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Medicine - Oxford or Cambridge

Hi, I'm thinking of applying for medicine 2008 at either oxford or cambridge... but I really can't make my mind up! i know it's up to me in the end but if you could give me some advice it'll be helpful. these are the factors I've considered so far:

- location: I don't want to be too far from home and ox is definitely better for that (40 mins, directly by the oxford tube) than cam (~2 hours).

- city: i like the oxford city much better than cambridge because it's bigger, more things to do, better vibe, not just a uni town. i'm worried that i'll get bored after a few years at cambridge.

- BMAT: not sure which one's better really. I'm not confident AT ALL on the bmat so maybe it's better to apply to cambridge because the majority of applicants would get interviews, but then i got pretty strong GCSE grades (10A*) so maybe ox's selection system would be to my advantage?

- course: i really like the fact that at cambridge you can have a whole range of choice for your 3rd year, whereas at ox i think you're limited to the medical sciences BA.

- competition: cambridge's med course is bigger so maybe it'll be slightly less competitive (probably untrue though). cambridge apparently has a lower applicants :tongue:

lace ratio (~5 applicants per place) than oxford (~7 applicants per place?) but i know you can't really trust statistics.

either way, if i manage to get in i would like to transfer to london for clinicals.

any help would be muchly appreciated!

Reply 1

Elles

17

nucleophile

any help would be muchly appreciated!

You sound pretty clued up already! I must admit I was half expecting a post just repeating the title with no evidence of any research/independent thought so far. :redface:

All the points you've made are valid ones though... so not really sure how we can help - it depends on the weight you want to attach to each of them?

I'm in my 4th year at Oxford - so if you have any questions about the course here I can try my best. To just address one thing you might be interested in:

- course: i really like the fact that at cambridge you can have a whole range of choice for your 3rd year, whereas at ox i think you're limited to the medical sciences BA.

True, the 3rd year at Oxford is limited to 'Medical Sciences' - but there might be more options than you realise... as well as the Option you pick (e.g. Neuroscience) there's a Research Project component which can be on pretty much anything (including lots of History of Medicine type things) and Extended essay which again is quite flexible. Or you can replace the essay with an Experimental Psychology Paper. You can also do any of the science 'Supplementary Subjects' (which can sway it if you're borderline on a class boundary) e.g. History and Philosophy or Science, Pharmaceutical Chemistry off the top of my head.

Some of the Cambridge options sound quite fun (I might have liked to do History for a year!) but worth finding out how many people actually feel able to/ultimately decide to do things completely outside of natural sciences? Helen or Steve on here might have some idea.

Hope this might help!

Reply 2

-42-

1

Heya Nucleophile,

I'm in pretty much the same boat as you. I think I'll probably apply to either Oxford or Cambridge for Medicine but I'm not sure which...Do you know how many people switch for their clinicals Elles and how easy it is to? (Heh, I'm sure you get quite a bit of stick if you do!).

Oxford is close to me also, about 40mins by bus, but that has both it's pro's and con's.

Oh and also whilst it's true that Cambridge has a fair few more places, it also has more applicants so I think chances are pretty even. I get the impression you have to be more clued up on your sciences to get in at Cambridge as they grill you on science in whole dedicated interview about it don't they?

Hmm, decisions, decisions! Any Oxford or Cambridge medics who could sell their course would be most appreciated!

Cheers,

--42

Reply 3

Huw Davies

11

You can also do any of the science 'Supplementary Subjects' (which can sway it if you're borderline on a class boundary) e.g. History and Philosophy or Science, Pharmaceutical Chemistry off the top of my head.

These are the only ones at the moment.

You can switch to any finals you like if they'll take you, but it's usually an extra year which you pay for at full whack.

Reply 4

Elles

17

-42-

Do you know how many people switch for their clinicals Elles and how easy it is to? (Heh, I'm sure you get quite a bit of stick if you do!).

Not sure on exact numbers, to be honest. But anecdotal impression from the Oxford side - if you want to switch you're highly likely to get into your first choice, if you want to stay and you've passed all the preclinical exams first time round you're highly likely to be able to.
The vast majority of people I know wanted to stay at Oxford (the clinical school came off very well at the open day, comparatively....) but a few chose to go to London for various reasons and a few didn't get back into Oxford as their first choice.

