How the government poisoned a black city in America.

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nulli tertius
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Observatory)
If that's what happened, incompetence mostly. This is a local government issue; the vast majority of the voters were and are black and the vast majority of the elected officials were and are black.

What happened is that black officials elected by black voters bankrupted the city, liquidators took over who switched from the Detroit city government (also black-dominated and bankrupt) water supplier to a cheaper water supplier, and when the elected officials regained control they began a state of emergency in response to this suspiciously vague crisis.
The crisis is real but what happened was Flint stood up Detroit, wanting to switch to a new, better and cheaper supply. Detroit tried to block it politically. When that failed, Detroit served notice threatening to turn off the taps before the new supply was ready. Rather than going cap in hand back to Detroit, Flint decided on plan B; supply from the local river. The new supply had a higher chloride content which caused greater corrosion to lead pipes. The scandal will concern the extent to which folk at Flint knew or ought to have known this. Flint has now gone back to the Detroit supply but the Federal and State governments have forced Detroit to give better terms than they were originally planning to impose.
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Observatory
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#22
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#22
(Original post by nulli tertius)
The crisis is real but what happened was Flint stood up Detroit, wanting to switch to a new, better and cheaper supply. Detroit tried to block it politically. When that failed, Detroit served notice threatening to turn off the taps before the new supply was ready. Rather than going cap in hand back to Detroit, Flint decided on plan B; supply from the local river. The new supply had a higher chloride content which caused greater corrosion to lead pipes. The scandal will concern the extent to which folk at Flint knew or ought to have known this. Flint has now gone back to the Detroit supply but the Federal and State governments have forced Detroit to give better terms than they were originally planning to impose.
On further investigation the increased chloride/erosion story seems at least plausible, so the public health risk may at be real. But now it is just getting weirder: the city switched back several months ago, but still has the same problem (Detroit water is just less chloridated, not not at all), still is adding corrosion inhibitor to the water, presumably had exactly the same problem before the switch too. So while the switch may have really exacerbated a real problem, it's still a problem that probably long pre-dates the current City Council's births. Wiki says, "Research done after the switch to the Flint River source found that the proportion of children with elevated blood-lead levels (above five micrograms per deciliter, or 5 × 10–6 grams per 100 milliliters of blood) rose from 2.1% to 4%, and in some areas to as much as 6.3%.[39]". Again, the basic problem is that Fint has lead pipes, not its water source, and even then the problem was basically just ignored until the liquidators left.

I say weirder because the Time article seems to have only more spectacularly missed the point in its attempt to pin this on the Ku Klux Klan.
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nulli tertius
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#23
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#23
(Original post by Observatory)
On further investigation the increased chloride/erosion story seems at least plausible, so the public health risk may at be real. But now it is just getting weirder: the city switched back several months ago, but still has the same problem (Detroit water is just less chloridated, not not at all), still is adding corrosion inhibitor to the water, presumably had exactly the same problem before the switch too. So while the switch may have really exacerbated a real problem, it's still a problem that probably long pre-dates the current City Council's births. Wiki says, "Research done after the switch to the Flint River source found that the proportion of children with elevated blood-lead levels (above five micrograms per deciliter, or 5 × 10–6 grams per 100 milliliters of blood) rose from 2.1% to 4%, and in some areas to as much as 6.3%.[39]".

I say weirder because the Time article seems to have only more spectacularly missed the point in its attempt to pin this on the Ku Klux Klan.
I have no technical knowledge but I suspect that once you have messed about with 100 year old lead pipes you wouldn't be able to go back to how it was before, if you were shipping tanker loads of Evian up the St Lawrence.
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username2348275
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#24
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#24
(Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
Absolutely disgraceful. Whoever is in charge of water and sanitation on the council needs to spend some time in a shared tastefully-decorated minimalist environment with edgy bars in the window instead of glass so that they can reflect on their negligence.
It is quite simply shocking. How other human beings can be brushed aside like vermin is beyond me.
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timelizard
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#25
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#25
(Original post by caravaggio2)
Was it high on Obama's to do list?
It's not all about race. It's about class and poverty.
Poor white people are **** on from a great height just like poor black people are.
Middle-class black people live well off lives just like middle-class white people.
Read Thomas Sowell or catch him on you tube. He explains it brilliantly.
Don't be drawn in to people trying to push a race agenda.
" It's about class and poverty"
ah yes, two things that have no intersection with race whatsoever (!)
lmao i love it when people with little to know understanding of racial discourse attempt to give their views. luv it
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username521617
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#26
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#26
Of course, when there's a non-white majority, racism must be the reason for the environmental negligence. All those mostly white-majority towns in the US that have experienced severe environmental crimes over the past 100 years did so for other reasons, I suppose...

