Extra university appliction for Oxbridge Watch

vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#1
We have a problem in this country that Oxbridge has too many private school pupils and not enough state school pupils. Looking at Oxford and Cambridge's admissions statistics they say the reason is because not enough state school pupils apply, when they do they have almost exactly the same acceptance rate than private school pupils.One of the main reasons state school pupils don't apply is because a lot don't think they will be good enough even though they have the grades.So an idea to solve this problem: normally students can apply for five different universities. Change the rule to if you apply to Oxford or Cambridge then you are allowed six. Therefore it will count as an extra application and not use up one of your five. This I believe would make a huge number of extra state school students apply as they would have nothing to lose now by applying as it is not using up one of their other choices.Are there any downsides to this I'm missing? Has this idea ever been mentioned before as I've not heard it?
0
reply
Cadherin
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#2
Report 3 years ago
#2
I don't think we do have a problem - people succeed on merit.
5
reply
Newcastle456
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#3
Report 3 years ago
#3
(Original post by vslater)
We have a problem in this country that Oxbridge has too many private school pupils and not enough state school pupils. Looking at Oxford and Cambridge's admissions statistics they say the reason is because not enough state school pupils apply, when they do they have almost exactly the same acceptance rate than private school pupils.One of the main reasons state school pupils don't apply is because a lot don't think they will be good enough even though they have the grades.So an idea to solve this problem: normally students can apply for five different universities. Change the rule to if you apply to Oxford or Cambridge then you are allowed six. Therefore it will count as an extra application and not use up one of your five. This I believe would make a huge number of extra state school students apply as they would have nothing to lose now by applying as it is not using up one of their other choices.Are there any downsides to this I'm missing? Has this idea ever been mentioned before as I've not heard it?
Yes, a similar increase will be seen from private school applicants. More bureaucracy, more joke applications, do we even have a problem? A tautological statement to begin with. Also this 5/5 thing is rubbish, most universities across the country accept anyone who meets the entry requirements. If you are that concerned, you could play it safe or go through clearing. And why must we keep leveraging Oxbridge?

For testament, despite straight A*/A grades at GCSE and AS-level, I got one offer the first time I applied back in 2010 and I got on with it.

Posted from TSR Mobile
2
reply
vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#4
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#4
I don't think we should turn this into a debate about whether there is a problem or not, simply would my idea get more state school students to apply. Millions is already being spent on trying to get more state school students to apply by the government and Oxbridge so clearly most people believe there is a problem.Joke applications is exactly what we would want, it's not a bad thing. Anyone who does not have top grades will still be quickly filtered out and anyone else will have there application taken seriously quite rightly. I think this will make those people who would normally say I'm not going to apply because I'm not good enough say I might as well apply for a joke. And many of these could well be given offers.
0
reply
Incongruous
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#5
Report 3 years ago
#5
Yes many people from private/public schools are going to Oxbridge. Something is definitely wrong with them because their students get accepted in Oxbridge in high numbers...

Seriously?