In terms of numbers:
Oxford = preclinical ~150 --> clinical ~ 150 again (but effectively - 30 as GEMers merge)
Cambridge = preclinical ~280 --> clinical ~ 150 (don't think their GEPers merge)

So I suspect more people have to transfer at Cambridge, but then there's more inter-Oxbridge movement towards Oxford and both take people from London too - so it's not definite!

Reply 5

nucleophile

OP

thanks for the reply. i know, i've considered almost everything but i'm still not too sure. :frown:

do you think the fact that oxford takes in less students than cambridge means anything at all, or the fact that the applications :tongue:

lace ratio is higher for oxford? or are those things really irrelevant?

and what do you think about the bmat/gcse thing? is it difficult to be in the top 60% of applicants in the bmat?

thanks!

Reply 6

Beenybabe

well a girl at my school got rejected without interview from oxford this year with 12A*s but a poor bmat and according to her feedback a poor reference.

She also happened to apply to the college that received the most applications this year (hertford)

make of that what you will

Reply 7

MarkM89

I don't want to worry you too much, but if you want to stand a good chance of getting into Oxbridge you really do need to try and nail the BMAT.

That isn't to say you must fret about revising and such - a lot of the stuff cannot be revised, but you can get practice papers to get a feel for the style of questions.

The BMAT is a key part of the application, but remember it is just one part of that whole application process. Try not to get too worried about it.

Reply 8

$Avatar for sTe\/o$

sTe\/o

16

nucleophile

Hi, I'm thinking of applying for medicine 2008 at either oxford or cambridge... but I really can't make my mind up! i know it's up to me in the end but if you could give me some advice it'll be helpful. these are the factors I've considered so far:

- location: I don't want to be too far from home and ox is definitely better for that (40 mins, directly by the oxford tube) than cam (~2 hours).

- city: i like the oxford city much better than cambridge because it's bigger, more things to do, better vibe, not just a uni town. i'm worried that i'll get bored after a few years at cambridge.

- BMAT: not sure which one's better really. I'm not confident AT ALL on the bmat so maybe it's better to apply to cambridge because the majority of applicants would get interviews, but then i got pretty strong GCSE grades (10A*) so maybe ox's selection system would be to my advantage?

- course: i really like the fact that at cambridge you can have a whole range of choice for your 3rd year, whereas at ox i think you're limited to the medical sciences BA.

- competition: cambridge's med course is bigger so maybe it'll be slightly less competitive (probably untrue though). cambridge apparently has a lower applicants :tongue:

lace ratio (~5 applicants per place) than oxford (~7 applicants per place?) but i know you can't really trust statistics.

either way, if i manage to get in i would like to transfer to london for clinicals.

any help would be muchly appreciated!

Hey nucleophile, I did my preclinical at Cambridge and am now at Oxford for clinical school. I appreciate how hard a choice this is for you, as I was torn when I applied for preclinical. It sounds to me like you'll be much happier at Oxford. That said, I do think that in terms of the preclinical course Cambridge has a slight edge, and indeed if you want to be a surgeon you might consider it a big edge. The anatomy course is a LOT more detailed and is taught in a very clinically relevant way. The main advantage of going to Oxford in my view is if Oxford appeals to you more as a city (which is understandable - there's definitely more going on), and also if you would like to go to Oxford clinical school it will be easier if you start here because outsiders have to reach a higher standard to gain entry (but not ridiculously high!). If you want to go to London then it won't make any difference where you do your preclinical.

Competition-wise, Oxford and Cambridge are neck and neck, so I wouldn't even factor that into the equation. Oxford does have a higher applicants :tongue:

lace ratio, but I'm sure you can appreciate this is only part of the picture, as what really counts is the quality of the applicants. I know in my fairly normal college at Cambridge that one medic had all A*s at GCSE and the rest had virtually all A*s (one of them took 14 GCSEs!), which I imagine is as good as any Oxford college. At the end of the day, you can second-guess the system all you want, but I think they are both looking for very similar things and dealing with a very similar level of competition. Furthermore, both Oxford and Cambridge place a lot of emphasis on the BMAT nowadays - I know this for a fact because I have talked to an admissions tutor in my Cambridge college specifically about this, and I have seen what Oxford medical school have published regarding their admissions filtering process.

