Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

"We need to talk about anonymity for rape suspects." Watch

    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Personally I'm in favour of complete anonymity for rape suspects, but the argument in favour of publication of names is to encourage other victims to come forward, which may help establish a case in the event of guilt.

    Regarding the bear's point, it strikes me that penalties should be levied, but only where a criminal standard of evidence (i.e. beyond reasonable doubt that a) the accused was not raped; b) the accused claimed to have been raped; and c) the accused knew they had not been raped) is met - and this will not be at all easy.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    It's the Internet which causes this problem, and it hasn't been around that long. I'm pretty confident the law will catch up. In the meantime, he will have to change his name - at least that's pretty easy to do in England.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by abruiseonthesky)
    That's not what I'm saying. That's a given. What I'm asking is, how do you know/prove an accusation's fake?
    Feminists, when confronted with any kind of data on false rape accusations, often brush off the "small percentage of men falsely accused" as expendable casualties in the pursuit of justice. So if a small percentage of error is acceptable then why don't we use lie detectors which are 98% accurate? Sure, 1 in 50 will go wrong but they already said it was ok so....
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I agree.

    One of the reasons (amongst many others) I didn't want to report it when it happened to me was that I didn't want to ruin someone's life. I expect I will likely get a lot of stick for this. However, I don't think that someone should have the label of "rapist" following them for the rest of their lives for something they did when absolutely smashed to a girl who they'd spent the past hour kissing/talking to.

    I imagine it is a million times worse when you haven't even committed the crime.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Got to agree.
    • Community Assistant
    Online

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Feminists, when confronted with any kind of data on false rape accusations, often brush off the "small percentage of men falsely accused" as expendable casualties in the pursuit of justice. So if a small percentage of error is acceptable then why don't we use lie detectors which are 98% accurate? Sure, 1 in 50 will go wrong but they already said it was ok so....
    False accusations are clearly awful. There is next to no evidence for widespread false accusations though and a CPS report in around 2012 concluded that they were very rare.

    If you're arguing that they are widespread you must provide some proof or evidence to suggest they are.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    False accusations are clearly awful. There is next to no evidence for widespread false accusations though and a CPS report in around 2012 concluded that they were very rare.

    If you're arguing that they are widespread you must provide some proof or evidence to suggest they are.
    I'm arguing that it is very possible that they are widespread and that evidence pertaining to the contrary can be somewhat....doubtful.

    I'm not taking that burden of proof sorry.
    • Community Assistant
    Online

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    I'm arguing that it is very possible that they are widespread and that evidence pertaining to the contrary can be somewhat....doubtful.

    I'm not taking that burden of proof sorry.
    There was an official investigation into it by the CPS who found no evidence whatsoever of widespread false allegations. Yet on the back of no evidence at all, you think you know better.

    If you are asserting that there are vast numbers of false allegations then let's see your evidence. You have to back up your claim.

    If you are arguing that they are widespread, the onus is on you to prove it. So go on, the floor is yours.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    There was an official investigation into it by the CPS who found no evidence whatsoever of widespread false allegations. Yet on the back of no evidence at all, you think you know better.

    If you are asserting that there are vast numbers of false allegations then let's see your evidence. You have to back up your claim.

    If you are arguing that they are widespread, the onus is on you to prove it. So go on, the floor is yours.
    Source that evidence please and drop the strawman, I never made any assertions.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    Feminists, when confronted with any kind of data on false rape accusations, often brush off the "small percentage of men falsely accused" as expendable casualties in the pursuit of justice. So if a small percentage of error is acceptable then why don't we use lie detectors which are 98% accurate? Sure, 1 in 50 will go wrong but they already said it was ok so....
    This is a very good point, and while I do identify as a feminist I do so loosely (as this is one of many, many problems within the movement). The statistics of false rape accusations, even in feminist posts/articles/infographics, have always bothered me; while a majority of rape accusations are legitimate, there's something like 3% (if I'm remembering this correctly - I may be wrong, so don't quote me on it) which are false.

