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Bismarck
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#381
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#381
(Original post by Fleffzilla)
You see, I can't actually see where in that post I blamed someone for not spotting a lie [well damn, that's the whole of TSR at fualt!].

What I was trying to say in reply to Schmokie was:
1. Something happened.
2. It caused pig to get angry, and leave
3. Something else happened.
4. That made pig wanted to withdraw his plug-ins.

Schmokie seemed to be saying that points 1 and 3 hadn't happened, or we hadn't been told about them, or whatever, and so it can't all be J's fault since it's pig that did points 2 and 4.
Well on the contrary it's Acumen that did points 1 and 3, the cause, and pig that did points 2 and 4, the effect.
And it depends on whether you're classing, "TSR going arse over tit for a while" as an effect of what pig caused (intentionally or unintentionally), as to whether or not you blame pig, or whether you go back to the very start -to that first something which made it ALL happen - and blame that. And to be quite honest I can't see what's wrong with that in this case. Had *that* something not happened, none of points 2, 3, or 4 would probably have occurred. Or maybe if pig had been in a better mood that day he wouldn't have felt the need to leave... Who knows.
To put it a slightly simpler way [and because we all love analogies]...
If an earthquake causes a tsunami which then destroys some stuff, do we blame the tsunami or the earthquake? We can all shake our fists at the tsunami and blame it for having a reaction, or we can blame the earthquake behind the scenes that seems to be at the root of all problems. Or I suppose we can blame both.
What do you think, good enough analogy? I blame the earthquake because that's what I see as logical. You blame the tsunami because that's what was visibly causing the destruction. That's fine. But there's no point in denying the earthquake ever happened when you're told that it did. Whether it be a small tremour or an 8 on the richter scale makes no difference. It happened. Had it not? No tsunami.
And had not some neighborhood turned bad, women in that neighborhood wouldn't get raped. So let's blame poor people who live in that neighborhood instead of the rapists.

(Original post by generalebriety)
And yet he might have had a perfectly good reason. Pig wouldn't just storm off without a reason - let's face it, up until now, it really didn't matter at all that pig's name wasn't Billy Bell - in fact, to relate this to another thread, downtime didn't matter because we'd get sub extensions without even asking, and so on. Pig has had sufficient reason to get pissed off with these people - if he hadn't had sufficient reason then his name would never have mattered. What he did might be immoral but J/CN have probably been just as bad, and this might be pig's way of getting back at them. I'm not saying it's justified, just that it could've been avoided - with no legal grip on pig whatsoever, J/CN should've known he could very easily do something like this.
That's just silly. Whenever you sign a legal contract with somebody, why should you expect that the other party won't sign their real name?
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generalebriety
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#382
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#382
(Original post by Bismarck)
That's just silly. Whenever you sign a legal contract with somebody, why should you expect that the other party won't sign their real name?
If you're not paying them, being generally forceful about the website they've maintained for years, sending insulting PMs around about them? Why do you think. :rolleyes: Even so - and I do agree with you - anyone with a legal mind should've known that he could do this and, just in case he suddenly went insane or turned out to be a schizophrenic or was bribed/blackmailed by someone or JUST POSSIBLY got pissed off with all of the owners, would've made sure there were witnesses around.

You don't **** around with businesses this big, you really don't.
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vector
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#383
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#383
Does anyone actually know how big Acumen Pi is? Someone valued TSR at $20-30 million in one of the about threads recently, but I just don't believe it's worth anything near that.
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Clubber Lang
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#384
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#384
Why can't Pigs real name be Billy Bell, next you'll be telling me my name isn't really Clubber Lang, fools! :rolleyes:
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Clubber Lang
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#385
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#385
(Original post by vector)
Does anyone actually know how big Acumen Pi is? Someone valued TSR at $20-30 million in one of the about threads recently, but I just don't believe it's worth anything near that.
lol, no f'n way.

It totally relies on advertising and I very much doubt they even make thousands a week from advertising... that is unless there are a load of coursework cheaters on here
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vector
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#386
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#386
Particularly seeing as there are no ads atm :p:
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Cortez
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#387
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#387
(Original post by vector)
Does anyone actually know how big Acumen Pi is? Someone valued TSR at $20-30 million in one of the about threads recently, but I just don't believe it's worth anything near that.
I doubt it too
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Bismarck
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#388
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#388
(Original post by generalebriety)
If you're not paying them, being generally forceful about the website they've maintained for years, sending insulting PMs around about them? Why do you think. :rolleyes: Even so - and I do agree with you - anyone with a legal mind should've known that he could do this and, just in case he suddenly went insane or turned out to be a schizophrenic or was bribed/blackmailed by someone or JUST POSSIBLY got pissed off with all of the owners, would've made sure there were witnesses around.

