Leftist thoughts on events in Germany
Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm "left-wing" and I am not going to change my point of view on that, all I want to do is inform you on how I feel about the attacks, namely in Cologne, and how this forum is in the most part, wrong.
To start with, I find it completely disgusting that this isn't being discussed as much as it should be, especially by the media (namely the BBC) and people like me who'd describe themselves as "left-wing". There have been events happening in Germany involving around 1,000 Arab and North-African men who raped, sexually assaulted and/or robbed women. That is a fact and we have to deal with it.
There are two sides, apparently, to take with this debate. One is to defend the women of Cologne who were stolen from and/or assaulted and try to blame all of the immigrants coming from areas like the Middle East and North Africa rather than just the rapists themselves. Another is to blame the women for being around at that time or even lying, which seems to go against any idealogy liberals seem to have with the fact that rape is always the rapists fault. I believe that the blame should be placed entirely on the ~1,000 men who actually committed the crimes; what they did is absolutely disgusting and should not be condoned in any way by anybody. Rape is wrong. Rape is unacceptable, and there is no circumstance in their lives that lead to these men having to rape, or steal.
But, I do not agree that this is the fault of all immigrants. This is the fault of some, horrible immigrants, but not the fault of all of them. Obviously, if mass immigration was not allowed in Germany, these attacks would not have happened. But there is no reason to blame those trying to find a better life. If I were to be bought up in a country savaged by war (like Syria), daily beheadings and bombings from the West, I would completely get out of there. Immigration is completely necessary for these poor people, their homes have been destroyed, their lives have been turned around, and Europe needs to stand by them. What we present in Europe is a better life for anybody, my life is completely fine, most people I know suffer from just "first-world problems". But the people in Syria do not have that and so have to cross the route to find better life. I've seen people blaming Angela Merkel for the rapes for letting all the immigrants in. She is not the reason, and all the people blaming her are trying to do is shift the blame away. The blame lies on the rapists, always.
As a last point, Islamic State exists. People forget that and instantly start blaming immigrants for everything. IS uses a distorted view of Islam and they believe that anybody who does not believe that view deserves to be killed. People are dying in Syria, day after day, there is nothing they can do about it rather than leave. I wouldn't want to leave my home, unless I was forced to. It's IS that has lead to this all happening and they need to be stopped.
To start with, I find it completely disgusting that this isn't being discussed as much as it should be, especially by the media (namely the BBC) and people like me who'd describe themselves as "left-wing". There have been events happening in Germany involving around 1,000 Arab and North-African men who raped, sexually assaulted and/or robbed women. That is a fact and we have to deal with it.
There are two sides, apparently, to take with this debate. One is to defend the women of Cologne who were stolen from and/or assaulted and try to blame all of the immigrants coming from areas like the Middle East and North Africa rather than just the rapists themselves. Another is to blame the women for being around at that time or even lying, which seems to go against any idealogy liberals seem to have with the fact that rape is always the rapists fault. I believe that the blame should be placed entirely on the ~1,000 men who actually committed the crimes; what they did is absolutely disgusting and should not be condoned in any way by anybody. Rape is wrong. Rape is unacceptable, and there is no circumstance in their lives that lead to these men having to rape, or steal.
But, I do not agree that this is the fault of all immigrants. This is the fault of some, horrible immigrants, but not the fault of all of them. Obviously, if mass immigration was not allowed in Germany, these attacks would not have happened. But there is no reason to blame those trying to find a better life. If I were to be bought up in a country savaged by war (like Syria), daily beheadings and bombings from the West, I would completely get out of there. Immigration is completely necessary for these poor people, their homes have been destroyed, their lives have been turned around, and Europe needs to stand by them. What we present in Europe is a better life for anybody, my life is completely fine, most people I know suffer from just "first-world problems". But the people in Syria do not have that and so have to cross the route to find better life. I've seen people blaming Angela Merkel for the rapes for letting all the immigrants in. She is not the reason, and all the people blaming her are trying to do is shift the blame away. The blame lies on the rapists, always.
As a last point, Islamic State exists. People forget that and instantly start blaming immigrants for everything. IS uses a distorted view of Islam and they believe that anybody who does not believe that view deserves to be killed. People are dying in Syria, day after day, there is nothing they can do about it rather than leave. I wouldn't want to leave my home, unless I was forced to. It's IS that has lead to this all happening and they need to be stopped.
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Original post by Craig1998
[...] try to blame all of the immigrants coming from areas like the Middle East and North Africa rather than just the rapists themselves.
[...] try to blame all of the immigrants coming from areas like the Middle East and North Africa rather than just the rapists themselves.
I have yet to come across a genuine post blaming all immigrants. They certainly haven't, but mass immigration has.
