Why are vegans so up in your face about veganism?
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Take a look at things from our point of view for a second. Why do you think we abstain from meat? Any guesses? Admittedly, we vegetarians aren't a homogeneous group so I can only speak for myself.
My main reason is that I can see with my own eyes that animals are sentient creatures perfectly capable of feeling unnecessary pain (unnecessary being the operative word). IMHO, eating meat in developed countries is pretty barbaric and inexcusable given the alternatives we're swamped with. If that boxer David Haye can maintain his mahoosive mass on a vegetarian diet, so can the rest of us.
Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly sympathise with meat eaters because meat does taste good, but must you be so weak as to submit to the demands of your conditioned taste buds at the expense of innocent, voiceless, sentient animals? If you ask me, I sense a huge seismic shift in attitude over the next 50 years. I think our descendants will be appalled at the way we treat animals today. Remember that it was the passivity of the majority and their refusal to listen to the minority that allowed slavery to stay rife for as long as it was.
Remember: just because something has existed since time immemorial doesn't make it right. Argumentum ad antiquitatem, anyone??
Sorry if my comment has come across a bit heavy-handed. I promise I'm not having a go at you. Errboddeh one big happeh famalan
EDIT: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/sep/07/food.foodanddrink
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/03/eating-less-meat-curb-climate-change
My main reason is that I can see with my own eyes that animals are sentient creatures perfectly capable of feeling unnecessary pain (unnecessary being the operative word). IMHO, eating meat in developed countries is pretty barbaric and inexcusable given the alternatives we're swamped with. If that boxer David Haye can maintain his mahoosive mass on a vegetarian diet, so can the rest of us.
Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly sympathise with meat eaters because meat does taste good, but must you be so weak as to submit to the demands of your conditioned taste buds at the expense of innocent, voiceless, sentient animals? If you ask me, I sense a huge seismic shift in attitude over the next 50 years. I think our descendants will be appalled at the way we treat animals today. Remember that it was the passivity of the majority and their refusal to listen to the minority that allowed slavery to stay rife for as long as it was.
Remember: just because something has existed since time immemorial doesn't make it right. Argumentum ad antiquitatem, anyone??
Sorry if my comment has come across a bit heavy-handed. I promise I'm not having a go at you. Errboddeh one big happeh famalan
EDIT: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/sep/07/food.foodanddrink
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/dec/03/eating-less-meat-curb-climate-change
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by difeo
I don't think veganism is healthier. Obviously eating processed red meat every day is bad for you, but the ideal diet would include plenty of oily fish, some poultry and red meat never or only very occasionally.
NO BABE
Original post by raaachek
NO BABE
good point
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Completely agree, even though I'm coming from the complete opposite ethical standpoint! People are far too disconnected from their food, they just like to pick up a blood-free, pretty, nicely packaged chicken breast from the supermarket. I honestly do believe that if people were better informed of what happens on farms and at abattoirs, and witnessed the fear and atmosphere or an abattoir and watched animals being killed, they would eat a lot less meat and treat what they did eat with far more respect (and buy organic etc. for higher welfare standards) if not give up meat altogether. I think life today makes it far too easy to forget that you're eating the flesh of another animal that isn't so different from you or i.
Mhm, mhm! Wish I could rep this!
Original post by DiddyDec
They still have a few thousands years before they discover fire?
No not speech, technology and reasoning. We are having a debate possibly hundreds of miles away from each other. We are not similar to other animals we are far superior.
No not speech, technology and reasoning. We are having a debate possibly hundreds of miles away from each other. We are not similar to other animals we are far superior.
