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Vardy Foundation Schools Teaching Creationism watch

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    I believe that an Almighty being created everything around us and that includes us! People who believe as I do call this being God.

    So I believe in a divine creator and ergo must be a creationist. You can use whatever terms you like - it makes no difference to me as my belief is firm. It doesn't change, unlike the theories put forward by scientists. There are many scientists, mathematicians, physicists and so on who also believe in a divine creator. Does this mean they also believe in Father Christmas? I think not - and anyone who draws an anaology between the two is being very silly!

    The problem with some who would rather put their trust in those scientists who are still without the answers to creation (i.e. hypotheses) are that they are unwilling to be less arrogant and believe that there is someone who is mightier than them.

    I respect you even though you disagree with me - can you do the same?
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    (Original post by savvy10)
    Peter Vardy is a complete nut. He's entitled to his own opinion, however crazy it may be, but it is a disgrace that the government actively facilitates the imposition of his extremist views on children by selling him a school!

    lol - whatever next? A belief in God is now an extremist view!

    What about those who would foist Darwin's theory on children? - this could be construed as being extremist if we use your argument.

    Once again, the media has got it wrong - and lots of you believe everything you read in the papers?

    The Vardy foundation teach evolution alongside creationism, giving the children the opportunity to consider both. Extremists who want to wipe God out of the equation are the ones who need to be watched with great care.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    From an article in the Times today, the Vardy foundation, set up by Sir Peter Vardy, "buys" schools for £2 million (getting a £20 million government grant) and then runs them.

    Whilst these schools get better exam results (which you'd expect with an extra £22 million, Vardy insists on teaching creationism as a literal reading for the Book of Genesis, despite the fact that Creationism has been shown to be wrong, this is now accepted by most religious officials.

    The foundation wants to buy Northcliffe Comprehensive in Doncaster and run it with its strong religious ethos, however neither parents nor teachers want the school to be run by such a group, indeed they are staging a protest rally this weekend and have a website, www.cadpag.co.uk

    The Foundation already owns Emmanuel College in Gateshead and imposes its extreme religious beliefs on the pupils.

    What do other members think of the Vardy Foundation and its buying of schools whether wanted or not?

    This statement from Emmanuel College may explain some misconceptions and untruths from the media.

    http://www.christian.org.uk/emmanuel11march02.htm
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    I respect you even though you disagree with me - can you do the same?
    How about no.

    (Original post by yawn1)
    "I have just one thing to say" - at the final judgement I can turn to you non-believers, smile and say "I told you so".

    Bye bye friends for now, things to do, places to go and all that.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    lol - whatever next? A belief in God is now an extremist view!

    What about those who would foist Darwin's theory on children? - this could be construed as being extremist if we use your argument.

    Once again, the media has got it wrong - and lots of you believe everything you read in the papers?

    The Vardy foundation teach evolution alongside creationism, giving the children the opportunity to consider both. Extremists who want to wipe God out of the equation are the ones who need to be watched with great care.
    Creationism is part of religious education, evolution part of Science. The two should not be taught side by side but in different classes for different subjects which is what the two cover and then people may choose which to believe rather than be subjected to the nonsense that Creationism is as valid and proven a theory as that of evolution.
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    (Original post by Babygal)
    i don't understand why the parents are protesting, why send them to the school in the first place, yeh it has a great education system but if you don't want you children to be a religious and ethical surrounding then why bother
    Back on topic:
    The children concerned have been going to an ordinary comprehensive. The proposal is to hand the school over to Vardy and friends with a nice hefty whack of spondulicks and give the children, their parents and staff the option of putting up with the rather eccentric alterations ro the curriculum and ethos or leaving the school.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    It is NOT true that the Emmanuel College, Gateshead teach only creationism. The theory of evolution is also taught alongside that of creationism.

    It is spurious nonsense, scandalous and untrue to say otherwise. The agenda of those who seek to undermine the work of the schools is suspect to say the least. A sign of the times we live in.

    There is no finite proof provided by science to disprove that everything was created by an Almighty being - and science is as much a belief system as a belief in God!
    But even many passionate Christians no longer believe in a literal translation of Genesis - it would involve all dinosaur fossels being fake! We know the world is over 10,000 years old, as we now know the world is flat.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    "I have just one thing to say" - at the final judgement I can turn to you non-believers, smile and say "I told you so".

