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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    You have nothing of substance to actually say so you sidestep the point and resort to trying to wind me up. A true lefty through and through.
    No, i'm bored of talking to you when you're only purpose is to come and cheerlead for the tory party even when it had nothing to do with the point I was making. Nothing.

    David Milliband arguably would not have fared much better than Ed because he would not have stopped the SNP landlside. The impending SNP landslide allowed the tories to make people fear an SNP in government. That's what happened, hence all the pictures of Ed in Salmond's pocket and being controlled by the SNP.


    For some reason you decided to butt into a debate which you weren't involved in to argue against a point that no one was making.

    Have a nice evening.
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    Jeremy Corbyn is the leader that the party wants to have not the leader that it needs to have. The Labour Party needs to listen to the electorate if it is to be successful.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    No, i'm bored of talking to you when you're only purpose is to come and cheerlead for the tory party even when it had nothing to do with the point I was making. Nothing.

    David Milliband arguably would not have fared much better than Ed because he would not have stopped the SNP landlside. The impending SNP landslide allowed the tories to make people fear an SNP in government. That's what happened, hence all the pictures of Ed in Salmond's pocket and being controlled by the SNP.


    For some reason you decided to butt into a debate which you weren't involved in to argue against a point that no one was making.

    Have a nice evening.
    It speaks volumes to your left-wing self-righteousness complex that to you directly addressing points you raised counts as Tory cheerleading. Anything and everything you don't like is just dismissed as underhand media propaganda and cheerleading.

    And even here, it's the Tories 'making' people fear the SNP. The SNP needed no help with that. It's their history of Anglophobic remarks, fascist cyber bullying, and public tantrums that made the English electorate fear a potential coalition involving them. But never mind that, cos Tory cheerleading or something.

    I decided to get involved in a debate on a PUBLIC FORUM after you made a point I disagreed with. Heaven forbid. If you don't like people calling you out on your stupid views then keep them to yourself or go join some private left-wing circle jerk.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    It speaks volumes to your left-wing self-righteousness complex that to you directly addressing points you raised counts as Tory cheerleading. Anything and everything you don't like is just dismissed as underhand media propaganda and cheerleading.

    And even here, it's the Tories 'making' people fear the SNP. The SNP needed no help with that. It's their history of Anglophobic remarks, fascist cyber bullying, and public tantrums that made the English electorate fear a potential coalition involving them. But never mind that, cos Tory cheerleading or something.

    I decided to get involved in a debate on a PUBLIC FORUM after you made a point I disagreed with. Heaven forbid. If you don't like people calling you out on your stupid views then keep them to yourself or go join some private left-wing circle jerk.
    Deary me.
    A primary tory strategy was to paint Ed being dominated about the SNP and make people fear the SNP.
    That's not 'left wing paranoia' that's exactly what happened.

    By all means get involved in a debate, but not if you're going to argue against a point no one made.

    And now all the 'lefty' jibes. What are you? 5?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Deary me.
    A primary tory strategy was to paint Ed being dominated about the SNP and make people fear the SNP.
    That's not 'left wing paranoia' that's exactly what happened.

    By all means get involved in a debate, but not if you're going to argue against a point no one made.

    And now all the 'lefty' jibes. What are you? 5?
    There's a difference between a political party playing up fears that people already have and what you were implying. I've already listed reasons as to why English people fear the SNP. It's more than simply 'cos the Tory media told us to'.
    It's why Labour 'scaremongering' falls flat since it's mostly baseless rhetoric. Harping on about the Tories destroying the NHS got tired three decades ago.

    You literally directly made a point about the power of media scaremongering.

    What five year old makes lefty jibes? That's a stupid insult. If you were trying to imply I'm being childish, that's very rich coming from you of all people.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    There's a difference between a political party playing up fears that people already have and what you were implying. I've already listed reasons as to why English people fear the SNP. It's more than simply 'cos the Tory media told us to'.
    It's why Labour 'scaremongering' falls flat since it's mostly baseless rhetoric. Harping on about the Tories destroying the NHS got tired three decades ago.

    You literally directly made a point about the power of media scaremongering.

    What five year old makes lefty jibes? That's a stupid insult. If you were trying to imply I'm being childish, that's very rich coming from you of all people.
    Seems i've caught you in a bad mood.
    Try and stay on topic in future please. Your post had nothing whatsoever to do with my point.

