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Would you leave the UK if Jeremy Corbyn was elected? Watch

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    (Original post by acupofgreentea)
    He's either someone who has policies that could help you or he's a "terrible man." It's hardly fair to say both.
    What I mean is while I'm a student and have no money I will take whatever the billions of pounds he is throwing away I can get. But as soon as I get a job, I'll have to pay for it through presumably ridiculously high taxes, so at that point I'll leave. It's a sort of, if you can't beat them, just take what they're offering you and leave mentality.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    China is a capitalist as ****. Sorry to break ti to you but we a decidedly more left wing country than china. Even with these Tories inc charge! NHS. Welfare state. Human rights. We can all vote in representative democracy. Government can't arrest me fro saying they are ****.
    I'm reading Hitch 22 right now and he sums it up well: [to paraphrase]

    China despite completely agreeing with Marxist ideology is the most capitalistic country on the planet because it forbids the main point of Marxism which is in allowing workers to organize and to form unions to protect their class interests (Or rather technically forming a union is permitted, but having meetings in the union or organizing it in the first place are forbidden) thus for a capitalist they have the best of both worlds: a non democratic restrained labour force and a system which allows a privileged elite to retain personal wealth.
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    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    What I mean is while I'm a student and have no money I will take whatever the billions of pounds he is throwing away I can get. But as soon as I get a job, I'll have to pay for it through presumably ridiculously high taxes, so at that point I'll leave. It's a sort of, if you can't beat them, just take what they're offering you and leave mentality.
    What party do you support? If it's a party that wouldn't provide this for you, you're inferring a party you support is willing to leave you to flounder in debt merely because you wanted to further your education but Corbyn is a "terrible man" for wanting to ensure all have access to higher education, even those who the financial burden may have prevented before?

    Yes, that makes complete sense.

    (Original post by aeroline1999)
    But as soon as I get a job, I'll have to pay for it through presumably ridiculously high taxes, so at that point I'll leave. It's a sort of, if you can't beat them, just take what they're offering you and leave mentality.
    "I'm going to take a lot from the system while complaining about the system, then I'm going to leave before I have to pay back into the system that has been so kind to me because hey, I've got what I want and who cares about all those other future students in my situation that my tax money would have helped and the tax payers that helped fund me?"

    This is what I got from that statement.
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    (Original post by acupofgreentea)
    What party do you support? If it's a party that wouldn't provide this for you, you're inferring a party you support is willing to leave you to flounder in debt merely because you wanted to further your education but Corbyn is a "terrible man" for wanting to ensure all have access to higher education, even those who the financial burden may have prevented before?

    Yes, that makes complete sense.



    "I'm going to take a lot from the system while complaining about the system, then I'm going to leave before I have to pay back into the system that has been so kind to me because hey, I've got what I want and who cares about all those other future students in my situation that my tax money would have helped and the tax payers that helped fund me?"

    This is what I got from that statement.

    This is one of those things that amkes you doubt things that appear as 'common sense' which is generally seen as proof in itself by right wingers but left wingers too are susceptible.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...ts-uk-scotland

    Free tuition privileges the already wealthy.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    This is one of those things that amkes you doubt things that appear as 'common sense' which is generally seen as proof in itself by right wingers but left wingers too are susceptible.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...ts-uk-scotland

    Free tuition privileges the already wealthy.
    I've thought about this myself - how, even though underpriviledged students should have better access into HE, more financially students will - always - be at an advantage merely because of their financial fortune.

    It was an interesting article, although I don't think it demonstrates cause and effect - yes, it shows underpriveledged Scottish students are less likely to go to university than those who are English, but that doesn't necessarily correlate to the fact Scotland have free tuition fees.

    The proposal of substituting free tuition fees for very favourable grants for underpriveledged students is a fair point, but it doesn't account for - say - the many of students who wouldn't qualify for grants but their parents, regardless, will not financially support them. I know the government currently adopt the attitude that if your parents earn above a certain amount, they should be expected to help pay toward your education and they can't help if your parents choose to do otherwise, but it's a flawed logic - you're punishing students for their parents being jerks, although I am aware it would be very hard to bring in a rule that did otherwise, mostly because it would have to be a case-by-case basis.

    Most of all, I don't think you should be charged for merely wanting to learn - it's odd how we deem everything up until university as something that should be free, then have an entirely different opinion on university - all are academic insitutitions.
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    (Original post by acupofgreentea)
    I've thought about this myself - how, even though underpriviledged students should have better access into HE, more financially students will - always - be at an advantage merely because of their financial fortune.

    It was an interesting article, although I don't think it demonstrates cause and effect - yes, it shows underpriveledged Scottish students are less likely to go to university than those who are English, but that doesn't necessarily correlate to the fact Scotland have free tuition fees.

    The proposal of substituting free tuition fees for very favourable grants for underpriveledged students is a fair point, but it doesn't account for - say - the many of students who wouldn't qualify for grants but their parents, regardless, will not financially support them. I know the government currently adopt the attitude that if your parents earn above a certain amount, they should be expected to help pay toward your education and they can't help if your parents choose to do otherwise, but it's a flawed logic - you're punishing students for their parents being jerks, although I am aware it would be very hard to bring in a rule that did otherwise, mostly because it would have to be a case-by-case basis.

