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"We need to talk about anonymity for rape suspects." Watch

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    (Original post by a noble chance)
    And how do you arrive relably at this 'solid estimate' exactly?

    I notice that you have yet to name who you are talking about or cite any of your sources.



    This is an unwarranted and offensive series of accusations and I have reported them accordingly. No one is suggesting that rape is not a terrible crime, but I do not believe that the answer consists of destroying our judicial safeguards and making up statistics seemingly out of thin air. I see no benefit to waxing lyrical about how awful rape is; that is a given. I am simply trying to be practical about this.

    I think it is likely that many rapes do not end in convictions. I see no way of resolving this as a justice system without destroying everything that is good about it. What exactly do you propose we do to ensure that more rapes end in convictions, and how do you propose we go about this in such a way that will avoid convicting innocent people?
    If you want to disbelieve me, then you can. I do not want to name him.

    In all honestly, I do not care in the slightest if your feelings are hurt. Report ahead, love! Cry all you will. Scream and shout, have a temper tantrum. Understand that this is a difficult issue. When people such as yourself say words which appear to diminish the importance of rape, and belittle it in your overarching concern for false accusations, emotion, clearly, cannot be avoided. But it is nice to see that you actually have some! Maybe turn that to empathy and direct that towards actual victims. Just some sage advice for you sweetie x
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    The act is different, and so is the intent. They are equal in that they both have the potential and likelihood to destroy a person's life.
    And here we have it. You should have said it outright! Many people consider rape up there with murder, the very worse of crimes. The very worse experience a human can be put through. You, obviously, do not. I hope one day you change your mind and understand.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    And here we have it. You should have said it outright! Many people consider rape up there with murder, the very worse of crimes. The very worse experience a human can be put through. You, obviously, do not. I hope one day you change your mind and understand.
    I don't think rape is quite as bad as murder, though it's close. With one you at least have the chance to recover, though it takes years of therapy and sometimes medication, and doesn't always help.

    You can't recover from death.
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    I don't think rape is quite as bad as murder, though it's close. With one you at least have the chance to recover, though it takes years of therapy and sometimes medication, and doesn't always help.

    You can't recover from death.
    So for you, murder is the ultimate crime. And below that rape and any other crime that causes the life of the victim to be drastically altered are all equal and all deserving of the same punishment. All equal. Despite as you mentioned, the recovery process of the rape victim. The PTSD, the therapy, the violence endured, the physical agony, the exploitation of your body on the most intimate level. I got to ask, I really do, do you really believe false accusations to be equal to being raped? Saying this isn't the case doesn't negate the problem of false accusations. Please reply and if the answer is yes, I'll stop barraging you.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    So for you, murder is the ultimate crime. And below that rape and any other crime that causes the life of the victim to be drastically altered are all equal and all deserving of the same punishment. All equal. Despite as you mentioned, the recovery process of the rape victim. The PTSD, the therapy, the violence endured, the physical agony, the exploitation of your body on the most intimate level. I got to ask, I really do, do you really believe false accusations to be equal to being raped? Please reply and if the answer is yes, I'll stop barraging you.
    Murder is the ultimate crime, yes, because you are depriving somebody of life.

    As I said, the two crimes are intrinsically different. They're just not comparable in this way.
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    Murder is the ultimate crime, yes, because you are depriving somebody of life.

    As I said, the two crimes are intrinsically different. They're just not comparable in this way.
    In suggesting they deserve equal punishment you are directly comparing them and suggesting they are of equal weighting. What a shame for you, I hope you change your mind one day!
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    Murder is the ultimate crime, yes, because you are depriving somebody of life.

    As I said, the two crimes are intrinsically different. They're just not comparable in this way.
    All crimes are comparable by the sentence they carry. If you think rape and false allegations should carry the same sentence, then you are saying they are broadly equal in terms of impact.

    I'm sure there are situations where this is the case, but I'm guessing most false allegations would never lead to a rape trial (since by definition there would be zero evidence to support a trial and prosecutors aren't stupid) so the impact would usually be smaller than an actual rape.
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    (Original post by llys)
    Of course boys are more concerned about false allegations of rape than about actual rape. They think that the former could affect them, and that the latter could not, and quite naturally that steers the discussion (they do not yet have daughters). For girls it is exactly the same, just the other way around.
    Where are you getting this from?

    What is it with younger generations and their total disregard to the fundamental principles of a free society? All humans deserve the right to a trial before punishment. I, and many others, believe that 'innocent until proven guilty' should extend to social punishment, alongside judicial punishments. You shouldn't demonise the act of standing up for the rights of any human beings, whether they're thieves, rapists or terrorists.
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    (Original post by york_wbu)
    Where are you getting this from?