I don't think we can cope with this volume of immigrants and these unprecedented attacks in Köln, Helsinki and Zurich are proof.
Original post by Craig1998
But, I do not agree that this is the fault of all immigrants.
Again, this is not the fault of all the immigrants, it's the fault of mass immigration.
Original post by Craig1998
Obviously, if mass immigrationwas not allowed in Germany, these attacks would not have happened.
Obviously, if mass immigrationwas not allowed in Germany, these attacks would not have happened.
Good inference considering you're left-wing.
Original post by Craig1998
I've seen people blaming Angela Merkel for the rapes for letting all the immigrants in. She is not the reason, and all the people blaming her are trying to do is shift the blame away.
I've seen people blaming Angela Merkel for the rapes for letting all the immigrants in. She is not the reason, and all the people blaming her are trying to do is shift the blame away.
The blame away from who?
The German Chancellor is partially to blame. It's her government that allowed all these immigrants to come in in the first place. Luckily enough Merkel is now calling for tougher laws on deviant immigrants (Source)
Original post by Craig1998
As a last point, Islamic State exists. People forget that and instantly start blaming immigrants for everything. IS uses a distorted view of Islam and they believe that anybody who does not believe that view deserves to be killed. People are dying in Syria, day after day, there is nothing they can do about it rather than leave. I wouldn't want to leave my home, unless I was forced to. It's IS that has lead to this all happening and they need to be stopped.
As a last point, Islamic State exists. People forget that and instantly start blaming immigrants for everything. IS uses a distorted view of Islam and they believe that anybody who does not believe that view deserves to be killed. People are dying in Syria, day after day, there is nothing they can do about it rather than leave. I wouldn't want to leave my home, unless I was forced to. It's IS that has lead to this all happening and they need to be stopped.
ISIS has nothing to do with Germany's immigration policies. Yes it might be the root cause of the mass exodus out of Syria, but it's Germany that has let in far too many immigrants that they can handle.
Original post by Craig1998
X
Well said, good luck with dealing with all the people who will no doubt capitalise on these events to rant about how mass immigration is ruining our lives or who lack the empathy to realise that these refugees are in much more urgent need of help than we are.
Original post by CIitYeastWood
I don't think we can cope with this volume of immigrants and these unprecedented attacks in Köln, Helsinki and Zurich are proof.
Any argument that starts with 'I don't think' is an argument that does not deserve a shred of thought.
Original post by CIitYeastWood
The blame away from who?
The rapists, the ones I was on about in that section if you even decided to read it.
Original post by CIitYeastWood
The German Chancellor is partially to blame. It's her government that allowed all these immigrants to come in in the first place. Luckily enough Merkel is now calling for tougher laws on deviant immigrants (Source)
Angela Merkel is in no way partially to blame. She opened up her country to allow immigrants because she knew they needed help. The fact that a small minority went into crime like this was in no way her fault.
Original post by CIitYeastWood
ISIS has nothing to do with Germany's immigration policies. Yes it might be the root cause of the mass exodus out of Syria, but it's Germany that has let in far too many immigrants that they can handle.
ISIS is the reason that so many people left Syria in search of a better life. The last paragraph was just to remind people why this is all happening.
As a German living in Britain this worries and disgusts me. To blame Merkel is the natural thing anyone would do in that situation (when something happens in this country Cameron is the first to be blamed). People need to take a step back and see things in proportion. I have family members who have said unacceptable things about the refugees. It's a really difficult situation, and concerning that there might be a move to the right because of this.
Original post by cathrg26
Agree with the most part. But the gov has to take partial blame, of course for rapists and criminals there should be no defence. They let in 1million+ in just a year with seemingly relaxed controls, that just screams disaster.
The govt is completely to blame imo. They need to think about the citizens in the country rather than to look like a "generous PM"
My fault is not with immigration, only with the culture that these people come from.
When you let in such a large amount of people in one go, there leaves no chance for integration and so they maintain the practices that are commonplace in their countries back home. I'm not even blaming them for being this way, it's just what is normal for these countries. Why can't you make the connection that people from these countries, which is extremely conservative compared to the UK and Germany, will bring their extremely conservative views to their news homes.
Yes, a huge majority won't commit these crimes, but a significant proportion will do, higher than the normal German rate.
It is obvious that the police in Germany and other countries are not equipped to handle the extra amount of crime that comes with people who are from these countries, where sexual abuse is basically acceptable.
If you think that their culture is not like this, then why aren't you furious that they commit even a small amount of crime? They should be model citizens, grateful that a countries has taken them in at their own expense, when much richer Gulf states have been an embarrassment and should be taking most of them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35251167
When you let in such a large amount of people in one go, there leaves no chance for integration and so they maintain the practices that are commonplace in their countries back home. I'm not even blaming them for being this way, it's just what is normal for these countries. Why can't you make the connection that people from these countries, which is extremely conservative compared to the UK and Germany, will bring their extremely conservative views to their news homes.