Don't punish private/public schools for being too good. Blame the state school for not equiping pupils well enough.
2
reply
vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#6
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#6
(Original post by Incongruous)
Yes many people from private/public schools are going to Oxbridge. Something is definitely wrong with them because their students get accepted in Oxbridge in high numbers...Seriously?Don't punish private/public schools for being too good. Blame the state school for not equiping pupils well enough.
How is this punishing private schools? Most people's suggestions for solving the problem is bring in quotas for state school students. I admit this could be punishing private school students as then worse students then them could get a place just to meet a quota. All my suggestion is doing would be encouraging more people to apply and then the best of them get offers independent of what school they are from. I don't see how this could be seen as punishing private schools.
0
reply
Plagioclase
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#7
Report 3 years ago
#7
(Original post by vslater)
We have a problem in this country that Oxbridge has too many private school pupils and not enough state school pupils. Looking at Oxford and Cambridge's admissions statistics they say the reason is because not enough state school pupils apply, when they do they have almost exactly the same acceptance rate than private school pupils.One of the main reasons state school pupils don't apply is because a lot don't think they will be good enough even though they have the grades.So an idea to solve this problem: normally students can apply for five different universities. Change the rule to if you apply to Oxford or Cambridge then you are allowed six. Therefore it will count as an extra application and not use up one of your five. This I believe would make a huge number of extra state school students apply as they would have nothing to lose now by applying as it is not using up one of their other choices.Are there any downsides to this I'm missing? Has this idea ever been mentioned before as I've not heard it?
There's a huge variety of state schools - from high performing selectives and comprehensives that outperform many private schools to extremely underachieving schools so extending this to the entire state sector isn't very fair. I'm not even convinced that the lack of state school students applying is the main problem because you've also got to remember that private school pupils are disproportionately likely to get the kind of grades required for a competitive application in the first place. The real problem is with the public education system, the fact that there's a huge amount of inequality in terms of education quality, and that's not something that university admissions can really do a huge amount about.
0
reply
Muttley79
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#8
Report 3 years ago
#8
(Original post by vslater)
We have a problem in this country that Oxbridge has too many private school pupils and not enough state school pupils. Looking at Oxford and Cambridge's admissions statistics they say the reason is because not enough state school pupils apply, when they do they have almost exactly the same acceptance rate than private school pupils.One of the main reasons state school pupils don't apply is because a lot don't think they will be good enough even though they have the grades.So an idea to solve this problem: normally students can apply for five different universities. Change the rule to if you apply to Oxford or Cambridge then you are allowed six. Therefore it will count as an extra application and not use up one of your five. This I believe would make a huge number of extra state school students apply as they would have nothing to lose now by applying as it is not using up one of their other choices.Are there any downsides to this I'm missing? Has this idea ever been mentioned before as I've not heard it?
It has been six choices in the past when UCAS was UCCA.
0
reply
vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#9
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#9
(Original post by Muttley79)
It has been six choices in the past when UCAS was UCCA.
The point is only make it six for those applying to Oxbridge, for everyone else it is still five, so basically you get a free application.
0
reply
Incongruous
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#10
Report 3 years ago
#10
(Original post by vslater)
How is this punishing private schools? Most people's suggestions for solving the problem is bring in quotas for state school students. I admit this could be punishing private school students as then worse students then them could get a place just to meet a quota. All my suggestion is doing would be encouraging more people to apply and then the best of them get offers independent of what school they are from. I don't see how this could be seen as punishing private schools.
Private schools have better grades than state schools on average . 10% of the upper sixth form of my (independent private) school gets accepted into Oxbridge every year. Private schools simply equip and prepare students better in every aspect.

Universities shouldn't have special admissions for different backgrounds of pupils. Fighting bias with bias won't solve the issue. The state should invest far more in schools and put everyone on the same level playing field.
1
reply
vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#11
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#11
(Original post by Incongruous)
Private schools have better grades than state schools on average . 10% of the upper sixth form of my (independent private) school gets accepted into Oxbridge every year. Private schools simply equip and prepare students better in every aspect.Universities shouldn't have special admissions for different backgrounds of pupils. Fighting bias with bias won't solve the issue. The state should invest far more in schools and put everyone on the same level playing field.
How does my idea have special admissions for different backgrounds? Private schools do prepare students better and also are better at encouraging them to apply. There are very good state school students though who don't apply who would be good enough and this is an idea to make them apply. This is should actually make the quality of Oxbridge better not worse.
0
reply
Incongruous
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#12
Report 3 years ago
#12
(Original post by vslater)
How does my idea have special admissions for different backgrounds? Private schools do prepare students better and also are better at encouraging them to apply. There are very good state school students though who don't apply who would be good enough and this is an idea to make them apply. This is should actually make the quality of Oxbridge better not worse.
Where is the proof that state school pupils don't apply because they wouldn't be good enough?
0
reply
vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#13
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#13
(Original post by Incongruous)
Where is the proof that state school pupils don't apply because they wouldn't be good enough?
There are thousands of state school students who do have grades good enough for Oxbridge who don't apply. I've seen it reported many times they are not applying because even their teachers do not believe they would get in. Even without the encouragement of teachers I think having an extra free application would be extra encouragement to get them to apply as they would have nothing to lose.
0
reply
Incongruous
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#14
Report 3 years ago
#14
(Original post by vslater)
There are thousands of state school students who do have grades good enough for Oxbridge who don't apply. I've seen it reported many times they are not applying because even their teachers do not believe they would get in. Even without the encouragement of teachers I think having an extra free application would be extra encouragement to get them to apply as they would have nothing to lose.
Thousands? Where did you get thay figure?
0
reply
vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#15
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#15
(Original post by Incongruous)
Thousands? Where did you get thay figure?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...st-pupils.html

