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of course a 1st from St. Andrews is good enough for top North American political science PhD programmes. a good 2:1 is a bit shaky for top PhD in Political Science. but then the same is also true for any university, even Oxbridge. 1st seems to be a must.

St. Andrews has an excellent reputation In North America. After Oxbridge, LSE, most North Americans I have met only know St. Andrews.
Reply 2
Do North American professors think St. Andrews is good for International Relations? I know no one can really give a definite answer. I really want to know more about St. Andrews's reputation in North America because I am also offered a place in U of Toronto, which is supposed to be very famous in North America (Of course). I did not apply to any US universities because I could not afford to study there.
yeung3939
Do North American professors think St. Andrews is good for International Relations? I know no one can really give a definite answer. I really want to know more about St. Andrews's reputation in North America because I am also offered a place in U of Toronto, which is supposed to be very famous in North America (Of course). I did not apply to any US universities because I could not afford to study there.


I have several friends who are studying or working in the states and canada with St Andrews degrees and postgraduate qualifications. I myself was considered for a PhD in several top US schools. IR is one of St Andrews' strongest subjects with an international reputation.
Reply 4
St. Andrews is quite well-known in the States. Harvard Law School is my only experience of US university education. You must know how competitive it is for international students to get a place for Harvard JD. Although I was doing LLM, I know 4 British JD students while I was there, 2 from St. Andrews, 1 from Oxford 1 from University of London (forgot which college). This says something about St. Andrews! Looking at the admission statistics, Toronto also only sent 2 students to Harvard JD that year. But bear in mind, far more Toronto students apply to US law school, while far fewer St. Andrews students apply (they prefer the CPE or doing a Scottish 2 year LLB).
Reply 5
jeffreyweingard
of course a 1st from St. Andrews is good enough for top North American political science PhD programmes. a good 2:1 is a bit shaky for top PhD in Political Science. but then the same is also true for any university, even Oxbridge. 1st seems to be a must.

St. Andrews has an excellent reputation In North America. After Oxbridge, LSE, most North Americans I have met only know St. Andrews.

I totally agree. In the UK, only Oxbridge and LSE have a better reputation than St. Andrews in USA.
Reply 6
MMM
St. Andrews is quite well-known in the States. Harvard Law School is my only experience of US university education. You must know how competitive it is for international students to get a place for Harvard JD. Although I was doing LLM, I know 4 British JD students while I was there, 2 from St. Andrews, 1 from Oxford 1 from University of London (forgot which college). This says something about St. Andrews! Looking at the admission statistics, Toronto also only sent 2 students to Harvard JD that year. But bear in mind, far more Toronto students apply to US law school, while far fewer St. Andrews students apply (they prefer the CPE or doing a Scottish 2 year LLB).


Thank you so much! I get frustrated because St. Andrews is virtually unknown in Asia, particularly Hong Kong.:redface:

It is indeed very difficult to get into Harvard law school! I studied in HKU law school and only the top top top students could get into places like Harvard law school, Oxford BCL, Stanford law school! Many of them got in with scholarships though.

By the way, the fact that U of Toronto only sent two students to Harvard that year really surprised me. UT is supposed to be very very famous in North America...:cool:
Reply 7
yeung3939
Thank you so much! I get frustrated because St. Andrews is virtually unknown in Asia, particularly Hong Kong.:redface:

It is indeed very difficult to get into Harvard law school! I studied in HKU law school and only the top top top students could get into places like Harvard law school, Oxford BCL, Stanford law school! Many of them got in with scholarships though.

By the way, the fact that U of Toronto only sent two students to Harvard that year really surprised me. UT is supposed to be very very famous in North America...:cool:

Am I right in thinking that JD is harder to get into for int. student than LLM? If so, then the fact that St. Andrews sent 2 students for JD, really does say something about its rep in US.
Reply 8
bryan
Am I right in thinking that JD is harder to get into for int. student than LLM? If so, then the fact that St. Andrews sent 2 students for JD, really does say something about its rep in US.

