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"We need to talk about anonymity for rape suspects."

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Original post by Jebedee
Then what is your answer? If we don't ask questions then we just throw the accused under the bus without proper trial, which it sounds like you would be absolutely fine with just to save someone's feelings.
If the holes are so easy then point them out, but I don't think you can, especially as you've just demonstrated extreme bias on your end.

I care about rape victims and they deserve justice, is it so wrong to believe that the accused deserves that same measure of justice?


Ah ****, here I am answering again.

We do ask questions. Of course. When we're putting the alleged rapist on trial. Who, as I pointed out to another person, is most likely a rapist at least by the time they reach trial (as an allegation with no evidence wouldn't go to trial).

That's a hole. ^^^

Extreme bias? Or caring about people?
Do I have to point out that if I've demonstrated extreme bias, so have you?

"Same measure of justice"? Nah. Punishment to fit the crime, sorry. False accusations don't deserve a full on trial, and as I said I don't think criminal status is a good idea re: the likelihood of victims to report.
At what point does it become a false accusation?
People have said if it goes to court it is unlikely to be a false accusation (I don't mean everyone that goes to court is guilty) which is true, but why does it have to go that far?
Original post by rachel x
Ah ****, here I am answering again.

We do ask questions. Of course. When we're putting the alleged rapist on trial. Who, as I pointed out to another person, is most likely a rapist at least by the time they reach trial (as an allegation with no evidence wouldn't go to trial).

That's a hole. ^^^

Extreme bias? Or caring about people?
Do I have to point out that if I've demonstrated extreme bias, so have you?

"Same measure of justice"? Nah. Punishment to fit the crime, sorry. False accusations don't deserve a full on trial, and as I said I don't think criminal status is a good idea re: the likelihood of victims to report.


there was a case with no evidence of rape just someone's word against another's just recently so don't start saying everyone in court is guilty, that thought is idiotic and goes against this country's judicial system
Original post by rachel x
Alleged rapists get anonymity until it goes to court. If it goes to court, I am willing to bet that it was not a false accusation, because to go to court you need evidence (that isn't circumstantial, e.g. DNA that could be from consensual sex. You generally need a stronger argument). "Not guilty" =/= innocent, so not convicted =/= false accusation.


You pretend to know about the law yet you are totally ignorant of the legal foundation of 'innocent before proven guilty'. It's people like you who make things difficult for innocent people who got accused of rape.

Do you even realize what you're suggesting? You're saying charged = not a false accusation. Where does this lead us if it's not a false accusation? That it's a correct accusation but it just so happens that the 'rapist' gets away. You are the reason why anonymity should have given to the suspects even after they're charged.

And BTW, no, alleged rapists don't get anonymity at any stage. Ben Sullivan, former president of Oxford Union, was accused of rape and he was never charged.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
I suppose. But what about cases where they knew each other, given 95% of rape is committed by someone the victim knows?


I'd advise against you using the 95% figure since a simple Google search will tell you the figure fluctuates a lot based on the source, but of course that's beyond the point.

First of all, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make - if it's impossible to prove a false accusation in certain contexts, then no-one would be prosecuted. So what's the issue?

When the two people do know each other, it's a lot more difficult to prove. If the accused wishes to convict the other person, then s/he will need to provide enough evidence. How? I don't know. But the impossibility of this is also a reason why suspects, even after they're charged, should be given anonymity.
Original post by Twinpeaks
That is beyond ridiculous.


ermm no it is eminently sensible. genuine rape allegers will not be put off... fake allegers will think twice before destroying the lives of innocent people.
Original post by rachel x
Ah ****, here I am answering again.

We do ask questions. Of course. When we're putting the alleged rapist on trial. Who, as I pointed out to another person, is most likely a rapist at least by the time they reach trial (as an allegation with no evidence wouldn't go to trial).

That's a hole. ^^^

Extreme bias? Or caring about people?
Do I have to point out that if I've demonstrated extreme bias, so have you?

"Same measure of justice"? Nah. Punishment to fit the crime, sorry. False accusations don't deserve a full on trial, and as I said I don't think criminal status is a good idea re: the likelihood of victims to report.


By same measure of justice I did not mean punishment (although I do believe it should be the same for both crimes). I meant that the government has an equally responsibility to every person. It has a responsibility to the alleged rapist just as much as the alleged rapee(sp?). But you seem to think that it is ok to forego that responsibility for the party you don't identify with (the man) in order to save hurt feelings.

Sorry that just doesn't wash, everyone has to be treated equally under the law.

Original post by abruiseonthesky
No, they're saying it's not a big an issue re: occurrence as rape. That's all.


Yeah, and they managed to wangle themselves a fantastic deal on rape legislation (overturning the most basic facet of law) and don't want to rock the boat now. So now they have what they want there's no reason to start caring about the falsely accused now.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Little Toy Gun
I'd advise against you using the 95% figure since a simple Google search will tell you the figure fluctuates a lot based on the source, but of course that's beyond the point.

First of all, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make - if it's impossible to prove a false accusation in certain contexts, then no-one would be prosecuted. So what's the issue?