    A Tory election strategy was to paint Ed Miliband being dominated by the SNP, David Miliband would have been in the same situation.

    That's about it. Quite why you deemed it appropriate to storm to cheerlead for the tories and argue against a point that no one was making and throw lots of random 'lefty' jibes is bizarre. Identity politics is boring.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Seems i've caught you in a bad mood.
    Try and stay on topic in future please. Your post had nothing whatsoever to do with my point.

    A Tory election strategy was to paint Ed Miliband being dominated by the SNP, David Miliband would have been in the same situation.

    That's about it. Quite why you deemed it appropriate to storm to cheerlead for the tories and argue against a point that no one was making and throw lots of random 'lefty' jibes is bizarre. Identity politics is boring.
    My post about scaremongering had nothing all to to do with your point about scaremongering? Brilliant logic.

    David Miliband isn't a stooge of the unions and generally doesn't have a perception of being a hardline leftie and a complete damp rag with no spine. So no, he wouldn't have been in the same situation. Because like I've already said, the electorate doesn't simply believe whatever the 'Tory media' tells them. There has to be an existing foundational basis for 'scaremongering' about something to work in the first place.
    But of course let me guess, that's all irrelevant, because Tory cheerleading or something?

    You made this about identity politics- you're the one who dismisses people who disagree with you as Tory cheerleaders. I've seen you do that on many occasions on numerous topics.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    My post about scaremongering had nothing all to to do with your point about scaremongering? Brilliant logic.

    David Miliband isn't a stooge of the unions and generally doesn't have a perception of being a hardline leftie and a complete damp rag with no spine. So no, he wouldn't have been in the same situation. Because like I've already said, the electorate doesn't simply believe whatever the 'Tory media' tells them. There has to be an existing foundational basis for 'scaremongering' about something to work in the first place.
    But of course let me guess, that's all irrelevant, because Tory cheerleading or something?

    You made this about identity politics- you're the one who dismisses people who disagree with you as Tory cheerleaders. I've seen you do that on many occasions on numerous topics.
    The Public didn't want the SNP in government, David would have not prevented the SNP landslide.

    That's about it my friend. No need to come charging in to cheerlead for the tories as you did.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    The Public didn't want the SNP in government, David would have not prevented the SNP landslide.

    That's about it my friend. No need to come charging in to cheerlead for the tories as you did.
    Yes, the English public didn't want the SNP in government, for a multitude of reasons. Not simply because the Tory media scared them and told them to think that way. David Miliband wouldn't have been as affected by the negative spin as Ed Miliband, since he'd likely have been more centre-ground and probably seen as a better leader, so less susceptible to relying on the SNP and being held to ransom by them.

    Literally the only point I've mentioned is that the electorate isn't as suspectible to media scaremongering as you make out, which I've elaborated on by discussing why the English are wary of the SNP and how left-wing scaremongering falls flat. Pray tell where exactly I was being a Tory cheerleader?
    Oh right I forgot you're a condescending self-righteous lefty who dismisses outright anything you disagree with. It's far easier I suppose to pretend to win an argument by simply saying something is the result of media brainwashing or someone is a Tory stooge than to have an actual debate.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Yes, the English public didn't want the SNP in government, for a multitude of reasons. Not simply because the Tory media scared them and told them to think that way. David Miliband wouldn't have been as affected by the negative spin as Ed Miliband, since he'd likely have been more centre-ground and probably seen as a better leader, so less susceptible to relying on the SNP and being held to ransom by them.

    Literally the only point I've mentioned is that the electorate isn't as suspectible to media scaremongering as you make out, which I've elaborated on by discussing why the English are wary of the SNP and how left-wing scaremongering falls flat. Pray tell where exactly I was being a Tory cheerleader?
    Oh right I forgot you're a condescending self-righteous lefty who dismisses outright anything you disagree with. It's far easier I suppose to pretend to win an argument by simply saying something is the result of media brainwashing or someone is a Tory stooge than to have an actual debate.
    You annihilated him
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    You annihilated him
    Hahaha

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Yes, the English public didn't want the SNP in government, for a multitude of reasons. Not simply because the Tory media scared them and told them to think that way. David Miliband wouldn't have been as affected by the negative spin as Ed Miliband, since he'd likely have been more centre-ground and probably seen as a better leader, so less susceptible to relying on the SNP and being held to ransom by them.