There's one that says it and you can find many more if you try.

What is the point in arguing that there don't exist state school students who are not applying who could, surely this isn't the first time you've heard this. Why else is millions of pounds being spent on trying to get them apply?
0
reply
Incongruous
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#16
Report 3 years ago
#16
(Original post by vslater)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...st-pupils.html

There's one that says it and you can find many more if you try.

What is the point in arguing that there don't exist state school students who are not applying who could, surely this isn't the first time you've heard this. Why else is millions of pounds being spent on trying to get them apply?
No point in the article does it prove that people with good grades don't apply to Oxbridge because they thought they weren't good enough.
The article simply points out the discrepancy of the grades achieved/quality of teaching between private and state schools.
0
reply
vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#17
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#17
(Original post by Incongruous)
No point in the article does it prove that people with good grades don't apply to Oxbridge because they thought they weren't good enough.The article simply points out the discrepancy of the grades achieved/quality of teaching between private and state schools.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-Oxbridge.html

Read this if you're still not happy.

I think you're purposely avoiding the actual real debate I wanted to have here by focussing on little things. Yes or no would this idea I have of having an extra application to apply to Oxbridge encourage more people to apply. I can't see how it wouldn't and how it therefore wouldn't be a good thing.
0
reply
Wahrheit
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#18
Report 3 years ago
#18
These are just two universities, let's not forget. Two very good universities, yes, but let's not put them on any higher a pedestal than they are already
2
reply
vslater
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#19
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#19
(Original post by Wahrheit)
These are just two universities, let's not forget. Two very good universities, yes, but let's not put them on any higher a pedestal than they are already
They already are on a huge pedestal. The application is already different for them anyway since they have different deadlines. This extra idea is not going to make the pedestal drastically bigger and the good positive effects it could have outweighs that in my opinion anyway.
0
reply
username2228735
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#20
Report 3 years ago
#20
(Original post by vslater)
How is this punishing private schools? Most people's suggestions for solving the problem is bring in quotas for state school students. I admit this could be punishing private school students as then worse students then them could get a place just to meet a quota. All my suggestion is doing would be encouraging more people to apply and then the best of them get offers independent of what school they are from. I don't see how this could be seen as punishing private schools.
It's a worrying trend that whenever certain individuals see a discrepancy in figures, they recommend quotas. This should not and is not necessarily the best solution to a problem. I grant that your proposition is aiming to level the playing field. But quotas also have the negative effect of forcing institutions to fill up places, even when a student may not be 'up to standard'. Fighting discrimination with discrimination is not always right.

Instead, we need to increase the standard of secondary education. Teacher salaries should be increased and be more in line with performance. This will attract more talented graduates to enter the profession. In-depth training needs to be provided on what is being taught and by what method.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Do you give blood?

Yes (38)
10.03%
I used to but I don't now (12)
3.17%
No, but I want to start (136)
35.88%
No, I am unable to (86)
22.69%
No, I chose not to (107)
28.23%

Watched Threads

View All