Regarding choices in the third year, it's true that Cambridge gives you a lot more choice outside of medicine, whereas within the medical sciences I'd say you will get pretty much the same amount of choice in Oxford and Cambridge. Actually, the Cambridge system is slightly more flexible, because you filter into the final year of Natural Sciences, which is obviously a much larger course with more options than the Final Honours School in Medical Sciences - but you do end up with the same broad areas to choose from. There is absolutely nothing to stop you from studying something completely different in the third year at Cambridge, and there are no quotas for this, BUT you will have to accept that you won't be taking your scientific training to the final stage - ie. reading papers and carrying out a research project. This could hinder you later on in your clinical career (and certainy an academic one) when you want to do some research. I would guestimate that 90-95% of Cambridge medics study a medical subject in the third year, with other common options being Sociopolitical Sciences (because it's a doss... and in my college, at least, a number of bad medics have got 1sts in SPS), Law, Engineering (especially at Emmanuel, where there is a supervisor who pushes it to the medics) and Maths (lots of medics with Further Maths A-level at Cambridge!). My roomate did Italian Part II and managed to get a 1st in that, but he was a bit of a genius all round.

Hope that has helped at all. In summary:

•

If you like the sound of Oxford, go for Oxford and be happy.

•

If you want to be a surgeon, seriously consider Cambridge over Oxford. (Going to Oxford clearly won't rule this out - far from it - but you will appreciate the excellent anatomy teaching at Cambridge.

P.S. You said you would get bored after a few years at Cambridge... you do realise you don't have to stay for longer than that??

Reply 9

$Avatar for sTe\/o$

sTe\/o

16

nucleophile

thanks for the reply. i know, i've considered almost everything but i'm still not too sure. :frown:

do you think the fact that oxford takes in less students than cambridge means anything at all, or the fact that the applications :tongue:

lace ratio is higher for oxford? or are those things really irrelevant?

In my opinion: irrelevant.

nucleophile

and what do you think about the bmat/gcse thing? is it difficult to be in the top 60% of applicants in the bmat?

Hard to say. Remember that it is the top 60% of applicants, not successful candidates, and not everyone applying is going to be a genius (phew :smile:

). As long as you can think logically and quickly under pressure you should be fine. You also need to remember your GCSE science, but a couple of hours of revision can solve that if you're concerned! I remember finding the predecessor to the BMAT a very pressurised exam, and when I sat a mock paper at home I didn't finish it! But when I sat the real paper I knew I had to work quickly and I got a high mark (don't know how high exactly, as they only used to tell us whether we were in the top 20%). So the lesson is: sit a mock paper!

Reply 10

nucleophile

OP

sTe\/o, thank you SO MUCH for your detailed reply - it was a huge help. I'm of course bound to change mind later on, but at the moment i'm not really fond on becoming a surgeon - from my (somewhat limited) research & work experience etc, I would much rather train in medicine, anaesthesia etc. so that factor probably wouldn't come in for me. :smile:

hmm, I guess that oxford really does seem to be better for me. And i guess it's rather pointless trying to guess which one is less competitive, because they're both just as competitive and if you're good enough to get into one you'll probably be good enough for the other...

if anyone else has any input it'd be very helpful. but thanks for the help so far!

Reply 11

Quistis

Sorry to hijack this thread, but speaking of transferring for clinicals: is getting into Cambridge easier than getting back into Oxford? I very cleverly failed part of my First BM and so am aware I might not get into Oxford like I'd always hoped, but the more I think about that the more I realise a fresh start would probably be for the best anyway. I don't much like the thought of living in London, so Cambridge seems like the natural choice (though of course I'll go to open days and the like to confirm I actually want to go). I have been told by the current third years that if I want to, I will probably get back into Oxford (apparently a fair number of people with one fail did this year, I had almost comically awful personal circumstances all year which I'm sure my tutor will acknowledge in her reference, and my extracurriculars are pretty good), but it's by no means guaranteed and will depend a lot on interview. What would my odds of getting into Cambridge be, insofar as you can actually tell?