    However this isn't a problem unique to rape allegations - innocent people are tried and even convicted of almost every crime. This is a problem with the justice system as a whole.

    While I do believe that steps should be taken to minimise false accusations for any crime, I don't believe making these accusations a crime is the way to go - this will only cause even more people not to report crime, which is already a huge problem re: rape victims, especially male ones.

    As far as the issue of anonymity goes, I believe that alleged rapists should be allowed the same level of anonymity as other people accused of violent crimes against a person/persons (e.g. murder, attempted murder, abuse/violence etc.)
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rachel x)

    While I do believe that steps should be taken to minimise false accusations for any crime, I don't believe making these accusations a crime is the way to go - this will only cause even more people not to report crime, which is already a huge problem re: rape victims, especially male ones.
    But they have nothing to fear if they're telling the truth.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    But they have nothing to fear if they're telling the truth.
    The justice system isn't perfect - as I said above, innocent people get tried and convicted far too much. That would also apply to this scenario.

    Rape victims don't need anything else to worry about when reporting the crime. They already have too much (ie people not believing them, it turning into a he-said/she-said thing, that they'll get asked questions like "what were your wearing?" and essentially blamed for their own rape, ridicule - especially for male victims... the list goes on).
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bornblue)
    There was an official investigation into it by the CPS who found no evidence whatsoever of widespread false allegations. Yet on the back of no evidence at all, you think you know better.

    If you are asserting that there are vast numbers of false allegations then let's see your evidence. You have to back up your claim.

    If you are arguing that they are widespread, the onus is on you to prove it. So go on, the floor is yours.
    The problem with false allegations is unfortunately the same as proving actual allegations to be true, the bar has to be high but unfortunately it is extremely difficult to prove it.

    I don't have any proof but personally I don't have any doubt that both actually occur more often than is proven.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by rachel x)
    The justice system isn't perfect - as I said above, innocent people get tried and convicted far too much. That would also apply to this scenario.

    Rape victims don't need anything else to worry about when reporting the crime. They already have too much (ie people not believing them, it turning into a he-said/she-said thing, that they'll get asked questions like "what were your wearing?" and essentially blamed for their own rape, ridicule - especially for male victims... the list goes on).
    No because we would apply due process (as should always be). False accusers get caught via video evidence and the such and would only result in a conviction if it was a blatant lie.
    No one would be punished for not being able to prove a rape did happen.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Nununu)
    Not guilty =/= innocent.
    As far as I know we still operate on the presumption of innocence in this country
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a noble chance)
    As far as I know we still operate on the presumption of innocence in this country
    We do. If you're found not guilty of a crime in a way that isn't, for example, insanity (i.e. not guilty by reason of insanity, where you've still committed the crime but have used that defence), you're innocent.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by a noble chance)
    As far as I know we still operate on the presumption of innocence in this country
    Not guilty could meab there was reasonable doubt.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jebedee)
    No because we would apply due process (as should always be). False accusers get caught via video evidence and the such and would only result in a conviction if it was a blatant lie.
    No one would be punished for not being able to prove a rape did happen.
    That is a good point, but the stress of an accusation and trial should still be considered whether they are found guilty or not. I personally don't believe it's a good idea, because of the amount of other things there are for these people to worry about - the chance they could be criminally charged for a false accusation, not just non-criminally accused (the claim that a rape accusation is false is far more common than a true false accusation), is just another thing to add. I do see where you're coming from though.

    (Original post by a noble chance)
    As far as I know we still operate on the presumption of innocence in this country
    This applies to "false accusers" as well. If an accused rapist is found not guilty, it doesn't mean the accusation was false. It means that you couldn't prove it was true.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by the bear)
    the penalties for false rape allegations should match those for rape.
    That is beyond ridiculous.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    That is beyond ridiculous.
    It's really not. If you accuse someone of rape with the intention of destroying their life, why should you get off lightly?
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: January 16, 2016
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Should Spain allow Catalonia to declare independence?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.