You don't **** around with businesses this big, you really don't.
When the contract was signed, there were no major disputes between them as far as I know. And seeing that pig has virtually single-handedly made this site what it is, I don't think the current owners had reason to suspect foul play from him.
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blissy
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#389
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#389
(Original post by Bismarck)
When the contract was signed, there were no major disputes between them as far as I know. And seeing that pig has virtually single-handedly made this site what it is, I don't think the current owners had reason to suspect foul play from him.
As far as I know, it was Pig who initiated the contract. His reason for it was to get Acumen to recognise that the plug-ins etc. were his work and IP. Until then, it has been suggested, that they were under the impression thought they could just pass everything over to their overseas 'developers' to use.
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Daveo
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#390
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#390
This thread is so full of speculation and bull**** its incredible! But this post just takes the piss!

(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
Yes Fleff, I'm not entirely stupid. I know something caused him to leave, and I'm not saying that J and CN were necessarily sweetness and light to him. However, I have learnt (largely from dealing with stroppy army people) that being poorly treated and then going "ugh, I can't cope" and waltzing off in a strop doesn't solve anything and doesn't endear anyone to you. Unless J and CN are keeping us in the dark, I don't believe pig made his displeasure at the way things were being run known until very recently, and he certainly didn't give enough notice of leaving. Everything kinda went crazy recently.
I don't think pig ever mentioned anywhere that "he couldn't cope" J didn't mention that either so where you've invented that I don't know! As a matter of fact, from my point of view pig didn't go off in a strop, He did so with little fuss. Even if CN and J were completely aware of any displeasure on Pig's part, why they should tell the users about that I don't know, and what exactly makes you qualified to comment on that? Your 'Army Experience'? Why should he have to give notice of leaving? He was a volunteer, even after he left he was still around to help acaila and stuff!!!

(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
And I don't call "get my plug-ins off your site" as acceptable notice. Esp as he knew he had signed summut that allowed them to be used. .
Please point out to me where you got the quote "get my plug-ins off your site came from"? Oh sorry, you made that up didn't you! He posted a single thread in AAM asking them for them to be removed, a number of hours later there had not been a response from acumen so PQ removed them due to legal issues.

(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
Of course, then we come back to him lying about his identity. He lied. CN didn't lie. J didn't lie. Sure, you may think it is unreasonable for him to be expected to have known that a contract was on the cards when he first adopted "Billy Bell" as a name. Well, that summut that can be blamed on CN and J. He was the one that lied. And he was the one who didn't have the forethought to anticipate being made admin, and having to sign stuff. Okay, so not many of us join a site and think "hmm, maybe I should use my real name because when I become admin . . . " but that is no excuse or not coming clean. He could have just said "my real name is x" and then signed the contract, or declined to sign it. No-one made him lie..
Of course no-one made him lie, but I don't see that he did anything wrong by lying in the first place. Perhaps it did go a little far when the contract was introduced but at the time I don't think pig had any reason to suspect anything of this nature would happen. I've said elsewhere that once you take on an alter ego it becomes very very difficult to turn around and say what your real name is, in-fact, doing so almost makes having an alter ego in the first place a complete waste of time. I think keeping the alter ego up, even on the contract in order to protect yourself and your family is excuse enough.

(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
And I don't think a couple of less than polite PMs and a messed up modification are really decent justifications for all of this. The search got fixed, and PMs are private. Can you say that you have always been sweet and wonderful about everyone in everything you say? Again, it being private isn't an excuse for being obnoxious and rude, but it is something that an appology and a quiet resignation could have fixed (should leaving be the necessary course of action). It didn't need to be quite as glamourous and tumultuous as it was.
You don't know anything about why pig, nobody really does. Yes people have theorised and various exerts from CN and J have given an outline but for all you know CN and J could have anally raped him last time they met (btw, i'm not suggesting this actually happened, I'm merely suggesting that there can always be more to a story than everyone else knows)

Everything you've said above is based on the theories of people who know **** all, it seems to me that you've even ignored most of what J has had to say on the subject.

It really ****s me off that users like you come along spouting bull**** about everything, in fact, its a joke, and one of the many reasons I resigned as a mod.

I'd like to suggest a new tag-line for TSR when the redesign eventually takes shape:

"A load of *****, talking a load of ****"
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Trigger
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#391
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#391
:congrats:
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Mustard-man
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#392
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#392
(Original post by Schmokie Dragon)
Of course, then we come back to him lying about his identity. He lied. CN didn't lie. J didn't lie.
And you would know? :rolleyes: Trust no one :ninja:
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blissy
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#393
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#393
(Original post by Profesh)
You can copyright colours, now?

