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Cameron to say face veils need to be removed for officials Watch

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    (Original post by Nununu)
    Because people are not perfect. They don't follow thier religon perfectly. Simple logic really.
    But they would claim that they are following it properly. Perhaps the ones insisting on covering their faces are not following the religion properly?

    One thing is perfectly clear - no one knows what "following Islam properly" actually means, if it means anything at all!
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    Commons sense, but do we have any left at this point ?
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    (Original post by Arkasia)
    'The choice'. Ha.
    Neither my sister nor my mum wear it. It is very much a choice.
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    Ban covering your face to be honest.
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    (Original post by sw651)
    My question is if it is a 'choice', then there shouldn't be a problem removing it should there?
    But they've chosen not to... Don't think you're getting the point.
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    Why? Faith schools are perfectly acceptable. They can have advantages.

    I was at a religious primary school and I found that perfectly fine. It meant that I had to sing hymns.

    I was not disadvantaged in any way by attending a faith school.

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    So did I and only Jewish people could attend. We should not be discrimating against people for education because of their religion.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    But they've chosen not to... Don't think you're getting the point.
    Sorry, but you have completely missed the point. It is a choice not to listen to the Quran, it is merely the illusion of choice about wearing it.

    Don't be condescending.
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    QE2 doing gods work in this thread
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    (Original post by Nununu)
    Wow. You really dont know how to read between the lines. They said the hijab is compulsory, implying they interpert the religion obliges the hijab not veil, but others may interpret the religion differently.
    When you say "read between the lines", you seem to mean, "infer something that they did not claim, that would contradict their actual statement".

    They claimed that wearing the hijab was necessary. Then they claimed that it was not. They didn't say "I consider it to be necessary, but those who think it isn't are following Islam just as well as I am".

    And yes if you choose to follow a religion then you choose to follow the rules. Although different people interpret the religion differentlly. Its really not hard to understand.
    So if you are a Muslim, there is no choice in whether you follow the rules or not.

    Say for example two judges have to follow the laws of Britain but they interpert the law differently.
    Except temporal law is worded in such a way as to remove all but minor interpretation. UK law states that you must wear a helmet on a motorbike. No judge could interpret the law to mean that a helmet is not required.
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    Face veils should be banned entirely.
    They are a security threat.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    People on here calling for a ban are the same people who cry for freedom of expression.
    Freedom of Expression and Freedom to feel safe are different things altogether
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Neither my sister nor my mum wear it. It is very much a choice.
    That's because your interpretation does not require you to wear it. For the woman who believes that Allah commands that she cover her face, there is no choice. Also for many women whose husband believes it.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Its almost like seeing peoples faces is kinda important. Whudda thunk it wasnt because white people like to beat brown people with sticks
    I know right

    I know plenty of shops and business who have installed CCTV and I were lead to believe this was for security reasons

    Now I find it's because they don't like a few muslim women
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    "So if you are a Muslim, there is no choice in whether you follow the rules or not."

    Correct. But what I believe to be the rules someone else will not. As is self evident from the fact there are many many different sects of Islam.
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    (Original post by FluffyCherry)
    And why would shops ban them anyway?
    A women has the choice to wear a niqab or burqa, and if she wants to then that's her choice! Why would it concern you if you don't see her face, huh?! This honestly has nothing to do with you or anyone else!
    As far as I know, wearing the niqab or burqa is not obligatory in Islam so when it comes to security checks and other needed situations, taking it off for facial identification is totally understandable, but other than that I don't see it as a big deal?!!!
    Because it's open to abuse and as you say, it's a cultural thing not a religious requirement - although some will claim otherwise.

    There are most definitely cases where people use the 'entitlement' to flout laws and commit crimes:

    Terrorist disguised as a woman wearing a niqab;
    Common theft;
    Identity swapping (exams, travel passes, gender etc.)
    CCTV evasion (driving offences, parking offences, tracking law breaking suspects etc.);
    Identity denial;
    Hiding contempt;

    Hoodies are used for exactly the same reasons and no-one would accept it's a gang-cultural right to wear them unfettered and unhindered.

    But more importantly, it's a symbol of segregation saying the person has no desire to accept the vast democratic majority-population view of the country they choose to live in, that they hold themselves above the customs and people of that land and even disrespects them. It also propagates the controlling and misogynist attitudes prevalent in many Muslim dominated patriarchal cultures.

    After all: if it's a cultural thing then we would all like to do things that the law does not allow but cannot; hey, that's life. If it's a religious thing, it most definitely is saying we are all kafir and devout Muslims (the ones who wear the niqab) are most decidedly not the friend of kafir.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    So did I and only Jewish people could attend. We should not be discrimating against people for education because of their religion.
    My Christian primary school was predominantly Muslim when I left.

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    (Original post by Nununu)
    "So if you are a Muslim, there is no choice in whether you follow the rules or not."

    Correct. But what I believe to be the rules someone else will not. As is self evident from the fact there are many many different sects of Islam.
    Well, obviously, you are not going to feel obliged to follow the rules of a sect that you are not a member of! Jeez!

    Also, you are aware that these sects often regard the other sects as Not True Muslims™, so their rules and interpretations are irrelevant.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Well, obviously, you are not going to feel obliged to follow the rules of a sect that you are not a member of! Jeez!

    Also, you are aware that these sects often regard the other sects as Not True Muslims™, so their rules and interpretations are irrelevant.
    Lol. Forget the fact that there are different sects, simply understand two people can look at the same verse and take two very different meanings from it. Surely you can see that to be true? *holds breath*
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    (Original post by Nununu)
    Lol. Forget the fact that there are different sects, simply understand two people can look at the same verse and take two very different meanings from it. Surely you can see that to be true? *holds breath*
    Then what is the point of a text if everyone has a different interpretation. It would become redundant
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    (Original post by FluffyCherry)
    Why would it concern you if you don't see her face, huh?!
    Facial features are important in conversation. It is very difficult to trust someone whose face you can't see.

    With someone serving me in a shop I wouldn't care, but if my doctor, accountant, or MP wouldn't show me their face I'd be inclined to try to find a different one.
 
 
 
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