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Where do classical liberals belong? any of you here? Watch

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    I'm wondering which parties do classical liberals vote for (both on TSR and IRL) and whether there are any of you here (from reading around, it doesn't seem there are any?). If you're, I prefer you answered my questions rather than a random liberal-hater.

    P.S. And please don't say UKIP.
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    UKIP.

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    JK, I'm not retarded. Lib Dems irl, and I quite like the NLP on TSR.
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    (Original post by pringles 4 days)
    UKIP.
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    JK, I'm not retarded. Lib Dems irl, and I quite like the NLP on TSR.


    I'll check the NLP although the "N" part worries me.

    Thx.
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    Read the Orange Book.
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    Read the Orange Book.
    Are any of the authors even relevant in the Lib Dems any more? I mean not that any Lib Dem is particularly relevant, but those guys seem even less so.

    With that said, it's still obviously the Lib Dems.
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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    Are any of the authors even relevant in the Lib Dems any more? I mean not that any Lib Dem is particularly relevant, but those guys seem even less so.

    With that said, it's still obviously the Lib Dems.
    Sadly not. But in all honesty, the Lib Dems are a dead corpse. I myself am questioning whether it is worth following and supporting a party who lost their way before I was even born BUT, thats for another day

    Nevertheless, it is an interesting read!
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    The only classical liberal I know doesn't vote. It is perfectly possible that a classical liberal may be inclined to vote UKIP, as they may find the european union a restraint on their negative freedom. However they may just as easily welcome the constraint it holds on supposedly tyrannical governments. They are probably most likely to vote conservative, although their belief is of a more neo-liberal pursuasion
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    (Original post by TitanCream)
    Sadly not. But in all honesty, the Lib Dems are a dead corpse. I myself am questioning whether it is worth following and supporting a party who lost their way before I was even born BUT, thats for another day

    Nevertheless, it is an interesting read!
    If you agree with content from the Orange Book then I don't see how they lost their way before you were born. I think they have done a pretty good job in government and over a few years prior, but the electorate obviously doesn't see it that way.
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    I think as well there seems to be a certain wooliness attached to liberalism. particularly for the Lib dems which is not necessarily the case. The Lib dems in what remains of them are I think rather more focused on the social democrat aspect of their amalgamative history.
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    I'd say classical liberals would be more comfortable amongst conservatives seeing as they are more right wing *and* the lib dems really arent all that liberal in the first place
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    Since the Lib Dems have disappeared, I would vote Conservatives - not a big fan of Cameron though, but he's still better than Corbyn (:afraid:).
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    I'd say classical liberals would be more comfortable amongst conservatives seeing as they are more right wing *and* the lib dems really arent all that liberal in the first place
    Unfortunately, the Lib Dems have squandered their Whig/Radical heritage and are now, as far as I can see, a social democratic party (which they always sort of were).

    But I would not fit with the Conservatives for a variety of reasons. One, I'm in favour of free markets and free trade, not protectionism. That includes labour markets which conservatives think ought to be centrally planned and managed ("how many nurses do 'we' need?" etc). With this attitude, (various) conservatives make alliances with some xenophobic elements which I'd find impossible to co-exist with. And lastly and more importantly, social conservatism and social liberalism are polar opposites. Not all conservatives are social conservatives but I disagree a whole lot with some traditionalist MPs who're revered among party members (Rees-Mogg?).

    Clearly, not ideal (I don't want to feel unwelcome) but sadly you're probably right.
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    You won't find a huge number of us on a student forum!

    The Tories are in favour of fiddling with labour markets, and Labour is in favour or fiddling with all the other markets.