Pig's legacy is one of substantive implementation, not innovation. Really, all that J and CN require is a dedicated forum-webmaster; to re-instate amenities that Pig did in essence, albeit with subsequent ingenuity and panache, appropriate/*******ise from elsewhere to begin with.
Yes, that would be the job J has had for a few months.
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Sidhe
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#394
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#394
Woooah Daveo! I get the feeling this would be a bad time to talk about Pigs alleged connection with the Free Masons, and his fathers links with the Gestapo? Also the secret links with a shadowy overlords, who appear to wield the real power, and are probably Jewish Illuminati or something. Or Islamic oil magnates, one of the two.

I think it's all a carefully worked plan by the owners to introduce changes, you see since many of the changes are potentially contentious, what better way than some I think wholly invented, pseudo freelance Mod to disappear(in fact J or some other employee of the company) Drawing attention away from the sudden influx of new designs features and plug ins. Of course mysteriously all these features will reappear and perhaps a few more. It's all just too convenient if you ask me.

In all seriousness, this situation is kind of speculation central, and you have to accept that anyway as most people don't know exactly what's going on, although J has revealed what's happened from their point of view, pig has for whatever reason decided to keep shtum, presumably so as not to create some sort of storm, but who the hell knows?
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nota bene
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#395
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#395
(Original post by blissy)
Yes, that would be the job J has had for a few months.
We see how that have helped...

/sarcasm
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Bismarck
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#396
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#396
(Original post by blissy)
As far as I know, it was Pig who initiated the contract. His reason for it was to get Acumen to recognise that the plug-ins etc. were his work and IP. Until then, it has been suggested, that they were under the impression thought they could just pass everything over to their overseas 'developers' to use.
This is certainly understandable. Acumen is a company and it certainly wouldn't mind making money off pig if they could legally get away with it. And pig obviously wants his massive contributions to this site to be acknowledged. That doesn't really validate fraud though...
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blissy
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#397
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#397
Well, no, I can't really address the whole other-name thing (and I don't think I'll be going there). But, and I quote:

"the contract was MY IDEA because I wanted them to recognise it was my work as a response to CN assuming that it all (including the IP) belonged to him, ... And you can post that on TSR. "
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generalebriety
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#398
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#398
(Original post by Bismarck)
When the contract was signed, there were no major disputes between them as far as I know. And seeing that pig has virtually single-handedly made this site what it is, I don't think the current owners had reason to suspect foul play from him.
As far as you know.

As I said, if J/CN were playing nicely, then it would never have mattered that pig signed the contract under a false name. Call it a backup plan if you will... no one would have ever needed to suspect that that wasn't his real name if J/CN hadn't done whatever they did to make him leave. No silly contract ****-ups, no plugins being removed, no mods leaving en masse, and a dedicated forum administrator. But pig was only ever a volunteer and maybe he wanted to remain that way - with just enough legal power to pull himself out of it completely, not leaving a trace of himself behind and letting CN et al. rebuild TSR from scratch if, at a pinch, it ever came to it.

In that sense, pig was probably very clever, and CN was stupid not to notice that a volunteer was actually risking nothing in covering his back like that.
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Bismarck
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#399
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#399
(Original post by generalebriety)
As far as you know.

As I said, if J/CN were playing nicely, then it would never have mattered that pig signed the contract under a false name. Call it a backup plan if you will... no one would have ever needed to suspect that that wasn't his real name if J/CN hadn't done whatever they did to make him leave. No silly contract ****-ups, no plugins being removed, no mods leaving en masse, and a dedicated forum administrator. But pig was only ever a volunteer and maybe he wanted to remain that way - with just enough legal power to pull himself out of it completely, not leaving a trace of himself behind and letting CN et al. rebuild TSR from scratch if, at a pinch, it ever came to it.

In that sense, pig was probably very clever, and CN was stupid not to notice that a volunteer was actually risking nothing in covering his back like that.
That's all irrelevant though. The contract was signed under a false name. This is especially true if it was pig's idea, since using a false name isn't the best way to guarantee one's IP rights...

(Original post by blissy)
Well, no, I can't really address the whole other-name thing (and I don't think I'll be going there). But, and I quote:

"the contract was MY IDEA because I wanted them to recognise it was my work as a response to CN assuming that it all (including the IP) belonged to him, ... And you can post that on TSR. "
But surely he knows that a contract with false information is null and void?
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Daveo
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#400
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#400
(Original post by Sidhe)
In all seriousness, this situation is kind of speculation central, and you have to accept that anyway as most people don't know exactly what's going on, although J has revealed what's happened from their point of view, pig has for whatever reason decided to keep shtum, presumably so as not to create some sort of storm, but who the hell knows?
I know it's speculation central, that is the nature of TSR, but i'm just getting bored of reading **** thats all.
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