My point with that was that we aren't so special. (And also it's pretty cool from a biologist's POV
)Hmm, I'd still disagree. It depends which species you're talking about and, actually, what you consider important when evaluating the 'value' of an animal (just to point it out, though, a life is a life imo):
- take Kanzi the bonobo. Speaks sign language, can effectively use it to communicate, and understand novel sentences (there's another one that's really cool but I can't find it
). Shows some understanding of reasoning- Koko the gorilla, also taught American Sign Language (although Koko's understanding could be due to operant conditioning)
- if you're setting aside things like morality as prerequisites for a higher valued species, then yes, I'd agree. But to use one factor is just wrong, scientifically. How about things like sentience, displayed throughout the animal kingdom? The ability to feel emotions like love and fear? A species' value isn't just reasoning or technological ability. To suggest so is fallacious
Original post by abruiseonthesky
My point with that was that we aren't so special. (And also it's pretty cool from a biologist's POV )
Hmm, I'd still disagree. It depends which species you're talking about and, actually, what you consider important when evaluating the 'value' of an animal (just to point it out, though, a life is a life imo):
- take Kanzi the bonobo. Speaks sign language, can effectively use it to communicate, and understand novel sentences (there's another one that's really cool but I can't find it). Shows some understanding of reasoning
- Koko the gorilla, also taught American Sign Language (although Koko's understanding could be due to operant conditioning)
- if you're setting aside things like morality as prerequisites for a higher valued species, then yes, I'd agree. But to use one factor is just wrong, scientifically. How about things like sentience, displayed throughout the animal kingdom? The ability to feel emotions like love and fear? A species' value isn't just reasoning or technological ability. To suggest so is fallacious
)Hmm, I'd still disagree. It depends which species you're talking about and, actually, what you consider important when evaluating the 'value' of an animal (just to point it out, though, a life is a life imo):
- take Kanzi the bonobo. Speaks sign language, can effectively use it to communicate, and understand novel sentences (there's another one that's really cool but I can't find it
). Shows some understanding of reasoning- Koko the gorilla, also taught American Sign Language (although Koko's understanding could be due to operant conditioning)
- if you're setting aside things like morality as prerequisites for a higher valued species, then yes, I'd agree. But to use one factor is just wrong, scientifically. How about things like sentience, displayed throughout the animal kingdom? The ability to feel emotions like love and fear? A species' value isn't just reasoning or technological ability. To suggest so is fallacious
omg YES, you are hitting the nail firmly on the head *admires with burning fervour*
Original post by raaachek
omg YES, you are hitting the nail firmly on the head *admires with burning fervour*
You're making me blush
Original post by raaachek
Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly sympathise with meat eaters because meat does taste good, but must you be so weak as to submit to the demands of your conditioned taste buds at the expense of innocent, voiceless, sentient animals?
Agreed. That's my response to 'but bacon/cheese tastes so good!!' (other than 'idgaf leave me alone to eat in peace okay I'm not pestering you about your bloody food') - does your lust for meat/cheese/eggs etc. really come before an animal's life in your priorities? Idk I just don't think I'll ever understand it.
None of my friends even know I'm vegan and it's been 9 months now. I don't really push it in anyone's face, unless they ask 'why aren't you eating x", I'll say that I don't like it or if they're really pushing it, I'll say I'm not into meat/milk/eggs. I bring it up in discussions about the environment, and how veganism can help combat the damage caused by rearing animals.
I think the sort of people who do push it into people's face are the overly enthusiastic bunch, which is good, but not when it's too obnoxious, as people associate veganism with being a prick, when really it's just one individual's disposition. Although, I find it strange that if a person who eats meat is overtly crazy over bacon or chicken wings to those who aren't, it's seen as acceptable.
I think the sort of people who do push it into people's face are the overly enthusiastic bunch, which is good, but not when it's too obnoxious, as people associate veganism with being a prick, when really it's just one individual's disposition. Although, I find it strange that if a person who eats meat is overtly crazy over bacon or chicken wings to those who aren't, it's seen as acceptable.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Agreed. That's my response to 'but bacon/cheese tastes so good!!' (other than 'idgaf leave me alone to eat in peace okay I'm not pestering you about your bloody food') - does your lust for meat/cheese/eggs etc. really come before an animal's life in your priorities? Idk I just don't think I'll ever understand it.
Exactly...
Original post by YaYazooGirl
None of my friends even know I'm vegan and it's been 9 months now. I don't really push it in anyone's face, unless they ask 'why aren't you eating x", I'll say that I don't like it or if they're really pushing it, I'll say I'm not into meat/milk/eggs. I bring it up in discussions about the environment, and how veganism can help combat the damage caused by rearing animals.
I think the sort of people who do push it into people's face are the overly enthusiastic bunch, which is good, but not when it's too obnoxious, as people associate veganism with being a prick, when really it's just one individual's disposition. Although, I find it strange that if a person who eats meat is overtly crazy over bacon or chicken wings to those who aren't, it's seen as acceptable.
I think the sort of people who do push it into people's face are the overly enthusiastic bunch, which is good, but not when it's too obnoxious, as people associate veganism with being a prick, when really it's just one individual's disposition. Although, I find it strange that if a person who eats meat is overtly crazy over bacon or chicken wings to those who aren't, it's seen as acceptable.