Yes. it is much harder for international students to get into JD.
Yeung, U of Toronto sent more students to the LLM class. But since you are thinking about undergraduate study and not law school, I thought JD admission statistics is more a relevant illustration of St. Andrews' reputation in the States. Furthermore, St. Andrews doesn't have a law school, so no point in comparing how many St. Andrews graduates were in the LLM class of my year.
As a U of T alumnus about to do postgraduate study in London next year, I can tell you that a good 2:1 will be okay for a Poli Sci. Ph.D. A 1st would be better, of course, but whatever. Professors will look real hard at your research proposal so write a real good one. Good references help, of course.

As for its fame, within Canada, most people would think UToronto to be more prestigious than McGill and I was surprised when I began to realize that abroad that it wasn't the case. It isn't as popular with US students, which might be part of it.

That said, I'm not sure the amount of people we send to Harvard is any indication of quality (good or bad). It depends on who applies, right? I know that at least one of the two Rhodes Scholars allocated to Ontario was from U of T. In the Poli Sci. department, actually.
Reply 10
Just a silly question. Did you know St. Andrews before joining TSR?
Vaguely; I had already done all my admissions and gotten my acceptance into a UK university before I found TSR. I was much more familiar with Edinburgh.
Reply 12
Phoenix Wright

That said, I'm not sure the amount of people we send to Harvard is any indication of quality (good or bad). It depends on who applies, right?

I think MMM is not trying to use this piece of information to try to illustrate that U of T is good or bad. He is just trying to establish that St. Andrews at least has a similar reputation, at least in Harvard admissions people's eyes.

I am not sure how many Rhodes Scholars U of T produced is useful for the OP. He is interested in comparing St. Andrews and U of T. Rhodes Scholarships, as you rightly pointed out, are allocated to a specific province. Therefore, your information only demonstrates that U of T is the best or one of the better unis in Ontario. Also, bear in mind that Rhodes Scholarships are not offered in UK.
Reply 13
Phoenix Wright
I was much more familiar with Edinburgh.

This depends on your subject... Edinburgh is better than St. Andrews for some subjects. But for IR, St. Andrews is definitely better.
Reply 14
MMM, may I know whether the Havard JD St. Andrews guys were Americans? Are they international students? Thank you!!!

Thank you for what you all have offered!!! Since U of T is really a good university (at least top 25 in the world?) while St. Andrews is ranked about 100th in the world, any further information will surely help.
Phoenix Wright
As a U of T alumnus about to do postgraduate study in London next year, I can tell you that a good 2:1 will be okay for a Poli Sci. Ph.D. A 1st would be better, of course, but whatever. Professors will look real hard at your research proposal so write a real good one. Good references help, of course.


I don't know about this. You're doing an MSc, not a PhD, correct? I have friends who got high 2:1s or 1sts in their BAs and are on track for an MSc distinction, yet are struggling to get into good PhD programs in political science.
Reply 16
A master with distinction from a top institutioncannot 'cover' a relative weak bachelor? Thanks.
You can't usually get onto a good masters with a weak bachelors degree.
Reply 18
Oh. Sorry. Is a good 2:1 + a master with distinction from a top institution good enough for top Phd programmes? Thanks !
Reply 19
yeung3939

Thank you for what you all have offered!!! Since U of T is really a good university (at least top 25 in the world?) while St. Andrews is ranked about 100th in the world, any further information will surely help.

You cannot take those rankings at face value when deciding where to get your undergraduate degree. St. Andrews is not a research intensive university, so it will not have a high ranking in the global universities rankings. Top US liberal arts college, such as Amherst and Williams, don't have high global ranking too. But this doesn't mean the teaching is bad. In fact, the teaching quality at these institutions, which focus on undergraduates, is better than the teaching quality at most research intensive universities.