    Bye bye friends for now, things to do, places to go and all that.
    There will be no final judgement. See you in nothingness!
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    lol - whatever next? A belief in God is now an extremist view!

    What about those who would foist Darwin's theory on children? - this could be construed as being extremist if we use your argument.

    Once again, the media has got it wrong - and lots of you believe everything you read in the papers?

    The Vardy foundation teach evolution alongside creationism, giving the children the opportunity to consider both. Extremists who want to wipe God out of the equation are the ones who need to be watched with great care.
    You are still suggesting that evolution and Genesis are valid "alternative" "beliefs". They are not.

    You are also suggesting that Christianity and understanding and acceptance of scientific evidence and conclusions are mutually exclusive, which they are not.

    If you cannot face life without clinging on to a belief in an all-powerful conciousness of a level unknown to us, and "above" us, and you wish to doggedly follow every word in some idolised compilation of short stories, then that is fine by me.

    What I will not permit you are your ilk (extremist Christians) to do is to poison the minds of our children through your refusal to embrace changes in our understanding of what we are. An ability to properly evaluate evidence is essential for modern life, especially in the context of science. You and Peter Vardy actively promote irrationality and self-denial.

    I suspect if this were Galileo's time you would have us believe that the Earth was at the centre of the universe.


    I'll see you in nothingness...
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    (Original post by -mb-)
    You are still suggesting that evolution and Genesis are valid "alternative" "beliefs". They are not.

    You are also suggesting that Christianity and understanding and acceptance of scientific evidence and conclusions are mutually exclusive, which they are not.

    If you cannot face life without clinging on to a belief in an all-powerful conciousness of a level unknown to us, and "above" us, and you wish to doggedly follow every word in some idolised compilation of short stories, then that is fine by me.

    What I will not permit you are your ilk (extremist Christians) to do is to poison the minds of our children through your refusal to embrace changes in our understanding of what we are. An ability to properly evaluate evidence is essential for modern life, especially in the context of science. You and Peter Vardy actively promote irrationality and self-denial.

    I suspect if this were Galileo's time you would have us believe that the Earth was at the centre of the universe.


    I'll see you in nothingness...
    Well said.
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    Well said.
    Because it supports your beliefs!
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    (Original post by -mb-)
    You are still suggesting that evolution and Genesis are valid "alternative" "beliefs". They are not.

    You are also suggesting that Christianity and understanding and acceptance of scientific evidence and conclusions are mutually exclusive, which they are not.

    If you cannot face life without clinging on to a belief in an all-powerful conciousness of a level unknown to us, and "above" us, and you wish to doggedly follow every word in some idolised compilation of short stories, then that is fine by me.

    What I will not permit you are your ilk (extremist Christians) to do is to poison the minds of our children through your refusal to embrace changes in our understanding of what we are. An ability to properly evaluate evidence is essential for modern life, especially in the context of science. You and Peter Vardy actively promote irrationality and self-denial.

    I suspect if this were Galileo's time you would have us believe that the Earth was at the centre of the universe.


    I'll see you in nothingness...
    "Extremist Christians" and fundamentalists - lol.

    Passionate words that do not reflect the situation.

    The world is at the centre of the universe, metaphorically speaking, because it contains God's most special creation - Man.

    I am at a loss to understand why a belief in God provokes such a vehement and hateful reaction from "Extremist atheists".

    mb - although you may be proud of your cut and paste job (because you are accusing me of things I have not said, so must conclude you found this paragraph following a search of the web) it does not impress me because it gives no more definitive answers than I have.

    Your final copy quote from LH contradicts yourself - if there is nothingness [sic] how will you see me!
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    The world is at the centre of the universe, metaphorically speaking, because it contains God's most special creation - Man.
    Only if you accept that anthropocentric vanity. The universe, in all its size and age, may have been set going to give Man an obstacle course, a celestial Olympics with infinite rewards or punishments. Equally, it may be meant to give the beetles a ride. There are more of them and they've been around longer.
    I am at a loss to understand why a belief in God provokes such a vehement and hateful reaction from "Extremist atheists".
    It is not your beliefs which annoy us. It is the proposal that a publicly-funded school and a load of public money should be handed over against the will of the parents pupils and teachers of the school, to a foundation with views so weird that even other people who believe in god think it's a bit OTT.