All of my friends knew I was veggie (I went veggie when I was 10 and I'm now nearly 21 so
) and I went vegan in April. Literally the only reason I told people was either they asked (my housemates wondered why there were suddenly plant milks in the fridge) or due to necessity, e.g. when visiting my pals at other uni's I'd need them to get me plant milk in. It's only when they ask about it that I tell them (and they do a surprising amount actually, they seem genuinely interested in my view on the ethics of meat eating and stuff)And your point about bacon - yes. How is it unacceptable socially for me to be passionate about animal rights/welfare but completely acceptable to go on to vegans/veggies about how amazing bacon is ffs, I know most people don't mean any harm but I find it a bit disrespectful tbh, I tend to just laugh it off but it does annoy me
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by abruiseonthesky
My point with that was that we aren't so special. (And also it's pretty cool from a biologist's POV )
Hmm, I'd still disagree. It depends which species you're talking about and, actually, what you consider important when evaluating the 'value' of an animal (just to point it out, though, a life is a life imo):
- take Kanzi the bonobo. Speaks sign language, can effectively use it to communicate, and understand novel sentences (there's another one that's really cool but I can't find it). Shows some understanding of reasoning
- Koko the gorilla, also taught American Sign Language (although Koko's understanding could be due to operant conditioning)
- if you're setting aside things like morality as prerequisites for a higher valued species, then yes, I'd agree. But to use one factor is just wrong, scientifically. How about things like sentience, displayed throughout the animal kingdom? The ability to feel emotions like love and fear? A species' value isn't just reasoning or technological ability. To suggest so is fallacious
)Hmm, I'd still disagree. It depends which species you're talking about and, actually, what you consider important when evaluating the 'value' of an animal (just to point it out, though, a life is a life imo):
- take Kanzi the bonobo. Speaks sign language, can effectively use it to communicate, and understand novel sentences (there's another one that's really cool but I can't find it
). Shows some understanding of reasoning- Koko the gorilla, also taught American Sign Language (although Koko's understanding could be due to operant conditioning)
- if you're setting aside things like morality as prerequisites for a higher valued species, then yes, I'd agree. But to use one factor is just wrong, scientifically. How about things like sentience, displayed throughout the animal kingdom? The ability to feel emotions like love and fear? A species' value isn't just reasoning or technological ability. To suggest so is fallacious
Yes you tell them.
You putting all these blood drinkers in their place.
Original post by vegaman
Yes you tell them.
My degree is sometimes the most helpful thing
Original post by abruiseonthesky
My degree is sometimes the most helpful thing
What degree do you do?
Original post by vegaman
What degree do you do?
Biology with German
I want to do a masters and PhD to specialise in animal behaviour, cognition or welfareAdmittedly, I'm not vegan, I am vegetarian. But I still do have some insight onto this topic.
I don't really agree with the idea that vegans (or veggies etc) constantly nag people about their dietary choices. However I completely understand why some people might, because it is a very controversial matter since it's tied so close with morality.
Personally, I don't bring up my being a vegetarian out of the blue unless it is brought up by someone else. I accept that other people might want to eat meat. I can't change their minds. I only ever "nag" my sister or my dad, but that's more of a light-hearted issue and they both agree with me anyways, LOL.
I think a better topic for this thread could be about why meat-eaters are so defensive of their dietary choice when it comes to a few small comments from people who decide not to support the killing of animals for meat? Perhaps, on some level, you don't want to admit that you agree with the blood-shed of millions of innocent creatures for your temporary, selfish and thoughtless pleasure because, really, you know it's not exactly justified.
I don't really agree with the idea that vegans (or veggies etc) constantly nag people about their dietary choices. However I completely understand why some people might, because it is a very controversial matter since it's tied so close with morality.
Personally, I don't bring up my being a vegetarian out of the blue unless it is brought up by someone else. I accept that other people might want to eat meat. I can't change their minds. I only ever "nag" my sister or my dad, but that's more of a light-hearted issue and they both agree with me anyways, LOL.
I think a better topic for this thread could be about why meat-eaters are so defensive of their dietary choice when it comes to a few small comments from people who decide not to support the killing of animals for meat? Perhaps, on some level, you don't want to admit that you agree with the blood-shed of millions of innocent creatures for your temporary, selfish and thoughtless pleasure because, really, you know it's not exactly justified.
Original post by shsidk
I think a better topic for this thread could be about why meat-eaters are so defensive of their dietary choice when it comes to a few small comments from people who decide not to support the killing of animals for meat?
Yes.
I can't deal with preachy people whatever they're preaching about, but I do enjoy it when people get annoyed with veggies/vegans for pointing out that they're eating a dead animal
I've been a vegetarian for 13 months, and a vegan since July. I am also an environmental activist, and therefore know quite a few animal rights activists. Many would term them "militant" vegans. If it wasn't for the vegans that I know being so vocal and passionate, and open to discussion, I would have remained of the opinion that I could never go vegan as it is too expensive and impractical. I also never would have linked the animal suffering which I was getting so infuriated about, such as the whale hunting and fox hunting, with the suffering of so many animals in factory farms and industrial farming.
On a side note however, I am so happy to see so many other vegans on TSR. Chocolate cake anyone?
http://www.notquitenigella.com/2014/09/24/chocolate-peanut-butter-mug-cake-vegan/
On a side note however, I am so happy to see so many other vegans on TSR. Chocolate cake anyone?
http://www.notquitenigella.com/2014/09/24/chocolate-peanut-butter-mug-cake-vegan/
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