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did hitler really kill 11 million people? Watch

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    I don't know how many died in total due to the Nazis' regime, however it is difficult to comprehend the scale of the concentration camps. In Auschwitz when you see the piles of shoes, hair, peoples belongings and learn that this is just a tiny fraction it is really difficult to take in. They tried to destroy evidence of what they were doing before the Allied forces reached the camps - I guess this shows they knew what they were doing was wrong.

    The general population would have been aware of the persecution going on, but not necessarily aware of the outcome of this - and even if they were would not have been in a position to do very much about it. For example they recycled everything and it is horrendous thinking they used peoples hair in textiles, but I would be surprised if the end buyer knew this as I can't imagine they would buy it if they did.
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    that fgure is one of a number i've seen 6million at the low end of estimate the high end estimates at 20-30milllion
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I'm going to challenge this.

    First of all, let's start with the 6 million jews.

    There used to be a plaque at Auschwitz recording 4 million deaths in that camp. It was replaced in 1990 with a new plaque recording 1.5 million deaths. If the six million number included the 4 million at Auchwitz then if the number of deaths at Auchwitz is reduced by 2.5 million then the total number of deaths must have been reduced to 3.5 million.

    Now, let's look at the others. If 11 million were killed and six million were jews then there should be 5 million others. If I look at your list (Jehovah’s These dudes I know, homosexuals, disabled people, and Roma) I find:

    There were about 1400 JW killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005394

    There were about no more than 15'000 homosexuals killed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persec...ntration_camps

    There were possibly as many as 220,000 Roma killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005219

    There were perhaps as many as 200,000 handicapped people killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/art...uleId=10007683

    That tots up to 436,400 people, not 5 million.

    Your calculation seems legit, but there are many groups missing from your list.

    For example, there were many people imprisoned and killed because of their beliefs that in some way didn't fit into Hitler's idea of a new world - there were those
    politically motivated (communists, former political leaders and later resistance activists)
    motivated by religion (Lutheran and Catholic pastors who spoke up against Hitler)
    in general many intellectuals and artists who stood up to the Nazis in public
    ethnic groups, not only Jews and Roma, but also Poles and Serbs
    and of course, a considerable number of prisoners of war

    I hope my answer has shown you that you can't simply add up the groups, it won't work that way. If you want more information about concentration camps, you can ask me (in German schools everything is explained to the last detail) or look up on wikipedia for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camps
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I'm going to challenge this.

    First of all, let's start with the 6 million jews.

    There used to be a plaque at Auschwitz recording 4 million deaths in that camp. It was replaced in 1990 with a new plaque recording 1.5 million deaths. If the six million number included the 4 million at Auchwitz then if the number of deaths at Auchwitz is reduced by 2.5 million then the total number of deaths must have been reduced to 3.5 million.

    Now, let's look at the others. If 11 million were killed and six million were jews then there should be 5 million others. If I look at your list (Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, disabled people, and Roma) I find:

    There were about 1400 JW killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005394

    There were about no more than 15'000 homosexuals killed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persec...ntration_camps

    There were possibly as many as 220,000 Roma killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005219

    There were perhaps as many as 200,000 handicapped people killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/art...uleId=10007683

    That tots up to 436,400 people, not 5 million.
    Awkay well you might be right, I just copied what the source said, those are not my statistics. But also consider that there were more death camps and a lot of people died on their way there or were killed before their way to the camp. And btw, Nazis didn't just kill Jews, but also all Polish people or anyone really who didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes as Hitler wanted to pursue Aryan race so I think 11 million people were the statistics of deaths from the start to the end of Holocaust.
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    You could argue he was responsible for over 60 million deaths (everyone who died in ww2)
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    Stalin killed 65 million of his own people. Just saying.
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    (Original post by Mizzy.Hyde)
    Awkay well you might be right, I just copied what the source said, those are not my statistics. But also consider that there were more death camps and a lot of people died on their way there or were killed before their way to the camp. And btw, Nazis didn't just kill Jews, but also all Polish people or anyone really who didn't have blonde hair and blue eyes as Hitler wanted to pursue Aryan race so I think 11 million people were the statistics of deaths from the start to the end of Holocaust.
    BS. My wife is Polish. Her grandparents lived under Nazi occupation. They actually liked it. The Poles weren't treated badly (unless they were Jewish obviously) In fact, if you speak to most elderly Poles they will tell you that they had it far worse under the Soviets than they did under the Nazis.

