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Rhodes must fall campaign backfires. Watch

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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    EH doesn't exist any more and when it did, it was generally a very middle of the road, cautious institution, avoiding any political troubles, apart from when acting as a direct agent of government, as it did over Stonehenge during the trouble there in the 80's.
    http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/
    2010 to 2015 government policy: conservation of historic buildings and monuments
    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-and-monuments

    'promoting the understanding, valuing, caring and enjoyment of the historic environment through funding English Heritage'
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    (Original post by CurlyBen)
    How many people, in this country or any other, do you think don't have ancestors who were oppressed in one way or another?

    It's not going to be a long list, I'll tell you that!
    For hundreds of years, most people in this country were serfs. So undoubtably most have ancestors who were oppressed. Also bear in mind that the empire only made wealth for the rich elite. Taxpaying normal people here were helping supporting the existence of this cartel.

    I demand reperations. Give me my givemedats. I deserve it through some of my ancestors being oppressed serfs like most other people.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    South African student politicians are equally careerist. This guy is ANC royality carving out a name for himself.



    It didn't send out any message until this activist made a point of it.
    Chumani Maxwele? He really isn't. He's a very committed and radical guy with his own agenda, but he has had no link with the ANC.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumani_Maxwele

    There's an excellent article in the Grauniad about the student protests in South Africa over this. It's a genuine grassroots student movement and nothing to do with posturing for position in the ruling party.
    http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015...nts-generation
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I think Mary Beard was probably worrying about the mass removal of statues from public places. Anyone with a negative history to get toppled off their plinths, as they used to do in Roman times and other periods of history when a 'great man' lot favour.

    The debate around statues of Rhodes is an interesting one because it reminds a lot of people about the colonialist behaviour of Europe and Britain in particular in Africa. Oxford is riddled (as is much of historic Britain) with the legacy of the imperial past. Another nice example is the (beautiful) Codrington Library at All Souls - donated out of the massive compensation paid to a slave owner after the 'abolition' (eg, leave it to the Americans) of slavery.

    Personally I think the identity of the £100m donor who allegedly threatened withdrawal over this should be published. When financial threats are the basis of decisions affecting well known institutions, people should know who is making the threats.
    Why should he? One is perfectly entitled to keep the contents of his will a secret.
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    The Provost of Oriel, some time serving pen pusher called Moira Wallace really screwed up. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets deposed, down the line. It's not "Rhodes must fall" but "Wallace must fall!"

    Contrast that with the Master of University College, Ivor Crewe. The JCR in an idiotic move in sympathy with the Oriel loons, voted to rename a Technology Centre gifted by former Rhodes Scholars (one of whom was Bill Clinton incidentally) and named after them, and therefore indirectly Rhodes himself. .

    The Master (under a lot of pressure from Old Members who are very generous to the college) told them to shove their vote where the sun doesn't shine.
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    Pleased to see this.

    Surely I can't be the only one who sees the hipocrisy of taking a scholarship and then complainaing about where the money that funds it came from? If it was that big a deal voting with your feet and not accepting it would have been the right thing to do.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    The Provost of Oriel, some time serving pen pusher called Moira Wallace really screwed up. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets deposed, down the line. It's not "Rhodes must fall" but "Wallace must fall!"

    Contrast that with the Master of University College, Ivor Crewe. The JCR in an idiotic move in sympathy with the Oriel loons, voted to rename a Technology Centre gifted by former Rhodes Scholars (one of whom was Bill Clinton incidentally) and named after them, and therefore indirectly Rhodes himself. .

    The Master (under a lot of pressure from Old Members who are very generous to the college) told them to shove their vote where the sun doesn't shine.
    She is interested in social exclusion and she's an intelligent, thoughtful woman who cares about access to Oxford for minorities. Perhaps some of the people who are so keen to see colonialism celebrated have an issue with minorities having access? Some of the reactions we are seeing to this story seem quite racist in tone.

    Evidently the campaign to bring the statue down was on to something....
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    She is interested in social exclusion and she's an intelligent, thoughtful woman who cares about access to Oxford for minorities. Perhaps some of the people who are so keen to see colonialism celebrated have an issue with minorities having access? Some of the reactions we are seeing to this story seem quite racist in tone.

    Evidently the campaign to bring the statue down was on to something....
    Are you accusing me of being a racist?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    But if I was studying at this place I would find it annoying that this racist knob is what my college is named after.
    I'm not sure what you believe. Do you believe the college is called Rhodes College? Or do you think it is named after a racist chap called Oriel?