    Most of all, I don't think you should be charged for merely wanting to learn - it's odd how we deem everything up until university as something that should be free, then have an entirely different opinion on university - all are academic insitutitions.
    I'm afraid i'm with Nietzche on universities: there's far too many of them and a lot of people who go to them would be better off doing something else. I fail to see why people cant learn in their spare time. Whilst increasing the amount of people, especially working class people who go to university is certainly a good thing, the expectant attitude of people coming out of university jobless with a degree in media studies is a problem I think.

    I can also say that a lot of students (Certainly myself when I was 18) were essentially going to uni to doss, have sex and take drugs (I didn't go in the end, but managed to achieve at least partially my ambitions in those areas).

    As for your last point- I can see where Cameron is coming from when he says (To paraphrase) working class people shouldn't have to pay taxes so that upper middle class kids can spend three years studying art history).



    I'm actually not sure on what the best policy is....
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I'm reading Hitch 22 right now and he sums it up well: [to paraphrase]

    China despite completely agreeing with Marxist ideology is the most capitalistic country on the planet because it forbids the main point of Marxism which is in allowing workers to organize and to form unions to protect their class interests (Or rather technically forming a union is permitted, but having meetings in the union or organizing it in the first place are forbidden) thus for a capitalist they have the best of both worlds: a non democratic restrained labour force and a system which allows a privileged elite to retain personal wealth.
    Animal Farm indeed.


    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

    :sad:


    You have to really climb a massive mountain with some peeps on here getting them to accept that such a capitalist system can be so thoroughly totalitarian. These the same twits that hate unions and are sympathetic to all kinds of authoritarian methods of suppressing them!
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    (Original post by Penguinfarts)
    Can we just swap Jeremy Corbyn for Bernie Sanders, he seems like a much more sane version.
    Agreed, absolutely love Bernie and he's someone I could really get behind. Corbyn? Sorry, no.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    Views?
    As a one nation tory, I wouldn't leave, I support him on unionism, though I disagree with his stance on N. Ireland. I support him on FPTP. I support him on the need for more social housing. I support him on euroskepticism. I support him on holding capitalism to account. I disagree with him on so many issues, but there are things the "new right" are getting wrong, and in all honesty I have great respect for him and though I'd rather a Tory Government, I must say that he makes a decent opposition to the modern day Thatcherite conservatism.
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    I don't think he'd change the government so much you'd have to leave...,
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    Yes, I would. I wouldn't be able to tolerate living here with someone like him in power.
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    (Original post by Penguinfarts)
    Can we just swap Jeremy Corbyn for Bernie Sanders, he seems like a much more sane version. With my only great disagreement with The Bern being on guns.
    Sanders is nearly as insane as Corbyn. Not as bad because he's not mates with people who want to murder all gay people (among others) but in terms of having policies which are of this planet.........
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Sanders is nearly as insane as Corbyn.
    Is he? Haven't seen anything that screams 'nutter' from him so far...

    Just seen your edit: which in particular?
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    (Original post by acupofgreentea)
    What party do you support? If it's a party that wouldn't provide this for you, you're inferring a party you support is willing to leave you to flounder in debt merely because you wanted to further your education but Corbyn is a "terrible man" for wanting to ensure all have access to higher education, even those who the financial burden may have prevented before?

    Yes, that makes complete sense.



    "I'm going to take a lot from the system while complaining about the system, then I'm going to leave before I have to pay back into the system that has been so kind to me because hey, I've got what I want and who cares about all those other future students in my situation that my tax money would have helped and the tax payers that helped fund me?"

    This is what I got from that statement.
    What I'm saying is that I don't want him to start splashing out the cash by massively increasing taxes and borrowing trillion after trillion. What I'm saying is, if he wins, I will still be in university and whilst I'm still in university it will be the one time in my life that the Corbynists will actually want to help me. When I get a job they will impose huge taxes that will make it virtually unaffordable to stay in this country. His policies will make it very difficult to make a decent living because it is likely business will suffer and if I do manage to get a job in the economy Corbyn will have destroyed I will be paying most of my income to HMRC. Personally, as someone with aspiration, I'd rather keep as much as my hard earned money as possible, so said of staying behind to pay for Corbyn's ridiculous money wasting and ideological policies, I will leave. Maybe for a country that values self-improvement a little more...
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    (Original post by harinimnida)
    I would honestly rather leave the UK and go back to communist China because they'd allow more capitalism than Corbynski.
    I don't think Corbyn wants to stop all capitalism, even if it were possible.

    Corbyn just wants to level the playing field. You know so the people getting richer aren't doing it at the expense of the poor.

    Increasing levels of inequality a huge threat to everyone (apart from perhaps the über rich),and Corbyn wants to stop the direction and magnitude of this current trend.

    I'm not pro Corbyn getting elected by any reach but I'm just pointing it that it's not like he wants to literally stop capitalism.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Is he? Haven't seen anything that screams 'nutter' from him so far...

    Just seen your edit: which in particular?
    Free education and healthcare maybe
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    (Original post by Lime-man)
    Free education and healthcare maybe
    Free education is not coming back by anyone


    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Free education is not coming back by anyone


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    I think the UKs system is the most progressive, the Scottish system is flawed though.
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    No, what a ridiculous over-reaction. I'd rather try to fix my country, then running off like a child
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    Well this Tory government has convinced me to go so whether it'd be any worse with Corbyn I don't know, at least I know Corbyn isn't as much of an extremist as Cameron.

    Yes, I said that. Come fight me IRL.
 
 
 
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