When the two people do know each other, it's a lot more difficult to prove. If the accused wishes to convict the other person, then s/he will need to provide enough evidence. How? I don't know. But the impossibility of this is also a reason why suspects, even after they're charged, should be given anonymity.


The point was that someone said people who accuse others of rape falsely should be punished the same as rapists. I asked how you'd prove that it was false. That's all.
Original post by Jebedee
Yeah, and they managed to wangle themselves a fantastic deal on rape legislation (overturning the most basic facet of law) and don't want to rock the boat now. So now they have what they want there's no reason to start caring about the falsely accused now.


Funny that, then, I'm a feminist and I'm very vocal on this issue. But obviously the very word 'feminist' means I'm an evil man-hating monster.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Funny that, then, I'm a feminist and I'm very vocal on this issue. But obviously the very word 'feminist' means I'm an evil man-hating monster.


Yes you should consider a new label as the feminist label is not only inherently one-sided, but has been hijacked by the aforementioned monsters.

Try egalitarian if you can stomach fighting for some men's issues once in a while.
Original post by Jebedee
Yes you should consider a new label as the feminist label is not only inherently one-sided, but has been hijacked by the aforementioned monsters.

Try egalitarian if you can stomach fighting for some men's issues once in a while.


Or maybe I could keep it, stick to its true definition (equality for both genders) and keep challenging perceptions that we're all like the radicals.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Or maybe I could keep it, stick to its true definition (equality for both genders) and keep challenging perceptions that we're all like the radicals.


No because it isn't relevant to our time now. The term feminism was created in a time when men had more rights than women, therefore solely fighting for women's rights would contribute to equality. But now the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction, fighting solely for women's rights creates more inequality. Therefore making feminism no longer about equal rights but only female empowerment.
Original post by Jebedee
No because it isn't relevant to our time now. The term feminism was created in a time when men had more rights than women, therefore solely fighting for women's rights would contribute to equality. But now the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction, fighting solely for women's rights creates more inequality. Therefore making feminism no longer about equal rights but only female empowerment.


That's your opinion.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
That's your opinion.


Yep, and anyone else who thinks that a disproportionately high suicide rate is more important than not enough female leads in video games and those pesky men that dare to say "hi" and "how are you?" on the street.
How can anyone disagree with this?

The law follows the the statement 'innocent until prove guilty'. They aren't guilty once initially accused. Therefore they don't warrant their name and picture being published everywhere. If the accused is found guilty then go ahead and release the picture. If not, don't. In some cases they should release the females name and picture just for lying.

Why is this controversial?

The amount of males who have been falsely accused for rape, prove not guilty in court but still had their lives ruined because of their name being all over the media and their reputation ruined is saddening.

It reminds me of this case http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390629/Durham-University-student-accused-rape-tells-court-alleged-victim-sent-flirty-Facebook-messages-including-sexy-pictures-bra-sex.html

It came of no surprise to me when the case was dropped. But that won't take back the negative publicity the guy got
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by abruiseonthesky
A compensation would be anonymity until a guilty verdict (unless waived) but the suspect is remanded in custody until trial. Imo anyway.


So people will have the choice of being in custody while in the eyes of the law innocent which will likely cost them at least their job or have their reputation destroyed and lose their job as well both have the potential to punish innocent people.
Original post by Jebedee
Yep, and anyone else who thinks that a disproportionately high suicide rate is more important than not enough female leads in video games and those pesky men that dare to say "hi" and "how are you?" on the street.


Mental health in general needs attention, so few doctors take you seriously over it. It's awful.

There is a difference between saying hi and asking a stranger to suck your cock.
Original post by joecphillips
So people will have the choice of being in custody while in the eyes of the law innocent which will likely cost them at least their job or have their reputation destroyed and lose their job as well both have the potential to punish innocent people.


See, it's a really difficult line to tread because of the public safety/individual liberty conflict. It's like someone who's accused of murder, they may be considered enough of a danger to the public to not be granted bail. It's a weird area and I'm glad I don't have to make the regulations for it.
Original post by abruiseonthesky
Mental health in general needs attention, so few doctors take you seriously over it. It's awful.

There is a difference between saying hi and asking a stranger to suck your cock.


Maybe it just lacks female casualties and that's why it isn't taken seriously. On the other hand, female domestic abuse shelters and breast cancer funding (compared to prostate cancer).
Original post by york_wbu
Due to the nature of false allegations, it's almost impossible to get a reliable source. Most studies show that the figure for malicious false rape allegations lie between 4-8%. While the average for other crimes lies around 2%. As for baseless accusations, studies show that for 25-50% of rape allegations, no crime was committed.
You also have to realise that a lot of baseless allegations and malicious false allegations are stopped before anything becomes official.

I can't help but feel that this is largely driven by angry feminists and their 'rape culture' culture.


'Not guilty' does not mean it was a false allegation.
Only about 20% of rapes are reported each year to the police according to the British Crime Survey.

There is no evidence whatsoever of widespread false allegations. The CPS themselves committed a serious investigation into and found there was not.

Yet on the back of no solid evidence the anti-feminists accuse vast numbers of women of making up such allegations.

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