    It is curious that Vardy started off as a second-hand card salesman. Never mind anything else, would you sell a used school to this man?
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    (Original post by yawn1)

    I am at a loss to understand why a belief in God provokes such a vehement and hateful reaction from "Extremist atheists".
    using your own words to explain...

    (Original post by yawn1)
    "I have just one thing to say" - at the final judgement I can turn to you non-believers, smile and say "I told you so".

    Bye bye friends for now, things to do, places to go and all that.
    And in reference to this thread i dont think the word hateful is appropriate to describe the reaction nor is 'extreme' for the atheists.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    "Extremist Christians" and fundamentalists - lol.

    Passionate words that do not reflect the situation.

    The world is at the centre of the universe, metaphorically speaking, because it contains God's most special creation - Man.

    I am at a loss to understand why a belief in God provokes such a vehement and hateful reaction from "Extremist atheists".

    mb - although you may be proud of your cut and paste job (because you are accusing me of things I have not said, so must conclude you found this paragraph following a search of the web) it does not impress me because it gives no more definitive answers than I have.

    Your final copy quote from LH contradicts yourself - if there is nothingness [sic] how will you see me!
    You are f****ing insulting for someone who follows a religion centred on compassion and therefore tolerance..."a cut-and-paste job" indeed. Cheek! Are atheists not even permitted to be articulate..:rolleyes:

    I can assure you those bloody well are my original words...actually I'm rather pleased with them.

    Perhaps you should actually look for them on the net yourself before making unsubstatiated allegations that don't exactly work to increase my respect for you...

    Perhaps you should focus instead on addressing the issues I raise, rather than trying to divert the interesting discussion; when you say I accuse you of saying things you did not say, you are lying.

    As for the "see you in nothiness" - I was merely echoing it when it had lready been said. I thought it was quite funny actually, and if you are unable to detect that it was intended to be ironic, not literal, then I suggest you return to these forums when you have the maturity to focus on the main thread of a discussion. I really want you to deal with the main thrust of my argument, which is fundamental to all our disquiet about Peter Vardy getting a bargain on a school...

    To lay out what the real issues are, since you clearly do not understand (or do not want to):

    - The lack of recognition that creationism and evolution are not "alternatives"...
    The problem with some who would rather put their trust in those scientists who are still without the answers to creation (i.e. hypotheses) are that they are unwilling to be less arrogant and believe that there is someone who is mightier than them.
    That explicitly says that we "trust" scientists, or "trust" Christianity - thereby saying they are alternatives...leading to the following...

    - The lack of recognition that you can be a Christian without having a literal belief in Genesis...
    There is no finite proof provided by science to disprove that everything was created by an Almighty being - and science is as much a belief system as a belief in God.
    As well as supporting the previous point, this shows that you think
    a) Science must disprove the existance of God in order to be valid
    leading to b) Science and Christianity are "belief systems" that are not compatible...

    - That Peter Vardy's approach prejudices essential evaluative skills, that it would be irresponsible for our children not to be taught....
    ...it makes no difference to me as my belief is firm. It doesn't change, unlike the theories put forward by scientists.
    This is dangerous stuff, I hope you are never placed in a position of responsibility with impressionable young people...

    As I said before...an ability to properly evaluate evidence is essential for modern life, especially in the context of science. You and Peter Vardy actively promote irrationality and self-denial.

    As for...
    The world is at the centre of the universe, metaphorically speaking, because it contains God's most special creation - Man.
    All I can say is QED.

    You know that's an idiotic comment, and I think you will find most Christians believe that it is the whole Earth that is special, and all the creatures on it are included.

    I wholeheartedly agree with this mainstream Christian view...we're descended from the fish...
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    Here is a link to the news which is more balanced inasmuch as it gives insight into the feelings of the many people involved in the proposals

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3825461.stm

    Nothing is to be gained from getting all het-up about creationism and darwinism as neither side will ever agree with the other.