    This is controversial, but Douglas Carswell is the only classical liberal I know is prominent in Parliament. People scoff because he's in UKIP, the party of closed borders ("WE'RE FULL!"), but I spoke to him after a speech he made at my university (not a UKIP event) and it's clear he's far removed from his party's supporters. He's in favour of immigration (though not completely free borders) and firmly believes that we live in a crony corporatist economy, and that having free markets (and perfect competition) would solve many of our problems.
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    (Original post by Poldork)
    The only classical liberal I know doesn't vote. It is perfectly possible that a classical liberal may be inclined to vote UKIP, as they may find the european union a restraint on their negative freedom. However they may just as easily welcome the constraint it holds on supposedly tyrannical governments. They are probably most likely to vote conservative, although their belief is of a more neo-liberal pursuasion
    I'd be all for this argument if UKIPers argued in the following manner (they do not):

    "Clearly, the EU is a giant, bureaucratic, ridiculous way of governing disparate nations and peoples. We ought to withdraw (up until this point, I am with them) and establish free trade with the rest of the world (including) Europe unilaterally."

    That's not what they say. What they say is dismantle EU protectionism and erect a new kind of UK protectionism over trade based on inane arguments regarding labour markets (really, I shall very much like to know who has knowledge of how many plumbers, electricians, computer scientists, agricultural workers the UK "needs"? if they have that kind of information, why don't we plan our economy from the top? why have markets?).
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    (Original post by ibzombie96)
    You won't find a huge number of us on a student forum!

    The Tories are in favour of fiddling with labour markets, and Labour is in favour or fiddling with all the other markets.

    This is controversial, but Douglas Carswell is the only classical liberal I know is prominent in Parliament. People scoff because he's in UKIP, the party of closed borders ("WE'RE FULL!", but I spoke to him after a speech he made at my university (not a UKIP event) and it's clear he's far removed from his party's supporters. He's in favour of immigration (though not completely free borders) and firmly believes that we live in a crony corporatist economy, and that having free markets (and perfect competition) would solve many of our problems.
    That sounds good to me.

    There are many reasons why open borders are not desirable but labour market optimisation is not one of them. People can be turned away because they pose a threat to national security (convicted terrorists). They can be turned away because they pose a threat to society (non-terrorist, convicted criminals). They can even be turned away if there is a really good chance that they might disrupt public order (potential terrorists/criminals - people with no documentation, etc).

    But they can't argue that the UK "needs" a certain number of non-governmental workers and thus any more would somehow mean unemployment. They do not know that, there is no fixed number of jobs available but rather, it varies in response to the wage rate and the competition available. The UKIPers are completely oblivious to this and whilst some of them argue for free markets, they do not seem to know what free markets are there for.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Since the Lib Dems have disappeared, I would vote Conservatives - not a big fan of Cameron though, but he's still better than Corbyn (:afraid:).
    Yeah, I did the same thing and ended up voting Tories. Lesser of 2 evils imo
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    (Original post by DarkIceCream)
    Unfortunately, the Lib Dems have squandered their Whig/Radical heritage and are now, as far as I can see, a social democratic party (which they always sort of were).

    But I would not fit with the Conservatives for a variety of reasons. One, I'm in favour of free markets and free trade, not protectionism. That includes labour markets which conservatives think ought to be centrally planned and managed ("how many nurses do 'we' need?" etc). With this attitude, (various) conservatives make alliances with some xenophobic elements which I'd find impossible to co-exist with. And lastly and more importantly, social conservatism and social liberalism are polar opposites. Not all conservatives are social conservatives but I disagree a whole lot with some traditionalist MPs who're revered among party members (Rees-Mogg?).

    Clearly, not ideal (I don't want to feel unwelcome) but sadly you're probably right.
    again, the lib dems aren't your friend here - they are essentially a 2nd labour party with a leader now (farron) who voted against gay marriage
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    (Original post by sleepysnooze)
    again, the lib dems aren't your friend here - they are essentially a 2nd labour party with a leader now (farron) who voted against gay marriage
    I didn't say they were. I said in my post (read it perhaps) that ultimately "you're probably right" and that the Conservatives is the party for most classical liberals.
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    Most classical liberals are monetarists, non-interventionist and support stable government which protects property rights and contracts, and not necessarily a democracy, although the rule of law seems a prerequisite to the maintenance of property rights.
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    Do they actually still exist ?
 
 
 
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