    BS also that the Nazis killed anybody who didn't have blond eyes and blue hair. That's nonsense.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    BS. My wife is Polish. Her grandparents lived under Nazi occupation. They actually liked it. The Poles weren't treated badly (unless they were Jewish obviously) In fact, if you speak to most elderly Poles they will tell you that they had it far worse under the Soviets than they did under the Nazis.

    BS also that the Nazis killed anybody who didn't have blond eyes and blue hair. That's nonsense.
    Probably does depend what parts of Poland and whether rural or city.

    The Poles were treated as a cheap workforce, expected to work long hours for little return - working to sustain Germany. It was not the Jewish who suffered - amongst other groups they attempted to destroy the Polish intellegentsia and wished to crush any free thought. They closed schools and universities, destroyed monuments and shut museums etc. to get rid of Polish culture.
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    (Original post by TheRabbit)
    Probably does depend what parts of Poland and whether rural or city.

    The Poles were treated as a cheap workforce, expected to work long hours for little return - working to sustain Germany. It was not the Jewish who suffered - amongst other groups they attempted to destroy the Polish intellegentsia and wished to crush any free thought. They closed schools and universities, destroyed monuments and shut museums etc. to get rid of Polish culture.
    Actually, it was the Soviets that sought to destroy the Polish intelligencia and officer class.The Katyn massacre is the most well known event and was a Soviet atrocity, not a Nazi one. Both during and after WWII the Soviets sent hundreds of thousands of Poles (intelligencia and the "politically difficult") to Siberian gulags.

    The Nazis did not shut schools and universities in Poland or try to destroy Polish culture (which is Germanic in nature anyway). The Soviets however were guilty of all these things.

    Poles under German occupation in the west were infinitely better off than those that were under Soviet occupation in the east. And if you speak to most elderly Poles who initially lived under German occupation they will tell you that they were bloody sorry to see them leave and get replaced by the Soviet Army later in the war.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You could argue he was responsible for over 60 million deaths (everyone who died in ww2)
    Only if you lay the blame for WWII entirely ón him.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Only if you lay the blame for WWII entirely ón him.
    the united states holocaust museum says hitler regime killed 5-6 million jews and millions of others, they also said that in total including prisoners of war and cillivan deaths he was responisble for 19.3 million deaths, i think to blame him for the 60 million that died is unfair
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I'm going to challenge this.

    First of all, let's start with the 6 million jews.

    There used to be a plaque at Auschwitz recording 4 million deaths in that camp. It was replaced in 1990 with a new plaque recording 1.5 million deaths. If the six million number included the 4 million at Auchwitz then if the number of deaths at Auchwitz is reduced by 2.5 million then the total number of deaths must have been reduced to 3.5 million.
    Well, for a start the plaque never 4 million Jews, just 4 million people. More importantly, studies of the Holocaust never took the 4 million number seriously in their estimates.

    Now, let's look at the others. If 11 million were killed and six million were jews then there should be 5 million others. If I look at your list (Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, disabled people, and Roma) I find:

    There were about 1400 JW killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005394

    There were about no more than 15'000 homosexuals killed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persec...ntration_camps

    There were possibly as many as 220,000 Roma killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article....uleId=10005219

    There were perhaps as many as 200,000 handicapped people killed
    http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/art...uleId=10007683

    That tots up to 436,400 people, not 5 million.
    See also Poles, Soviets and other Slavic groups.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Well, for a start the plaque never 4 million Jews, just 4 million people. More importantly, studies of the Holocaust never took the 4 million number seriously in their estimates.



