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    My friend went to an ex poly twenty to thirty odd years ago. People hire him because his skills are valuable and universally and always needed and he has proven experience. Nobody even asks him about his degree. He could have been to oxbridge and many wouldn't have thought to ask him anyway because they're like skills needed now please.

    His degree helped him get his first, maybe second job but now he's flying high and it comes down to him and not what's on paper really.
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    You know why Manchester tops that ranking (and has done since 2001 when it was first produced)?

    A) it's big
    B) it's close enough to two other universities that targeting one targets all three therefore raising company profile among a huge number of graduates for..
    C) a very low fee. Manchester used to offer free stands at careers fairs when other universities were charging
    And
    D) since the 90s (maybe earlier but that's as far back as I can speak with any authority) the Manchester careers service got a reputation among recruiters for good *perks* for their attendees. In the early 2000s they provided a free lunch and refreshments to recruiters. So the big companies got the word out and they all went...and when the perks disappeared no company wanted to be the sole absentee.

    It has no relevance to the average employability of the average graduate.
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    (Original post by jneill)
    No. In the longer term the uni, if anything, becomes even less important. It will be your ongoing work performance (and expertise) that is MUCH more important.

    And I suspect your mum would agree.

    What industry does she hire for?

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    Maybe, but the jobs market is very competitive and I suspect any edge you can get on competitors is helpful and she says that certain companies recruiting for top actuarial/lawyer jobs insist on RG. That's just what she says, that's all I know, maybe she's wrong but I trust a professional recruiter who I know more than prospective students, students or other ex-students on this forum (no offence intended). Maybe she's wrong, but I don't massively mind where I go anyway.
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    (Original post by Ads20000)
    Maybe, but the jobs market is very competitive and I suspect any edge you can get on competitors is helpful and she says that certain companies recruiting for top actuarial/lawyer jobs insist on RG. That's just what she says, that's all I know, maybe she's wrong but I trust a professional recruiter who I know more than prospective students, students or other ex-students on this forum (no offence intended). Maybe she's wrong, but I don't massively mind where I go anyway.
    I really don't think outside of Oxbridge and potentially LSE and imperial that this is a thing tbh. I think it's oxbridge's membership that is skewing things.

    The RG within itself is super variable and your friend is just one recruiter.

    I have a non RG degree and got offers from 4 top law firms for vac schemes and/or training contracts. I have a good degree, a strong academic record, I interview fairly well, I have tons of work experience and I'm pretty sure that's why I did well in that respect. A lot of people even from Oxbridge get rejected at app form stage for these jobs.

    I think the RG thing is simply a confound and people need to get over it.
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    It's worth remembering that most people over 30 won't have heard of the RG (and a good number of RG employees in academic roles couldn't pick the RG members from a list).

    When we applied we were told that the marker for "good" was redbrick universities....The Russell Group branding is only something that has kicked in big style since the 2001 REF results.
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    (Original post by Ads20000)
    Maybe, but the jobs market is very competitive and I suspect any edge you can get on competitors is helpful and she says that certain companies recruiting for top actuarial/lawyer jobs insist on RG. That's just what she says, that's all I know, maybe she's wrong but I trust a professional recruiter who I know more than prospective students, students or other ex-students on this forum (no offence intended). Maybe she's wrong, but I don't massively mind where I go anyway.
    http://www.afr.com/business/legal/ac...0150830-gjbc78
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    That's paywalled, I can't see it.
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    I really don't think outside of Oxbridge and potentially LSE and imperial that this is a thing tbh. I think it's oxbridge's membership that is skewing things.

    The RG within itself is super variable and your friend is just one recruiter.

    I have a non RG degree and got offers from 4 top law firms for vac schemes and/or training contracts. I have a good degree, a strong academic record, I interview fairly well, I have tons of work experience and I'm pretty sure that's why I did well in that respect. A lot of people even from Oxbridge get rejected at app form stage for these jobs.

    I think the RG thing is simply a confound and people need to get over it.
    According to my mum (who's opinion on the matter was what i was referring to), it doesnt necessarily matter for training or vac schemes or even most jobs, but for very 'high-up' jobs in law and finance where SOME companies don't consider those who dont have an RG (or, at least, 'good uni') degree.
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    (Original post by Ads20000)
    That's paywalled, I can't see it.
    Bad news for students who have spent too much time in the library: PwC is removing candidates' academic results from the final stage of law-graduate recruitment .To get a law graduate job at PwC candidates had to jump through all the usual hoops including an online personality questionnaire, video interview, group activity and face-to-face interview with senior team members.But at the final stage, the accounting firm hid the candidates' test scores and academic transcripts from interviewers to remove any unconscious bias ."It's a good idea because as a candidate I had a lot more to offer than just my marks," said Macquarie University student Jana Kiriazidis, one of just eight candidates out of 600 applicants who landed a law-graduate job at PwC .