    Literally the only point I've mentioned is that the electorate isn't as suspectible to media scaremongering as you make out, which I've elaborated on by discussing why the English are wary of the SNP and how left-wing scaremongering falls flat. Pray tell where exactly I was being a Tory cheerleader?
    Oh right I forgot you're a condescending self-righteous lefty who dismisses outright anything you disagree with. It's far easier I suppose to pretend to win an argument by simply saying something is the result of media brainwashing or someone is a Tory stooge than to have an actual debate.
    Deary me you must have been born in the shallow end of the gene pool.
    You have come charging into a debate to argue against a point no one made in order to vehemently defend the Tory party.

    I outright dismiss anything I disagree with? Are you serious, that's exactly what you do to anything remotely left wing. Get over yourself.

    For a start I'm in the centre of the Labour Party, probably about where Gordon Brown was and secondly you always throw out the 'left wing self..' Whenever you disagree so please step down off your high horse.

    Talk about scooting off topic. This is quite something, even for tsr.
    And I'm 'self righteous'? 😂
    Talk about patheticness, you're launching into personal attacks on a student forum, does that make you feel big and hard?

    Had you even the slightest bit of common sense and intuition you would read what I actually said. In fact you broadly agree with me, the English public did not want the SNP and any labour leader would have needed them.
    Unless you think David could have won a majority in England for which he'd need over 100 English seats. Which he clearly would not have done. Sorry if that personally offends you for some strange reason.

    The rise of the SNP made it virtually impossible labour could get a majority and would need the SNP. That would have happened under David Milliband as well as Ed.
    The Tories and the right wing newspapers would still have campaigned warning people about the SNP in government.
    Quite why you were so offended by that and upset and felt the need to throw a tantrum and hurl personal abuse is quite frankly hilarious.

    Then you made your brilliant 'if I had a drink for every time..' speech. So mature and insightful.

    You can't blame me for calling you a Tory stooge when you merely charge into a debate to defend the Tories despite the fact it had nothing whatsoever to do with the debate at hand.

    Get over yourself and grow up and please for your own sake stop acting the hard man on a student forum.

    Let's see if you can respond without using the term 'left wing righteousness'. Go on I dare you.

    Cheers.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Bernie Sanders platform is basically a modern day Roosevelt and the New Deal that was ushered in the 30s.

    The fact he looks like a left wing radical is a testament to how crap things are now. Real far left were communists and radical left workers organizations. The sort that want to develop economic organization of society on none capitalist grounds. Bernie policies are plain left of centre social democrat. The fact that is deemed radical now is a testament to just how **** things have gone and how the left are loosing badly at the propaganda war.
    Sanders is very radical by American standards, you are looking at him through a European prism.

    It used to be said that in the battle of ideas the right won in economic terms and the left in social.

    The right is still winning economically, but now with this migration crisis and the failure of multiculturalism the right is starting to win the ideological battle in social terms as well.

    Not a great era to be of the left, and I can't see it changing any time soon. The reverse in fact.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)

    Let's see if you can respond without using the term 'left wing righteousness'. Go on I dare you.
    He's right though, the left are nauseatingly self righteous.

    Do you deny that you believe yourself to be morally superior, better, than someone to the right of you politically?
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    He's right though, the left are nauseatingly self righteous.

    Do you deny that you believe yourself to be morally superior, better, than someone to the right of you politically?
    And so are the right with their whole 'we believe in British values' crap. Except of course current British values like multi culturalism, tolerance etc. And they turn a blind eye to britains relatinship with foreign dictators.


    Yes of course I deny it. I don't believe in objective morality so I don't believe in levels of morality.
    Do you deny he thinks he's better tha an anyone on the left?

    Yes the left are annoying, so too are the right. People interested in politics by definition are, all subject themselves to confirmation bias, all are hypocritical.

    The double standards are stunning.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Deary me you must have been born in the shallow end of the gene pool.
    You have come charging into a debate to argue against a point no one made in order to vehemently defend the Tory party.

    I outright dismiss anything I disagree with? Are you serious, that's exactly what you do to anything remotely left wing. Get over yourself.

    For a start I'm in the centre of the Labour Party, probably about where Gordon Brown was and secondly you always throw out the 'left wing self..' Whenever you disagree so please step down off your high horse.

    Talk about scooting off topic. This is quite something, even for tsr.
    And I'm 'self righteous'? 😂
    Talk about patheticness, you're launching into personal attacks on a student forum, does that make you feel big and hard?