    What is it with younger generations and their total disregard to the fundamental principles of a free society? All humans deserve the right to a trial before punishment. I, and many others, believe that 'innocent until proven guilty' should extend to social punishment, alongside judicial punishments. You shouldn't demonise the act of standing up for the rights of any human beings, whether they're thieves, rapists or terrorists.
    What? What's wrong with my post?

    I'm not demonising anyone, I think it's completely natural for a boy to be more concerned about false allegations than about rape, for the reasons I mentioned. I also think it's completely natural for a girl to be more concerned about rape than about false allegations, for the same reasons. It's short-sighted of both but not a big problem IMO.

    I doubt anyone is genuinely thinking about the "fundamental principles of a free society" in these kinds of arguments. Good for you though. :yep:
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    (Original post by rachel x)
    You are talking about a person who has possibly been through a very traumatic experience, having to defend themselves for reporting the person that put them through said traumatic experience.

    "Criminally charged" =/= guilty
    And we would do the same if the charge was murder, theft etc. The justice system can be inconvenient and cause undue stress at times but it is the price we pay for having a justice system in the first place. All you can do is suck it up and be happy you live in a country with a functioning system in place.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    And we would do the same if the charge was murder, theft etc. The justice system can be inconvenient and cause undue stress at times but it is the price we pay for having a justice system in the first place. All you can do is suck it up and be happy you live in a country with a functioning system in place.
    Murder? What, you would put a murder victim on trial? That could be interesting...
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    (Original post by llys)
    What? What's wrong with my post?
    You're dismissing the discussion about the rights of those accused of rape, and those convicted of rape. Your reasoning for this is bull****.
    *hurr, durr, they're rapists, they deserve what they get. Why would you protect them? It must be because you're all boys.*
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    (Original post by rachel x)
    Murder? What, you would put a murder victim on trial? That could be interesting...
    We question people intensely who were connected to the murder (even if not a suspect) and will be upset at the recent loss of the victim. No one argues that it isn't a negative overall experience for them but we all tacitly agree that it is 100% necessary.

    Why should rape be an exception?
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    (Original post by york_wbu)
    You're dismissing the discussion about the rights of those accused of rape, and those convicted of rape. Your reasoning for this is bull****.
    *hurr, durr, they're rapists, they deserve what they get. Why would you protect them? It must be because you're all boys.*
    You need to do Reading Comprehension 101.
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    (Original post by llys)
    You need to do Reading Comprehension 101.
    What am I missing? That's the attitude that you, and other people on this thread, have about the rights of these people.
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    (Original post by Jebedee)
    We question people intensely who were connected to the murder (even if not a suspect) and will be upset at the recent loss of the victim. No one argues that it isn't a negative overall experience for them but we all tacitly agree that it is 100% necessary.

    Why should rape be an exception?
    Rape victims are often called to the witness stand in the trial where the rapist is the defendant. That's comparable to what you're saying. I'm not arguing against that happening at all - you're right, it's necessary.

    Having the rape victim BE the defendant is something entirely different. It's unnecessary, it will further traumatise the victim and cause a hell of a lot more stress than being a witness.
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    (Original post by york_wbu)
    What am I missing? That's the attitude that you, and other people on this thread, have about the rights of these people.
    I haven't made any statement at all about alleged rapists (except on the first page when the thread was still on topic). The statement you quoted was only an observation about the discussion of rape by relatively normal boys and girls on the internet.
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    (Original post by rachel x)
    Rape victims are often called to the witness stand in the trial where the rapist is the defendant. That's comparable to what you're saying. I'm not arguing against that happening at all - you're right, it's necessary.

    Having the rape victim BE the defendant is something entirely different. It's unnecessary, it will further traumatise the victim and cause a hell of a lot more stress than being a witness.
    Well this can be easily avoided with some regulation. The law has a very good idea what kinds of evidence will fly in such a case so they could opt only to open cases that do have substantial evidence against the defendant.

    Either way, I don't believe hurt feelings should even be considered a thing in court. I prefer my justice cold, hard and efficient.
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    (Original post by llys)
    I haven't made any statement at all about alleged rapists (except on the first page when the thread was still on topic). The statement you quoted was only an observation about the discussion of rape by relatively normal boys and girls on the internet.
    But you have made a statement about people convicted of rape. You made it clear that you thought rape convicts were getting an unjust amount of attention and discussion.
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    (Original post by york_wbu)
    But you have made a statement about people convicted of rape. You made it clear that you thought rape convicts were getting an unjust amount of attention and discussion.
    What? Where?
 
 
 
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