    However, she concedes the practice could disadvantage people who have good marks and spent a lot of time studying.She said the process worked in her favour because she was an all-rounder: she had done an internship at Cochlear, worked as a legal assistant and was a keen soccer player.The recruitment policy also better reflected the nature of the role at PwC, she said. "It's about building relationships with clients, it's not about sitting at a desk."PwC legal partner Tim Blue said blacking out academic transcripts at the final stage of the interview helped the firm to get a good mix of candidates from diverse universities and academic disciplines.

    "We know that our people need to have excellent business and commercial acumen, not just be brilliant lawyers, and that's why we didn't want to just go with the candidates with the highest score," he said.The candidates still had to meet the minimum academic standard to get to the final stage of the interview.Under the leadership of Tony O'Malley and Mr Blue, both former King & Wood Mallesons managing partners, PwC is aggressively hiring lawyers in plans to double its legal practice over the next two years.'BLIND CV' ON THE RISE
    PwC is not the only firm that is moving towards a "blind policy" to weed out unconscious bias from the graduate recruitment process. Four years ago, KWM introduced a blind CV process which removes name, address, gender and school from the initial graduate recruitment screening process.In addition to removing unconscious bias based on high school and postcode, this has the effect of concealing the candidate's ethnicity and potential family connection to prominent lawyers.King & Wood Mallesons head of people and development Kathryn Bellion said the blind process was successful in removing an interviewer's affinity bias."This bias leads us to favour people who are similar to ourselves, for example, [those] who live in the same suburb as us, went to the same school etc. We remove this information and therefore the likelihood of affinity bias occurring.

    "Decision-making should then be more focused on the candidate's relevant experience, skills and technical ability," Ms Bellion said.The law firm uses the blind policy for graduate recruitment in some cities, but Ms Bellion said that it plans to expand it to other areas of recruitment over time.Law graduate employment levels remain at their worst on record, with nearly one in four graduates still looking for full-time work four months after graduation. Even some of the legal industry's brightest minds have said they are not pushing their children to follow their footsteps and enter the legal industry.No more than two candidates came from the same university. In contrast, when Mr Blue was a law graduate half his graduate cohort came from Sydney University and the other half from UNSW."We wanted to treat them as equal and not base the decision on what law school we [the interviewers] went to."He said it helped the firm to pick candidates who were commercially savvy.Ms Kiriazidis is among the first batch of law graduates for PwC as the big four accounting firms aggressively hire lawyers to take a chunk out of the legal services market.


    Read more: http://www.afr.com/business/legal/ac...#ixzz3ywr6Xeck
    Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook
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    (Original post by Ads20000)
    According to my mum (who's opinion on the matter was what i was referring to), it doesnt necessarily matter for training or vac schemes or even most jobs, but for very 'high-up' jobs in law and finance where SOME companies don't consider those who dont have an RG (or, at least, 'good uni') degree.
    That's absolute BS. If it does matter it will matter more at entry level than at any other point. As jneill says, when you're in the job it's performance and potential that count. Does she have any idea how performance management works in an organisation which is a completely separate thing to recruitment?
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    prestige was the #1 factor for me


    im a prestige whore, though
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    (Original post by Kvothe the arcane)
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    Cheers - was just about to do the same

    And this bit was, in my mind, possibly more significant than PwC's action: ("school" is university in this extract)

    Four years ago, KWM introduced a blind CV process which removes name, address, gender and school from the initial graduate recruitment screening process.In addition to removing unconscious bias based on high school and postcode, this has the effect of concealing the candidate's ethnicity and potential family connection to prominent lawyers. King & Wood Mallesons head of people and development Kathryn Bellion said the blind process was successful in removing an interviewer's affinity bias."This bias leads us to favour people who are similar to ourselves, for example, [those] who live in the same suburb as us, went to the same school etc. We remove this information and therefore the likelihood of affinity bias occurring."Decision-making should then be more focused on the candidate's relevant experience, skills and technical ability," Ms Bellion said. The law firm uses the blind policy for graduate recruitment in some cities, but Ms Bellion said that it plans to expand it to other areas of recruitment over time.Law graduate employment levels remain at their worst on record, with nearly one in four graduates still looking for full-time work four months after graduation. Even some of the legal industry's brightest minds have said they are not pushing their children to follow their footsteps and enter the legal industry.No more than two candidates came from the same university. In contrast, when Mr Blue was a law graduate half his graduate cohort came from Sydney University and the other half from UNSW. "We wanted to treat them as equal and not base the decision on what law school we [the interviewers] went to." He said it helped the firm to pick candidates who were commercially savvy.
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    I think you might be forgetting a small thing: confounds
    You seem to be forgetting the fact there are surveys that measure employers' intentions and preferences and on those, RG universities still win.

    They of course may prefer RG graduates because they generally have a higher ability in most everything, but this reputation formed by the graduates has in turn make it easier for RG graduates to get higher paying jobs. The question I responded to was how I made the claim that employers prefer RG graduates. When both their behaviour and intentions stated that they do prefer RG graduates, there really is no other way to argue against this.
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    (Original post by beautifulbigmacs)
    I'm not saying that what you say is one hundred per cent not true but a lot of it seems a bit generalised.

