply weren't enough pharmacists to supply demand, so naturally the price to hire one skyrocketed. As a result, locum requests were filled with whoever was available to do the job, not by the best person for the job. In a patient-facing role this is dangerous, as the quality of care the patient receives is low, and trust in the profession is then eroded, as has happened in pharmacy in recent years.
New schools of pharmacy provide innovative new ways of educating students, as existing schools, although strong and established, can fall into a "this is the way we've always done things" trap. This is a danger in the education of healthcare professionals as healthcare is constantly changing and adapting, so education and training needs to too. A growth in the number of pharmacy students graduating with new knowledge and skills means the locum rates are dropping, as there are more pharmacists able to fill these roles. Competition has driven prices down but also driven the quality of pharmacists up, unfortunately resulting in those less skilled and upset by the situation to take to online forums to complain.
It all comes down to this: do you want to get an artificially high wage for doing a mediocre job, or do you want to take ownership of your career, shape and structure it however you want through a vast, varied and opportunity filled profession, and get a more than fair wage for a rewarding and exciting career? If you love what you do, you never have to "work" a day in your life. I've loved my pathway into pharmacy so far, and yes some may call me naive and only a recent graduate, but my generation are the mindset of the future of the profession, and if you want to join us in creating a bold new profession that puts patients at the centre of what we do, then be a pharmacist.
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