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nutty leftist party leader blames the floods on grouse shooting Watch

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    (Original post by Greenlaner)
    Compared to activities such as hill farming and grazing, grouse shooting has very little impact on moors and upland areas. Just go to any moorland that is primarily managed for grouse shooting and see with your own eyes how much more biodiverse they tend to be than land mainly used for grazing.
    I agree they're more biodiverse - that's because the farming lobby is far too powerful for the current government to bother even trying to reduce monoculture.
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    Natalie Bennett said the moors in Yorkshire which were maintained for grouse shooting had lost their naturally absorbent bogs, which serve as a natural drainage system.

    Moors across England are being “intensively managed” and leading to increasing levels of water running off from the moors during the heavy storms.
    She reiterated her call for a ban on grouse shooting after she said she heard about the negative environmental consequences of the practice on a visit to flood-hit communities in Yorkshire.
    Ms Bennett said it was a struggle "to find an isolated healthy patch of the blanket bog that’s the natural, highly-absorbent, (and rare) vegetation on these moors".
    I don't know whether what she says is true or not, but it doesn't sound nearly as sensational as the OP suggests.
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    Seems rather farfetched.

    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    Death to the Green party!

    Seriously, which nutcases actually vote for them?
    I voted for them :innocent:
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    In the last few years there has been a change in the way some grouse moors have been managed. Ditches have dug that mean the moors drain more quickly. There is a view that this adds to flooding. There is another view to the contrary. When the RSPB looked into this recently, it found that there was insufficient evidence either way. This isn't about biodiversity nor is it about grouse shooting per se but about one particular technique for managing grouse moors. The Bennett woman, if she is capable of understanding this, isn't capable of expressing it.
    My understanding was that a lot of those drainage ditches date back longer than just "the last few years", and were often put in to improve land for grazing (so it's not just a grouse shooting thing). Quite a few estates are now involved in blocking these ditches, and I've seen it myself near Bransdale in the North York Moors.
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...e-Bennett.html


    The winner of the award for nutter of the year so far goes to Natalie Bennett for her hypothesis that "Grouse shooting contributed to the floods".

    Most irrelevant comment of the month "“Visiting the Moor, I saw the carcass of a rabbit by the roadside, probably hit by a car, rotting undisturbed – a sign that scavengers and predators are cleared from here – an assumption backed by a metal trap on a fallen tree crossing a stream (probably meant for stoat or weasel I was told)."
    Actually the moors by me were cleared for grouse shooting. They used to be covered in heather and gorse. They now aren't. The water now runs down the hillside because there is nothing to slow it down. There are now no bogs on the moors.

    It may sound ridiculous, but when you look into it, it really isn't.

    These have been the first floods in my town in living memory. The water was over a metre higher than the last high point.

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    (Original post by abruiseonthesky)
    The Green party is kinda the lead on environmental issues.
    If you think that is true can you explain why the only Green-run council has one of the worst records in the country for recycling its rubbish?
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    (Original post by abruiseonthesky)
    I agree they're more biodiverse - that's because the farming lobby is far too powerful for the current government to bother even trying to reduce monoculture.
    If the farming lobby is powerful, then farms wouldn't be 1) getting ****ed over by supermarkets paying them peanuts 2) going out of business 3) having to pay their workers (farmers) next to nothing because of 1), 4) wouldn't be priced out by foreign competitors 5) wouldn't be throwing away off their produce because of aesthetics being demanded of them by big businesses.

    The "farming lobby" isn't your enemy.
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    (Original post by RF_PineMarten)
    My understanding was that a lot of those drainage ditches date back longer than just "the last few years", and were often put in to improve land for grazing (so it's not just a grouse shooting thing). Quite a few estates are now involved in blocking these ditches, and I've seen it myself near Bransdale in the North York Moors.
    Land drainage is nothing new.

    However, some estates have in recent years been increasing the amount of land drainage to "improve" the grouse moors whilst others have been blocking existing drains also to "improve" the grouse moors.
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    Na
    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...e-Bennett.html


    The winner of the award for nutter of the year so far goes to Natalie Bennett for her hypothesis that "Grouse shooting contributed to the floods".

    Most irrelevant comment of the month "“Visiting the Moor, I saw the carcass of a rabbit by the roadside, probably hit by a car, rotting undisturbed – a sign that scavengers and predators are cleared from here – an assumption backed by a metal trap on a fallen tree crossing a stream (probably meant for stoat or weasel I was told)."
    Although Natalie Bennet and this article are pretty ridiculous, all published science on the matter shows that the vegetation clearance and drainage that results in higher runoff and therefore probably does increase flood risk for that reason. Trees mean water retention and absorbsion. Grouse moors - not so much.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    Na

    Although Natalie Bennet and this article are pretty ridiculous, all published science on the matter shows that the vegetation clearance and drainage that results in higher runoff and therefore probably does increase flood risk for that reason. Trees mean water retention and absorbsion. Grouse moors - not so much.
    I am sorry this is nonsense.

    The peat moorland which is the habitat for grouse will not grow trees.

    The RSPB in their recent review of the evidence sat on the fence on the issue.

    If you increase drainage the peat shrinks, but you also increase the capacity of the peat to act as a sponge absorbing water, reducing the risk of flood. However to extent that capacity is exceeded, the water runs off more quickly and the run off is more focused increasing the flood risk downstream. The problem is that there are so many other factors in play that it is impossible to tell which effect of drainage is dominant.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I am sorry this is nonsense.

    The peat moorland which is the habitat for grouse will not grow trees.

    The RSPB in their recent review of the evidence sat on the fence on the issue.

    If you increase drainage the peat shrinks, but you also increase the capacity of the peat to act as a sponge absorbing water, reducing the risk of flood. However to extent that capacity is exceeded, the water runs off more quickly and the run off is more focused increasing the flood risk downstream. The problem is that there are so many other factors in play that it is impossible to tell which effect of drainage is dominant.
    Except for the fact grouse moors drain the peat bog - causing less disruption to water flow and greater runoff.

    By trees I meant vegetation in general. Grouse moor management involves burning said vegetation - which not only removes it but dries out the peat to an extent it becomes a hard surface for water to run off (not to mention releasing greenhouse gasses on the process)
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    People against grouse shooting should just go ahead and try it. It's great fun. Season's over now but just wait till the Glorious Twelfth.
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    (Original post by ibzombie96)
    People against grouse shooting should just go ahead and try it. It's great fun. Season's over now but just wait till the Glorious Twelfth.
    Yeah I'm sure I'd love it...
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    (Original post by AlwaysWatching)
    If the farming lobby is powerful, then farms wouldn't be 1) getting ****ed over by supermarkets paying them peanuts 2) going out of business 3) having to pay their workers (farmers) next to nothing because of 1), 4) wouldn't be priced out by foreign competitors 5) wouldn't be throwing away off their produce because of aesthetics being demanded of them by big businesses.

    The "farming lobby" isn't your enemy.
    No large dairy is getting ****ed over by supermarkets. The farming lobby protects the interests of large landowners not small farms.

    If it wasn't powerful there'd be no badger cull.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    No large dairy is getting ****ed over by supermarkets.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8082105.stm
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    If you think that is true can you explain why the only Green-run council has one of the worst records in the country for recycling its rubbish?
    That's just because they're incapable.
 
 
 
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