Reply 12

Huw Davies

11

I asked my tutor about this in light of my own fail and she implied that Cambridge was more competitive (they have fewer places relative to their own pre-clinical course). ["You'll have to interview for Oxford now... Cambridge probably isn't an option but they might be interested if you have a good CV"].

Talking to a 5th-year yesterday she said that people got to stay at Oxford even having fails in both years.

Reply 13

Elles

17

Huw Davies

Talking to a 5th-year yesterday she said that people got to stay at Oxford even having fails in both years.

Some people. Twas probably about 50-50 for people I know who had resit and wanted to stay as their first choice.

Reply 14

Mathemagician. Funny?

This is an incredibly tough decision to make because both universities are among the world's best so which ever one you choose it won't so much depend on the reputation or the standard but more on other factors, which is in a way good because if you get in, you will be studying a course, you love, at one of the best universities in the world, good decision either way i think.

Reply 15

Quistis

Elles

Some people. Twas probably about 50-50 for people I know who had resit and wanted to stay as their first choice.

Thanks for the reply, first-hand experience is good (and thanks to Huw too, even if that wasn't what I wanted to hear :wink:

). I will keep my options open and go to Open Days, and just apply where I think I'll be happiest, rather than trying to play the numbers game - I looked rubbish on paper when applying for undergrad but managed to get in, so it's worth giving it a try when applying for clinicals too.

Elles, you offered to let me see your old Neuro essays... could I possibly see them soon? I've been revising for the last couple of weeks but feel as though my exam technique is improving only slowly...

Reply 16

person 34

9

Go to Oxford, my hot lovely friend is doing medicine there!

That was a really useless post, sorry I can't offer more help. But if you're going ofr the university experieince, I would have said Oxford because of where it's situated. If it's more about the academia, I would have guessed Cambridge.

Reply 17

$Avatar for sTe\/o$

sTe\/o

16

34 person

Go to Oxford, my hot lovely friend is doing medicine there!

I'm afraid there are many better places to go than Oxford and Cambridge if hotness is a key criterion. If only Brookes offered medicine...

Reply 18

chocolatebear

i might be biased but from what i've seen of the two application systems i think oxford's seemed slightly fairer and more transparent for medicine. i know 3 people who applied to cambridge medicine, all enthusiastic, excellent grades and all said their interviews went well, however they weren't asked anything difficult and it was more like a chat, so that seems harder to differentiate top candidates. since most candidates are also interviewed it seems like it would be difficult for them to choose. also you only get interviewed at one college in cambridge and whilst oxford use the bmat mainly as an interview selection criteria, cambridge use it more after interview, and i'm not particularly keen on a bmat separating interviewed candidates.

Reply 19

$Avatar for sTe\/o$

sTe\/o

16

chocolatebear

i might be biased but from what i've seen of the two application systems i think oxford's seemed slightly fairer and more transparent for medicine. i know 3 people who applied to cambridge medicine, all enthusiastic, excellent grades and all said their interviews went well, however they weren't asked anything difficult and it was more like a chat, so that seems harder to differentiate top candidates. since most candidates are also interviewed it seems like it would be difficult for them to choose. also you only get interviewed at one college in cambridge and whilst oxford use the bmat mainly as an interview selection criteria, cambridge use it more after interview, and i'm not particularly keen on a bmat separating interviewed candidates.

Did your friends get rejected by Cambridge? I think it's usually the case that if you find your interviews very easy and like a chat you probably didn't do very well. The medical interviews at my college were not simply "like a chat", apart from the personal interview I had as a warm-up. I also think that both Oxford and Cambridge are very transparent in their admissions system, and I can point you to the relevant documents if you like.

EDIT: Btw, I was at Cambridge for undergrad medicine.

Medicine - Oxford or Cambridge

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