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Any muslims here also stopped believing in God? Watch

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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    No it isn't, there is no evidence whatsoever for it. Err, this is a public forum and we're in the UK where free speech is allowed.

    False yet again.
    Yes it is, you need evidence to say it's God's words (?)
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    (Original post by Leukocyte)
    Yes it is,
    No it isn't.

    you need evidence to say it's God's words (?)
    Exactly, if you're saying it's God's word then you need evidence to prove that, and you have not provided any.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Exactly, if you're saying it's God's word then you need evidence to prove that, and you have not provided any.
    I can't believe that you think the Qur'aan is not God's words. Oh hang on, maybe bc you're just being highly ignorant like you always are + have been. It was revealed through the Angel Gabriel to Muhammed SAW. You don't believe that also?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Here are 12 documented textual variants of Surah 2 verse 106 in the Quran. Keep in mind this is one single verse.

    http://i.imgur.com/ipyK25X.png

    Even this Islamic site says slight errors and additions have occurred

    http://submission.org/verify_preserv...ing_Quran.html



    Circular reasoning. And you are yet to show me how you know it hasn't deviated from the original.
    I don't trust your source - the 'Islamic' website is from the followers of Rashad Khalifa - a guy who claimed to be a messenger and started removing verses from the Quran in order for it to fit his 'mathmatical code', so his works and anything from his followers I do not trust whatsoever. I cannot verify the image either.
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    (Original post by Leukocyte)
    I can't believe that you think the Qur'aan is not God's words. Oh hang on, maybe bc you're just being highly ignorant like you always are + have been.
    Resorting to insults just shows you have no valid argument to make. And why would you expect a non-Muslim to believe the Qur'an is God's word? If anything that shows you're ignorant about people and their respective beliefs...

    It was revealed through the Angel Gabriel to Muhammed SAW. You don't believe that also?
    And yet you have no evidence for this statement whatsoever. Why don't we start from the beginning. Can you prove to me that angels exist?
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    Mohammed did do miracles, he split the moon in half. I think you need to do some more research as you seem to lack quite a bit of knowledge on islam.
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    There's an ex-Muslim society in the religion section
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I don't trust your source - the 'Islamic' website is from the followers of Rashad Khalifa - a guy who claimed to be a messenger and started removing verses from the Quran in order for it to fit his 'mathmatical code', so his works and anything from his followers I do not trust whatsoever. I cannot verify the image either.
    Well the variations are there to see. And it is also plainly obvious that all Qur'ans are not the same because you're forgetting that they've been translated into different languages and translation is, as you know, impossible to perfectly preserve across languages, giving variations right there.

    But enough about that point, why don't we get the actual heart of the issue and address what importance a hypothetically homogeneous Qur'an would have. It does not prove divinity any more than Shakespeare's plays not changing do.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I don't trust your source - the 'Islamic' website is from the followers of Rashad Khalifa - a guy who claimed to be a messenger and started removing verses from the Quran in order for it to fit his 'mathmatical code', so his works and anything from his followers I do not trust whatsoever. I cannot verify the image either.
    And like I already asked, can you please provide your evidence that the Qur'an has never changed.
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    I don't trust your source - the 'Islamic' website is from the followers of Rashad Khalifa - a guy who claimed to be a messenger and started removing verses from the Quran in order for it to fit his 'mathmatical code', so his works and anything from his followers I do not trust whatsoever. I cannot verify the image either.
    Here is a further compilation of the many variants with all sources listed.

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamo...n_variants.htm
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    we have the illusion that the Universe was fine-tuned just for us, while in reality we are just one infinitesimal, next to negligible detail of it

    if the Universe were different, most likely we wouldn't even exist

    or we could exist as completely different beings : but we would still believe that the Universe was perfectly and harmoniously fine-tuned (just for us) ... and we would still enthuse about the "perfect harmony" of the design

    personally, I could easily come up with many ideas for the improvement both of the Universe and of mankind
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    (Original post by sabana)
    Mohammed did do miracles, he split the moon in half.
    well, if you believe that, then you can believe most anything
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    After studying Islam, it just seems like a version of Christianity and Judaism (though I don't find either of those better, atleast both Moses and Jesus could perform miracles), where as Islam was written by a man in a cave, what was Muhammeds miracles? In my honest opinion all Islam seems like to me is Arab imprelism, arab clothing, arab names, arab way of life is the way Islam is founded on, many people want to show themselves as real muslim so therefore turn to the Arab lifestyle, it is interchanged, I don't believe in Allah anymore either, I've come to the conclusion to be a good person with morals you just need to be born and bred with them, many of my friends were muslim who turned ex muslim, at first I tried to keep my distance from them but in the end they turned out to be better peolpe then my muslim friends.
    Well done for seeing the light!

