British people are proud of colonialism and the British Empire, poll finds

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HucktheForde
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The British public are generally proud of their country’s role in subjecting the world to colonialism and the British Empire, according to a new poll.

At its height in 1922 the British Empire governed a fifth of the world’s population and a quarter of the world’s total land area, but its legacy divides opinion.

Common criticisms of the empire include its policies causing millions of famine deaths in British India, its running of brutal detention camps in occupied territories, and massacres of civilians by imperial troops.

The British Empire was also a dominant slave-trading power until the practice was outlawed in 1807, after which the Empire played key a role in ending the practice internationally.

The Empire’s proponents say it brought economic development to parts of the world and benefited the countries it controlled.

David Cameron has previously said the Empire should be “celebrated”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6821206.html

anyone finds this disturbing?
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the bear
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i am proud of the Empire and am desperately sad that it has been stolen from us.
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Aj12
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Take back the Aquitaine I say.
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MountKimbie
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I am proud of many things in British history but this is not one of them.
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Drummerz
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(Original post by the bear)
i am proud of the Empire and am desperately sad that it has been stolen from us.
"stolen" assumes it was rightfully yours in the first place.
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the bear
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(Original post by Drummerz)
"stolen" assumes it was rightfully yours in the first place.
yes, and your point is ?
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Ethereal World
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This is disturbing and upsetting. Why would anyone be 'proud' of colonialism? Probably the same people who want to close our borders to migrants and refugees who are seeking to move from the places that imperialism f***ed in the first place.
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TheDefiniteArticle
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1) being proud of something which happened before you were born is fundamentally irrational
2) the British Empire was ultimately a dreadful thing, but it's not something which needs to be apologised for either
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AlwaysWatching
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(Original post by HucktheForde)
The British public are generally proud of their country’s role in subjecting the world to colonialism and the British Empire, according to a new poll.

At its height in 1922 the British Empire governed a fifth of the world’s population and a quarter of the world’s total land area, but its legacy divides opinion.

Common criticisms of the empire include its policies causing millions of famine deaths in British India, its running of brutal detention camps in occupied territories, and massacres of civilians by imperial troops.

The British Empire was also a dominant slave-trading power until the practice was outlawed in 1807, after which the Empire played key a role in ending the practice internationally.

The Empire’s proponents say it brought economic development to parts of the world and benefited the countries it controlled.

David Cameron has previously said the Empire should be “celebrated”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6821206.html

anyone finds this disturbing?


Speaking as a historian, you will never find a reputable colonial historian criticizing the British Empire as a purely and inherently evil institution. There are good things to colonialism and also bad things. I have never come across a historian who has done so in four years of studying the subject at Kings College.

So no, it is not disturbing.
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the bear
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(Original post by Aj12)
Take back the Aquitaine I say.
as a modest beginning we can have Calais back merci beaucoup

:pierre:

we would never have allowed this nonsense at Calais when we were in charge

smh
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chazwomaq
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(Original post by AlwaysWatching)
Speaking as a historian, you will never find a reputable colonial historian criticizing the British Empire as a purely and inherently evil. There are good things to colonialism and also bad things. I have never come across a historian who has done so in four years of studying the subject.

So no, it is not disturbing.
Hear hear. The only disturbing thing is how quickly people rush to simplistic categorical judgments - the British Empire / Liberals / the religious / immigrants / whatever must be classified as "good" or "bad".
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Drummerz
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(Original post by the bear)
yes, and your point is ?
Point is many of the countries in the "british empire" were independent countries, it was never stolen from you, they were just never yours to have in the first place
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Puddles the Monkey
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I wonder what the wording of the poll was :holmes: I feel that could have had a big impact on how people chose to respond.
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AlwaysWatching
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(Original post by chazwomaq)
Hear hear. The only disturbing thing is how quickly people rush to simplistic categorical judgments - the British Empire / Liberals / the religious / immigrants / whatever must be classified as "good" or "bad".
I usually find the most critical people of colonialism (European, not just British) are usually the most ignorant people on the subject. People need to read around the subject before casting a judgement.

Clearly there were bad things, but also clearly there are good things.

I always ask them to imagine a world without colonialism before they cast a judgement. I always find it incredibly surprising how people somehow believe that without European empires, somehow the world would be a peaceful and bountiful utopia.
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the bear
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(Original post by Drummerz)
Point is many of the countries in the "british empire" were independent countries, it was never stolen from you, they were just never yours to have in the first place
:nopity:

since we were forced out most of these countries have ended up as corrupt basket cases.
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Observatory
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(Original post by HucktheForde)
Common criticisms of the empire include its policies causing millions of famine deaths in British India, its running of brutal detention camps in occupied territories, and massacres of civilians by imperial troops.

The British Empire was also a dominant slave-trading power until the practice was outlawed in 1807, after which the Empire played key a role in ending the practice internationally.

The Empire’s proponents say it brought economic development to parts of the world and benefited the countries it controlled.
Turning these upside-down would make more sense. The British Empire reduced the prevalence of famine in its territories (although not to zero overnight) and reduced state violence in its territories, mostly by suppressing wars between different native factions. Its centralised development policies on the other hand were a complete failure, resembling state socialism, and today's equally ineffective development aid bureaucracy has substantial continuity with this colonial system. Slavery was a tangential issue in that slaves were not sourced from colonies; the slave trade did not depend on and would have been just as profitable without empire. The British Empire specifically provided destinations for slaves in the first two centuries and eliminated sources of slaves in the final two centuries.
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Observatory
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(Original post by EtherealNymph22)
This is disturbing and upsetting. Why would anyone be 'proud' of colonialism? Probably the same people who want to close our borders to migrants and refugees who are seeking to move from the places that imperialism f***ed in the first place.
Isn't that logic a little confused? If British government is harmful to non-Britons, why would non-Britons want to come here for our government? Mass immigration looks a lot like in-sourcing empire.
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AlwaysWatching
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(Original post by Drummerz)
Point is many of the countries in the "british empire" were independent countries, it was never stolen from you, they were just never yours to have in the first place
No they weren't. They were mostly tribes, duchy's and kingdoms. Not "countries". They weren't some sort of proletarian paradise that was invaded by the British. So metaphorically speaking, it wasn't "their" country (the people) either. Colonised areas were neither a country, or a democracy. They were neither equal or humane societies before colonisation.

For the most part, the only change 90% of the colonised people experienced in their lives was the colour of skin of the taxman.
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domonict
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most of the "countries" in the empire were created by the British by taking over small fiefdoms and tribal areas.
The modern countries now ( often renamed) follow the rough area of a colonial "patch" but nothing like the original areas before colonialism.

Don't forget that African/Indian tribal leaders were often harsher than the new rulers.

some good came of the Empire, some bad.
it's hard to judge with modern attitudes what happened 100-200 years ago.
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Ethereal World
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(Original post by Observatory)
Isn't that logic a little confused? If British government is harmful to non-Britons, why would non-Britons want to come here for our government? Mass immigration looks a lot like in-sourcing empire.
Do you think the primary reason people want to come here is our government?!! Also modern politics is a lot different to those times, considering we don't use 'colonies' in the same way we did previously.
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