Regardless, I can see why the non-white residents would have been the worst affected. The black residents in flint represent a large proportion of the economically disadvantaged population. Their homes and streets would be the least likely to have up-to-date sanitation infrastructure, lead-free piping, etc., because of this. The poor are always hit harder by things like this - it doesn't necessarily mean they were 'targeted' because they were black. Plus the whole town, regardless of skin colour, got their water from the same source.
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caravaggio2
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#27
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#27
(Original post by timelizard)
" It's about class and poverty"
ah yes, two things that have no intersection with race whatsoever (!)
lmao i love it when people with little to know understanding of racial discourse attempt to give their views. luv it
If looking down on me gives you pleasure and feeds your ego , be my guest.
Meanwhile, are you saying that they did this purely because the majority are poor and black and they wouldn't have done if the majority were poor and white?
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Observatory
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#28
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#28
(Original post by nulli tertius)
I have no technical knowledge but I suspect that once you have messed about with 100 year old lead pipes you wouldn't be able to go back to how it was before, if you were shipping tanker loads of Evian up the St Lawrence.
Even if that's true, a level of contaminant only detectable by a laboratory increasing in prevalence from 2% to 4% of the population is not a public health crisis as would be traditionally understood. I find it more likely that the problem already existed and was small and so was ignored, that people claiming that the water tastes/smells funny are suffering psychosomatic delusions, and that the government is primarily horse-trading in Minesota Democratic politics.

Note that the lead was only detected after the elected government complained about the water supply switch, which was imposed by outside liquidators, prompting psychosomatic symptoms that have no connection with lead poisoning. They probably just performed a huge battery of tests knowing that at least one of them would come up with something, even if just noise. Not to say that the problem shouldn't be fixed, but I'd place a good bet that it exists in a lot of other places undetected, and that if there had been no political background it would have remained undetected here too.
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Sgt_Haytham
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#29
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#29
Image


There was absolutely no need to make this a race issue.
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Homo sapien
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#30
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#30
This thread is clear race baiting. That city isn't a Black city. It has a majority Black population, but not much over half. Sounds like you think racists poisoned the city then you realise just over 40% of that population are White and they'd be effected too?
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Student403
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Danny McCoyne)
Image

The city switched its water supply from Lake Huron to a local river in a cost-saving move by government officials. Soon after the switch complaints trickled in about the water's quality and smell but residents were reassured that the water was safe.

Tests also revealed elevated levels of chemical compounds in the water supply that can lead to liver or kidney issues. Nonetheless, officials downplayed residents’ concerns, saying that the water was safe to drink.

Two years later independent research showed that the drinking supplies were found to contain lead that had leached from old plumbing pipes. There were 87 confirmed Legionnaires' cases, including 10 deaths, from June 2014 to November 2015, compared to only 21 cases in 2012 and 2013. Michigan health officials said they can't conclude that the increase was related to Flint's water.

Flint pulled water from its river for 18 months until last fall but didn't use treatments that could have reduced corrosion and removed contaminants.Local officials declared a public health emergency in October in response to elevated levels of lead in children. Lead can cause behavior problems and learning disabilities in children as well as kidney ailments in adults.

Flint residents and civil rights advocates have linked the government’s slow response to the crisis to environmental racism, a term that refers to the proven correlation between the racial, ethnic and class backgrounds of an area’s residents and proximity to hazardous waste. Flint is a majority-black city where more than 40% of residents live below the poverty line.
Couldn't take this part seriously. Why the hell is it a race issue?
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MJlover
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Student403)
Couldn't take this part seriously. Why the hell is it a race issue?
You don't think the Gov care less and are less willing to take action because of the race of the victims?
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Aj12
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#33
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#33
(Original post by MJlover)
You don't think the Gov care less and are less willing to take action because of the race of the victims?
40% of whom are white. How evil do you think the government are exactly?

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MJlover
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Aj12)
40% of whom are white. How evil do you think the government are exactly?

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Lets say that I'm not saying that the government intentionally poisoned this area. But this city is mostly African American and I know that public services such as the police, ambulances and local government are less interested in helping and take longer to respond when disasters happen to African American areas (remember Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-the-americas/
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nulli tertius
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#35
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#35
(Original post by MJlover)
But this city is mostly African American
And so are the city governments of Flint and Detroit.

Unless you are saying black people aren't fit to run things and Masser needed to come quicker to tell Uncle Tom what to do, that argument is going nowhere.
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MJlover
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#36
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#36
(Original post by nulli tertius)
And so are the city governments of Flint and Detroit.

Unless you are saying black people aren't fit to run things and Masser needed to come quicker to tell Uncle Tom what to do, that argument is going nowhere.
Proof?
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nulli tertius
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#37
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#37
(Original post by MJlover)
Proof?
Flint government

https://www.cityofflint.com/city-cou...ouncilmembers/

Detroit government

http://www.detroitmi.gov/Government/City-Council
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MJlover
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#38
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#38
Actually having black leaders in gov doesn't alwAys mean change if those working in public services at the other end are racist. For example I posted stats showing that police take longer to respond for black people. And how much have local councils helped to investigate and deal with police racism after the deaths of African American men and women last year (in police hands)
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DiddyDec01
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#39
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#39
(Original post by MJlover)
Actually having black leaders in gov doesn't alwAys mean change if those working in public services at the other end are racist. For example I posted stats showing that police take longer to respond for black people. And how much have local councils helped to investigate and deal with police racism after the deaths of African American men and women last year (in police hands)
The police chief is also black.

https://www.cityofflint.com/public-s...ce-department/

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MJlover
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#40
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#40
That still doesn't disprove my argument as I think that top level leadership can't change things when the other end of public service workers are prejudiced and they are the ones directly working with communities
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