    (Original post by sabana)
    Mohammed did do miracles, he split the moon in half.
    He must have been very good with the duct tape afterwards as it looks pretty solid today!
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Mary, resorting to insults just shows you have no valid argument to make. And why would you expect a non-Muslim to believe the Qur'an is God's word? If anything that shows you're ignorant about people and their respective beliefs...
    And yet you have no evidence for this statement whatsoever. Why don't we start from the beginning. Can you prove to me that angels exist?
    Was it necessary to mention my name? Or was this some sort of defense? There is a reason I changed my username on this account but if you do carry on, you'll be reported.
    I'm not insulting, I'm simply just stating how ignorant you are in every thread, having the misconception of yourself that you're always correct, sorry but frankly you're not. Why don't you believe it isn't? Evidence isn't a reason.

    There wasn't no beginning but if you insist. If you do not believe that they exist (which I believe you don't obviously) then me trying to "prove" is simply pointless (?)
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    (Original post by Leukocyte)
    Was it necessary to mention my name? Or was this some sort of defense? There is a reason I changed my username on this account but if you do carry on, you'll be reported.
    You mean, like you making dupe accounts when your original one was banned? I really don't think you're in any position to be reporting.

    I'm not insulting, I'm simply just stating how ignorant you are in every thread, having the misconception of yourself that you're always correct, sorry but frankly you're not. Why don't you believe it isn't? Evidence isn't a reason.
    You are insulting. As I've already explained many times on here, crying "ignorant" is simply a defence mechanism to try and discredit the poster. But until you actually highlight this apparent ignorance then it is a load of hot air.

    Now, stop waffling and address the points raised. Where is your evidence that the Qur'an is the word of God?

    There wasn't no beginning but if you insist. If you do not believe that they exist (which I believe you don't obviously) then me trying to "prove" is simply pointless (?)
    So in short, you have no evidence.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Well the variations are there to see. And it is also plainly obvious that all Qur'ans are not the same because you're forgetting that they've been translated into different languages and translation is, as you know, impossible to perfectly preserve across languages, giving variations right there.

    But enough about that point, why don't we get the actual heart of the issue and address what importance a hypothetically homogeneous Qur'an would have. It does not prove divinity any more than Shakespeare's plays not changing do.
    That is true as when Arabic is translated in English for example there are many words in Arabic which do not have a direct translation per say. I assume the same for all other languages. However the original Arabic text remains the same. When people study the Qu'ran, the vast majority of people memorise the chapters in Arabic however from my understanding most have no idea at what it actually means, i.e think of it as people how 'memorise' the english language, i.e. they can read and listen but can't speak and actually understand by giving definitions and whatnot. Sounds really really stupid but that is the reality :facepalm:lmao .
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    (Original post by Leukocyte)
    I can't believe that you think the Qur'aan is not God's words.
    about 80% of humanity does not believe that the Quran is God's words, so actually we don't feel lonely

    personally, I have read the Quran (in English and in French) and have studied some Arabic, so as to understand at least some basic issues about the various Arabic readings (qira'at) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qira'at

    there are 14 slightly different texts (riwaya) of the Quran that Muslims consider as "authentic", 6 more considered as slightly less "authentic" and many more exist, but have been "rejected" : the differences usually are quite small and insignificant, but some do have importance (a singular for a plural, a masculine instead of a feminine, an active verb instead of passive etc etc)

    I have found absolutely no reason why we should believe that the Quran comes from God
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    (Original post by captainslow69)
    That is true as when Arabic is translated in English for example there are many words in Arabic which do not have a direct translation per say. I assume the same for all other languages. However the original Arabic text remains the same.
    Really, do you have the original Qur'an in your possession?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    You mean, like you making dupe accounts when your original one was banned? I really don't think you're in any position to be reporting.
    You are insulting. As I've already explained many times on here, crying "ignorant" is simply a defence mechanism to try and discredit the poster. But until you actually highlight this apparent ignorance then it is a load of hot air.
    Now, stop waffling and address the points raised. Where is your evidence that the Qur'an is the word of God?
    So in short, you have no evidence.
    Fyi don't jump to conclusions, the CT have dealt with me which is why I had to change my posting style bc before it was 'offensive' to other members. So you can simply, get off your high horse with trying your best to intimidate me, it ain't working.

    Sorry I ain't mariachi to waffle. Thanks.

    Oh wait, yo still haven't answered my question?
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    (Original post by Anonymous)
    But was it by chance?
    Or was it by an intelligent being that had the intention of doing this?
    Even if your premise is true, why do you make the HUGE leap to believe any of the world's religions? Doesn't a bit of thought render them all absurdly unrealistic and implausible?

    Future generations will look back at our contemporary religions as we view those tribes who worshipped the sun and thought it went round the earth.
 
 
 
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