    Personally I have yet to apply for graduate jobs purely on the basis that even by my late twenties, every job I have wanted to do has just happened to be non graduate.

    I think it's very linear to work on the basis of "go to rg uni, walk into great graduate job with ease, sorted". It is my belief that no matter what the job is, sometimes it takes a killer covering letter and being mad enough to do it that gets you in the door. For example many graduate jobs require you to live away from home and this can diminish their appeal. I'm not saying graduate jobs aren't great, maybe they are, but either way it will take more than a rg uni to get someone the job on the basis that employers want to know stuff that doesn't relate: where are you based? Do you seem keen to stay with the company? Do we think we can get on with each other in the workplace etc?. A rg uni on the cv is not an invincibility cloak if you can't assure potential employers of other things.
    I never focused on graduate jobs. I focused on the employment rate as well as the salary - on both fronts, RG universities do better. They also do better on surveys eliciting preferences from employers.

    You're just desperately rationalizing this. Employers clear prefer and do prefer RG graduates, and there is no ambiguity here. So what if you need other things to be hired? Are you saying that RG graduates are generally reluctant to stay with the company? Generally not based around the company? All of the factors you mentioned have no correlation to the university you graduated from, and so can happen to anyone. On the basis of university alone, being from an RG university does help. No-one is saying you can get hired ever if you are in a coma just on the strength of your Oxford degree 30 years ago.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    You seem to be forgetting the fact there are surveys that measure employers' intentions and preferences and on those, RG universities still win.

    They of course may prefer RG graduates because they generally have a higher ability in most everything, but this reputation formed by the graduates has in turn make it easier for RG graduates to get higher paying jobs. The question I responded to was how I made the claim that employers prefer RG graduates. When both their behaviour and intentions stated that they do prefer RG graduates, there really is no other way to argue against this.
    Link to surveys? I think it's because the best universities in the country are in the RG but after the top 5 or so it's really negligible and the 'group' means nothing. Perhaps what the employers are saying is they prefer Oxbridge, ICL, LSE and UCL.

    There's way too much variation in quality within the RG for it to be anything more than arbitrary.
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    I never focused on graduate jobs. I focused on the employment rate as well as the salary - on both fronts, RG universities do better. They also do better on surveys eliciting preferences from employers.

    You're just desperately rationalizing this. Employers clear prefer and do prefer RG graduates, and there is no ambiguity here. So what if you need other things to be hired? Are you saying that RG graduates are generally reluctant to stay with the company? Generally not based around the company? All of the factors you mentioned have no correlation to the university you graduated from, and so can happen to anyone. On the basis of university alone, being from an RG university does help. No-one is saying you can get hired ever if you are in a coma just on the strength of your Oxford degree 30 years ago.
    The question is "how important is uni prestige"? Answer: somewhat, but not as much as many other factors. And it will vary by career/industry.

    /endthread
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    (Original post by Little Toy Gun)
    You seem to be forgetting the fact there are surveys that measure employers' intentions and preferences and on those, RG universities still win.

    They of course may prefer RG graduates because they generally have a higher ability in most everything, but this reputation formed by the graduates has in turn make it easier for RG graduates to get higher paying jobs. The question I responded to was how I made the claim that employers prefer RG graduates. When both their behaviour and intentions stated that they do prefer RG graduates, there really is no other way to argue against this.
    Just to add. Basically employers like good students (obvious). On average better students tend to be produced from the RG, both because it contains some of the most prestigious universities including Oxbridge and because good students are attracted to the RG at 17 when making university decisions.

    Employers target the RG and prefer students from them because it's more economical do target the places where the majority of their applicant market lies and because on average the students are better.

    It's a self perpetuating cycle that isn't driven by the designation of an arbitrary group of so called top universities but because of the type of students who tend to go to RG universities.
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    My motivation in this is not to justify my own routes and choices but to inform. I want people at a vital stage in their life to know that it is worth keeping an open mind as to what uni you go to. Both in terms of finding a course suitable for you in as many ways as possible and also in terms of knowing that if you don't get certain A level grades then you are not doomed to a life of failure. In fact, many universities are welcoming of applications from people with btecs and or nvqs. I know someone who did nvq level 3 nail services and then went on to study law at mmu. It's just really important to me to encourage young people to open their mind to a world of diverse, fascinating and rewarding opportunities because it's stuff worth knowing I feel.
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    Most Russell group universities aren't really prestigious. I would say Oxbridge for everything, Imperial for engineering, LSE for economics, UCL for neuroscience and Edinburgh for medicine. All other British universities don't fall under the category of "Prestige". Also, so much for facilities when I've heard of students in a lot of Russell group unis notably St Andrews and Warwick resorting to sitting on the floor in lecture halls because of overcrowding!
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    Prestige for post-grad that's when it matters.
 
 
 
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