    See also Poles, Soviets and other Slavic groups.
    the international redcross say that 300,000 persons not all jews were killed by nazi regime in the camps so it must have been a lot less than 11 million
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    (Original post by erika foster)
    the international redcross say that 300,000 persons not all jews were killed by nazi regime in the camps so it must have been a lot less than 11 million
    The Red Cross did no such thing, they never gave an estimate of deaths.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    The Red Cross did no such thing, they never gave an estimate of deaths.
    your wrong type into the internet red cross holocaust and you will see a document with a tally of the deaths in the camps and it said and i quote that 271,000 persons not all those were jews were killed due to the third reich
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    (Original post by erika foster)
    your wrong type into the internet red cross holocaust and you will see a document with a tally of the deaths in the camps and it said and i quote that 271,000 persons not all those were jews were killed due to the third reich
    If you're talking about the document I think you are, i.e. this, those are figures for registered deaths at some concentration camps (far from all of them), not mass exterminations at death camps (Auschwitz and Majdanek had both, before you bring that up). You'll notice there's no Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno or Belzec on that list. Nor is it the case that all or even most Jews were killed in the death camps - millions were killed by the Einsatzgruppen.
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    (Original post by jamestg)
    This is why the Holocaust needs to be rooted into education

    The Germans did not believe the final solution was a good thing, the vast majority didn't know what was happening.
    Actually many if not most of them probably did. Sure. they didn't know all the details - they probably were unaware that the plan was to eradicate all the Jews, for example - but a lot of people knew what was going on; as the huge technical and bureaucratic operation the Holocaust was it really couldn't be kept that secret.

    The Final Solution was agreed on in secret, without Hitler. There is some debate whether even Hitler actually requested the genocide.
    Er, sort of. It's debated whether and to what extent the momentum and motivation behind the escalation to genocide came from Hitler, but Hitler's knowledge and approval of it is not seriously debated.
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    Depressing thread. People who deny the Holocaust or the number of victims do not deserve this kind of attention.

    (Original post by Howard)
    snip
    The Poles (along with all other Slavic peoples) were the next target for genocide after the Jews were gone. You say older Poles liked life under Hitler (which is of course utter rubbish), but even if it were true, they should be thankful he lost the war. FYI the Nazi's did close Polish universities, they did kill or replace Polish university staff and they did try to stamp out Polish culture and national identity.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Actually, it was the Soviets that sought to destroy the Polish intelligencia and officer class.The Katyn massacre is the most well known event and was a Soviet atrocity, not a Nazi one. Both during and after WWII the Soviets sent hundreds of thousands of Poles (intelligencia and the "politically difficult") to Siberian gulags.

    The Nazis did not shut schools and universities in Poland or try to destroy Polish culture (which is Germanic in nature anyway). The Soviets however were guilty of all these things.

    Poles under German occupation in the west were infinitely better off than those that were under Soviet occupation in the east. And if you speak to most elderly Poles who initially lived under German occupation they will tell you that they were bloody sorry to see them leave and get replaced by the Soviet Army later in the war.
    Sorry but I don't think your information is quite right. I understand you have a Polish wife but I am not just taking this from the internet, I have recently travelled through Poland and while not Polish myself I also have Polish friends who have grandparents of the right age to have lived through the Nazis and Soviets.

    Katyn is a well known Soviet massacre which they tried to cover up and I am aware of this, and this did include Polish intelligentsia along with soldiers, however the Nazi's also sought to destroy Polish culture and 'Germanify' people. They only allowed children to have basic schooling to prevent the rise of new leaders amongst the Poles. (Part of the resistance movement was underground schooling, it was not purely military in nature).

    The Soviets may have been worse and had a far longer regime, but this does not mean the Nazi's were goodies! They wished to cleanse Poland of the Poles so they could have the land for themselves to settle.
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    (Original post by TheRabbit)
    Sorry but I don't think your information is quite right. I understand you have a Polish wife but I am not just taking this from the internet, I have recently travelled through Poland and while not Polish myself I also have Polish friends who have grandparents of the right age to have lived through the Nazis and Soviets.

    Katyn is a well known Soviet massacre which they tried to cover up and I am aware of this, and this did include Polish intelligentsia along with soldiers, however the Nazi's also sought to destroy Polish culture and 'Germanify' people. They only allowed children to have basic schooling to prevent the rise of new leaders amongst the Poles. (Part of the resistance movement was underground schooling, it was not purely military in nature).

    The Soviets may have been worse and had a far longer regime, but this does not mean the Nazi's were goodies! They wished to cleanse Poland of the Poles so they could have the land for themselves to settle.
    Not suggesting that the Nazis were the good guys but merely sharing with you the words of elderly people that I know who lived under both regimes. They all preferred the Nazis.

    I've been to Poland dozens of times. I will acknowledge that that doesn't qualify me as an expert on the matter but first hand sources add some weight to my argument.
 
 
 
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