    Had you even the slightest bit of common sense and intuition you would read what I actually said. In fact you broadly agree with me, the English public did not want the SNP and any labour leader would have needed them.
    Unless you think David could have won a majority in England for which he'd need over 100 English seats. Which he clearly would not have done. Sorry if that personally offends you for some strange reason.

    The rise of the SNP made it virtually impossible labour could get a majority and would need the SNP. That would have happened under David Milliband as well as Ed.
    The Tories and the right wing newspapers would still have campaigned warning people about the SNP in government.
    Quite why you were so offended by that and upset and felt the need to throw a tantrum and hurl personal abuse is quite frankly hilarious.

    Then you made your brilliant 'if I had a drink for every time..' speech. So mature and insightful.

    You can't blame me for calling you a Tory stooge when you merely charge into a debate to defend the Tories despite the fact it had nothing whatsoever to do with the debate at hand.

    Get over yourself and grow up and please for your own sake stop acting the hard man on a student forum.

    Let's see if you can respond without using the term 'left wing righteousness'. Go on I dare you.

    Cheers.
    I'm from the southwest where the tories turned the lib dem heartlands blue through their voracious campaigning about the possibility of the SNP. Literally driving around there were banners that if we voted lib dem we were voting the SNP in.

    I agree with you that it's a fact labour would have needed the SNP to form the government and also that the tories partly won at least some of their majority by fear-mongering about the SNP in power both in their campaign tactics and through the right wing media.

    I don't see what the issue is with the guy disagreeing with you.
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    I'm from the southwest where the tories turned the lib dem heartlands blue through their voracious campaigning about the possibility of the SNP. Literally driving around there were banners that if we voted lib dem we were voting the SNP in.

    I agree with you that it's a fact labour would have needed the SNP to form the government and also that the tories partly won at least some of their majority by fear-mongering about the SNP in power both in their campaign tactics and through the right wing media.

    I don't see what the issue is with the guy disagreeing with you.
    Thank you!
    At last someone with a bit of common sense.

    The Tories heavily, heavily campaigned about the SNP. The Beckett report found fear of the SNP was a big factor in lib dem- Tory marginals. Therefore David milliband would have unlikely fared much better as he still would have needed the SNP.

    Quite why pol pot got so offended by that and felt the need to repeatedly throw out the term 'self righteousness' is perplexing to say the least.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    And so are he right with their whole 'we believe in British values' crap. Except of course current British values like multi culturalism, tolerance etc. And they turn a blind eye to britains relatinship with foreign dictators.


    Yes of course I deny it. I don't believe in objective morality so I don't believe in levels of morality.
    Do you deny he thinks he's better tha an anyone on the left?

    Yes the left are annoying, so too are the right. People interested in politics by definition are, all subject themselves to confirmation bias, all are hypocritical.

    The double standards are stunning.
    So you are a relativist and don't believe in objective morality?

    It reminds me of an episode in Boswell's "Life of Johnson":

    "Why, Sir, if the fellow does not think as he speaks, he is lying; and I see not what honour he can propose to himself from having the character of a lyar. But if he does really think that there is no distinction between virtue and vice, why, Sir, when he leaves our houses let us count our spoons."
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    So you are a relativist and don't believe in objective morality?

    It reminds me of an episode in Boswell's "Life of Johnson":

    "Why, Sir, if the fellow does not think as he speaks, he is lying; and I see not what honour he can propose to himself from having the character of a lyar. But if he does really think that there is no distinction between virtue and vice, why, Sir, when he leaves our houses let us count our spoons."
    Yes. Morality is man made.
    I don't think anything is objectively right or wrong. It's humans who determine that.
    Yes we have our own moral standards, but as a concept I really disagree with there being an objective morality or one standard that we should live to.

    Plus there are better justifications. Being against murder on the grounds of morality for example is saying 'it is wrong because it is wrong'.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Yes. Morality is man made.
    I don't think anything is objectively right or wrong. It's humans who determine that.
    Yes we have our own moral standards, but as a concept I really disagree with there being an objective morality or one standard that we should live to.

    Plus there are better justifications. Being against murder on the grounds of morality for example is saying 'it is wrong because it is wrong'.
    OK, I get that. I understand your point.

    But is it your position that everyone's subjective opinion is "just as good" in moral terms?

    And if not, why can you not feel morally superior to a right winger?
 
 
 
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