    I think that is the more mature take on the matter.
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    In other words you have no reply to the key issues raised in this thread, and you don't have the grace to admit that it is clear that the "teaching" of creationism in conjunction with evolution is harmful to children, and should not be permitted.

    If this is not the case, then you should continue with the line of debate...
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    (Original post by -mb-)
    In other words you have no reply to the key issues raised in this thread, and you don't have the grace to admit that it is clear that the "teaching" of creationism in conjunction with evolution is harmful to children, and should not be permitted.

    If this is not the case, then you should continue with the line of debate...
    Quite right, Yawn1 your line of debate has in the most part been completely irrevelant.
    We are not saying that God did or didnt create the universe, only that the belief creationism is not science and should not be taught as such. The chances are so low that creationsim it makes more sense to teach children to avoid being struck by lightning than creationism.
    Also pathetic attempts at insulting us by telling us we are going to hell when you have no idea what religious precuasion if any we are is exceedingly unhelpful.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Quite right, Yawn1 your line of debate has in the most part been completely irrevelant.
    We are not saying that God did or didnt create the universe, only that the belief creationism is not science and should not be taught as such. The chances are so low that creationsim it makes more sense to teach children to avoid being struck by lightning than creationism.
    Also pathetic attempts at insulting us by telling us we are going to hell when you have no idea what religious precuasion if any we are is exceedingly

    unhelpful.
    Please post my 'pathetic attempt at insulting you by telling you that you are going to hell' - I know you won't find it because I never said it; the idea that I would even think it is abhorrent to me.

    I have tried to confirm that I believe Man was created by God (who created everything) rather than Man resulted from an event in space. To me, the wonderous intracacies of all life is all I need to believe in a divine creator. I was given the opportunity to consider evolution as hypothesised by Darwin but I rejected it in favour of divine creation.

    This is what schools should be doing - exposing the children to both beliefs and letting them make their own choices to which they think is correct for them.

    Would you deny them this inalienable right?

    Some of you posters have been extremely unfair to me, I feel somewhat bullied by you - the 'mob' mentality is not pleasant (this is how it comes across to me).

    Step back, take a look at what you have posted and try to see how it comes across to another, before condemning me.

    I have seen this style of attack on too many forums to too many of those who believe in God and it is an insidious form of denigration.

    What we accuse others of is often a reflection (or projection) of what we do ourselves!
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Please post my 'pathetic attempt at insulting you by telling you that you are going to hell' - I know you won't find it because I never said it; the idea that I would even think it is abhorrent to me.
    that would be when you said: "I have just one thing to say" - at the final judgement I can turn to you non-believers, smile and say "I told you so".

    Bye bye friends for now, things to do, places to go and all that."

    (Original post by yawn1)
    I have tried to confirm that I believe Man was created by God (who created everything) rather than Man resulted from an event in space. To me, the wonderous intracacies of all life is all I need to believe in a divine creator. I was given the opportunity to consider evolution as hypothesised by Darwin but I rejected it in favour of divine creation.
    so reject evolution? on what basis do you do this? and would you actually confirm whether you are just defending creationism as a belief that you think should be offered as an alternative or do you actually believe in it? It is possible to believe in both evolution and God like the majority of christians do.

    (Original post by yawn1)
    This is what schools should be doing - exposing the children to both beliefs and letting them make their own choices to which they think is correct for them.

    Would you deny them this inalienable right?
    as we have said before do you think it is right to teach algebra in history lessons? if not please tell us why you think creationism is a science and deserves to be taught as such?

    (Original post by yawn1)
    Some of you posters have been extremely unfair to me, I feel somewhat bullied by you - the 'mob' mentality is not pleasant (this is how it comes across to me).

    Step back, take a look at what you have posted and try to see how it comes across to another, before condemning me.

    I have seen this style of attack on too many forums to too many of those who believe in God and it is an insidious form of denigration.

    What we accuse others of is often a reflection (or projection) of what we do ourselves!
    Considering you have failed to consider a large number of logical reasons we have put to you about why creationism should not be taught in science lessons using public money it is hardly suprising that we have got annoyed with your failure to consider what we have said.
 
 
 
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