    Anyway, the college has made the right decision, belatedly, and had an opportunity to remember what Confucius said about indecision:

    Man who sits on fence will tear his trousers.

    They should have dismissed the fatuous calls to get rid of the statue out of hand, and any Rhodes scholar who supported the protest should be sent home and lose his scholarship for gross hypocrisy.
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    Are you accusing me of being a racist?
    No, I'm saying that many of the reactions to the latest news appear to demonstrate a link between the old colonialist and racist attitudes of Rhodes and modern day racism - the people celebrating this decision on forums and news sites today are sometimes using language that indicates an admiration for the white man rules philosophy.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    She is interested in social exclusion and she's an intelligent, thoughtful woman who cares about access to Oxford for minorities. Perhaps some of the people who are so keen to see colonialism celebrated have an issue with minorities having access? Some of the reactions we are seeing to this story seem quite racist in tone.

    Evidently the campaign to bring the statue down was on to something....
    We'll see how she fares.

    The biggest job of any Head of College is to keep the money flowing in and to preserve its reputation. She seems to be failing in the first and has definitely failed in the second. The college has become a laughing stock.

    Finally, politically she needs to keep the SCR on board. Hard to imagine this is going down well with most of them.

    She wouldn't be the first Provost to be discreetly asked to retire.
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    Christ on a rope, I thought they had privatisd good news.😁
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    But if I was studying at this place I would find it annoying that this racist knob is what my college is named after.
    The stupidity of that statement has already been dealt with but I would note that you would have chosen to go to this college no one would have made you so why on earth would you choose of your own free will to go to a place where you find the name of the collage 'annoying'?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)

    Personally I think the identity of the £100m donor who allegedly threatened withdrawal over this should be published. When financial threats are the basis of decisions affecting well known institutions, people should know who is making the threats.
    Great idea.
    As long as you want to guarantee no other private benefactors leave you money. It's their money and its their choice. People trying to shame them will only have one result.
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    Any students at Birmingham University on this thread?

    You institution was founded by Cecil's great mate, the political sponsor of his Jameson Raid, a rabid racist and imperialist, Joseph Chamberlain.

    There is a huge clock tower on your campus named after him.

    Don't you think it must fall? Isn't that clock an an affront to every African student there? Can they possibly feel safe with it looming over them as they walk by, a vivid reminder of the "white man rules" philosophy?

    "Old Joe must fall!" "Old Joe must fall!"
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    [QUOTE=Fullofsurprises;62345311]Chumani Maxwele? He really isn't. He's a very committed and radical guy with his own agenda, but he has had no link with the ANC.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumani_Maxwele

    /QUOTE]


    As far as I am aware his name is Qwabe.




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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    No, I'm saying that many of the reactions to the latest news appear to demonstrate a link between the old colonialist and racist attitudes of Rhodes and modern day racism - the people celebrating this decision on forums and news sites today are sometimes using language that indicates an admiration for the white man rules philosophy.

    I'm sure some of us are using language that indicates a dismissiveness of the gripes about our culture and history of (a) temporary visitors to this country and (b) the delicate little flowers who think everything should, first and foremost, accommodate their precious feelings. I'm sure (a) overlaps with what you've called the 'white man rules philosophy', but it's not the same thing.

    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    We'll see how she fares.

    The biggest job of any Head of College is to keep the money flowing in and to preserve its reputation. She seems to be failing in the first and has definitely failed in the second. The college has become a laughing stock.

    Finally, politically she needs to keep the SCR on board. Hard to imagine this is going down well with most of them.

    She wouldn't be the first Provost to be discreetly asked to retire.
    Really they just need to put in place someone with a spine. I had thought that that was impossible, but recently both the Chancellor and Vice-Chancellor of Oxford are on record telling students, one way or another, to grow up, so perhaps there's hope.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Chumani Maxwele? He really isn't. He's a very committed and radical guy with his own agenda, but he has had no link with the ANC.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumani_Maxwele

    There's an excellent article in the Grauniad about the student protests in South Africa over this. It's a genuine grassroots student movement and nothing to do with posturing for position in the ruling party.
    http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015...nts-generation
    The student is question is actually called Ntokozo Qwabe.

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    What did they think would happen if they treated their most generous donor with such contempt?
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    What did they think would happen if they treated their most generous donor with such contempt?
    It seems they forget theirs are not the only voices in the conversation despite how loudly they were shouting.

    But of course they could offer to make up the money the college would lose themselves so their want to destroy the statue would not effect the education of countless others.
 
 
 
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