Yes, a huge majority won't commit these crimes, but a significant proportion will do, higher than the normal German rate.
It is obvious that the police in Germany and other countries are not equipped to handle the extra amount of crime that comes with people who are from these countries, where sexual abuse is basically acceptable.
If you think that their culture is not like this, then why aren't you furious that they commit even a small amount of crime? They should be model citizens, grateful that a countries has taken them in at their own expense, when much richer Gulf states have been an embarrassment and should be taking most of them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35251167
(edited 8 years ago)
The issue here is that for too long sexual violence has been trivialised and Western governments have been unwilling to face up to facts: women experience low-level sexual harassment on a regular basis, and they experience more serious levels of sexual harassment on a less regular basis but it still happens.
It is far too difficult to get a prosecution through the courts and there needs to be some more fast track ways of being able to take action against perpetrators of sexual violence to act as a firm deterrent. The politics of distraction and victim-blaming from meninists and others should not be allowed to push blame away from offenders.
It is far too difficult to get a prosecution through the courts and there needs to be some more fast track ways of being able to take action against perpetrators of sexual violence to act as a firm deterrent. The politics of distraction and victim-blaming from meninists and others should not be allowed to push blame away from offenders.
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
The govt is completely to blame imo. They need to think about the citizens in the country rather than to look like a "generous PM"
PM? She acts like the Emperor-ess of Europe.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
The issue here is that for too long sexual violence has been trivialised and Western governments have been unwilling to face up to facts: women experience low-level sexual harassment on a regular basis, and they experience more serious levels of sexual harassment on a less regular basis but it still happens.
It is far too difficult to get a prosecution through the courts and there needs to be some more fast track ways of being able to take action against perpetrators of sexual violence to act as a firm deterrent. The politics of distraction and victim-blaming from meninists and others should not be allowed to push blame away from offenders.
It is far too difficult to get a prosecution through the courts and there needs to be some more fast track ways of being able to take action against perpetrators of sexual violence to act as a firm deterrent. The politics of distraction and victim-blaming from meninists and others should not be allowed to push blame away from offenders.
No, the issue here is 1 million "asylum seekers" were admitted and a group of 500 of them went on a rampage, sexually assaulting girls.
Typical leftie, hide from the truth.
Original post by mmm778899
PM? She acts like the Emperor-ess of Europe.
Agree completely. Merkel has ruined Europe and will go down in History as "Germany's most stupid ruler"
Original post by mmm778899
No, the issue here is 1 million "asylum seekers" were admitted and a group of 500 of them went on a rampage, sexually assaulting girls.
Typical leftie, hide from the truth.
Typical leftie, hide from the truth.
Oh yes, because there are no difficulties in trying to get someone convicted
Of course the issue is that these men committed crime; another, related issue, though, is that sexual crimes are difficult to get through the criminal justice system and people don't take more low-level harassment seriously
Agreed. I hate that people are hijacking events like this to push an anti-migrant agenda (not anti-guilty migrant, which I would 100% support) under the guise of 'caring for the victims' - not that they're necessarily mutually exclusive.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Oh yes, because there are no difficulties in trying to get someone convicted
What has that got to do with my post? And any difficulties will only be from Lefties who will cry if their friends are deported.
Original post by mmm778899
What has that got to do with my post? And any difficulties will only be from Lefties who will cry if their friends are deported.
You claimed that what was said was irrelevant, I pointed out why it wasn't..? Christy.
Original post by Plagioclase
Well said, good luck with dealing with all the people who will no doubt capitalise on these events to rant about how mass immigration is ruining our lives or who lack the empathy to realise that these refugees are in much more urgent need of help than we are.
I don't understand why we have to bring refugees in Europe to help them. There are camps around Syria, why don't they go there? Why women and children have stayed there?
Original post by Craig1998
bombings from the West, I would completely get out of there.
Yes because the west are bombing civilians in Syria...not.
Second, if my house was bombed by a country my first thought too would be to immigrate to that country.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Josb
I don't understand why we have to bring refugees in Europe to help them. There are camps around Syria, why don't they go there? Why women and children have stayed there?
Because firstly, it's not fair to force the few neighbouring countries around Syria to have the onus of responsibility here and secondly, those camps are hardly capable of giving people a decent, respectable standard of living...
Original post by alexh42
Yes, a huge majority won't commit these crimes, but a significant proportion will do, higher than the normal German rate.
Yes, a huge majority won't commit these crimes, but a significant proportion will do, higher than the normal German rate.
I don't think so. How many refugees have been settled in Cologne? A thousand of them there is already more than a tiny minority. It's the same for the 500 men in Bielefeld.
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