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Muslims aren't the problem, Islam is Watch

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    this classification is completely arbitrary : your personal creation
    If you would like to take issue with any of it, then feel free to do so.

    and : can you find in the Quran four corresponding terms in Arabic ?
    I don't speak Arabic so therefore, I can't.

    best.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    If you would like to take issue with any of it, then feel free to do so.
    to start with, in my view "unbeliever" and "non-believer" are exactly the same thing
    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I don't speak Arabic so therefore, I can't.
    well, I know some Arabic (not much) but I can't, either
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    to start with, in my view "unbeliever" and "non-believer" are exactly the same thing
    And you are entitled to your opinion.

    well, I know some Arabic (not much) but I can't, either
    Well, that turned out to be a pretty useless cul-de-sac.

    best.
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    If a far right white skin head neo-nazi group started blowing up people in the name of Hitler, throwing homosexuals off roofs, taking sex slaves (as is written in the Quran), treating women like crap there would be no apologists excusing the neo-nazi's ideology or beliefs.
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    (Original post by vickidc18)
    If a far right white skin head neo-nazi group started blowing up people in the name of Hitler, throwing homosexuals off roofs, taking sex slaves (as is written in the Quran), treating women like crap there would be no apologists excusing the neo-nazi's ideology or beliefs.
    If denial of 6 million deaths doesn't count as "apologia", then I really don't know what will.
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    (Original post by usi227)
    Male circumcision is done for a purpose. There are, surprisingly enough, benefits to being circumcised as a male and often men can get infections caused by drops of urine remaining trapped under the urethra after relieving oneself, other issues can arise from the foreskin as well! (pardon the pun). .
    there are later inventions that solve the above problem which mohammed wasnt aware of - ie the shower.

    (Original post by usi227)
    You're right in that it is not strictly mentioned in The Quran but scholars around the world have agreed that its a must. .
    it not mentioned at all in the quran ( which was your arguement against FGM)scholars can agree and disagree whatever they want. some state FGM is islamic - base don the same principle as male circumcision - ie that it is mentioned by mohammed in sahih hadith - so both are as islamic as each other - in terms of mohammed.

    (Original post by usi227)
    Female circumcision on the other hand has NO BENEFITS. People claim that it prevents high libido but realistically, there's no evidence. This guy below summarised it nicely: .
    neither have any genuine benefits - the are both hangovers of ancient tribal traditons of the middle east that got absorbed into abrahamic faiths. both males and females were given these bits for a purpose were they not.
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    (Original post by usi227)
    Is FGM prescribed by religious law? Contrary to popular belief, FGM is not a practice prescribed in Islam.
    That's simply not true. FGM is considered mandatory in two of the schools of Islamic jurisprudence and commendable in the other two. There are hadiths talking about circumcision of females (I cited them in a post yesterday). To an extent it clearly is a cultural problem, as the majority of Muslims don't practise it and some non-Muslims do, but please don't pretend FGM has nothing to do with Islam.
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    (Original post by vickidc18)
    If a far right white skin head neo-nazi group started blowing up people in the name of Hitler, throwing homosexuals off roofs, taking sex slaves (as is written in the Quran), treating women like crap there would be no apologists excusing the neo-nazi's ideology or beliefs.
    Indeed. But the 'white' man has been made to feel guilty for his history.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    And you are entitled to your opinion.



    Well, that turned out to be a pretty useless cul-de-sac.

    best.
    Funny you regard Mariachi's interpretation of disbeliever and unbeliever as only his opinion, yet present and insist on your interpretation as being something much more worthwhile (which it most certainly is not, btw). Disbeliever and unbeliever are the same thing, end of. QE2 presented the dictionary definitions, and how they are merely synonyms. Is that interpretation only the dictionary's 'opinion' too?

    I've seen people post that your tactic of choice is to be extremely pedantic as to go off-topic, can definitely see what they mean. Your username is not befitting of your character.
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    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    The quran tell them HOW to punish people

    Wouldn't it be better if the quran didn't say this was the correct way to punish someone for 'certain' crimes?
    If it did then people would still do it anyway.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    (Original post by QE2)
    "Disbeliever" - Synonyms; Nonbeliever, Unbeliever.
    There. That's put that to bed. Thanks are not necessary.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/disbeliever
    But still offered

    He still won't get it though
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    (Original post by samzy21)
    If it did then people would still do it anyway.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If it did?

    Did you not know this is the case?

    But as it is the case how can you claim in this instance they are misinterpreting the quran given they are doing what it says.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    And you are entitled to your opinion.



    Well, that turned out to be a pretty useless cul-de-sac.

    best.
    You need a better dictionary
    disbelieverˌdɪsbɪˈliːvə(r)/nounnoun: disbeliever; plural noun: disbelievers
    1. a person who refuses to believe something or who lacks religious faith."she intends to prove the disbelievers wrong"synonyms:unbeliever, non-believer, atheist, non-theist, irreligionist, nihilist; More
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    It's both actually. The followers of the religion maketh the religion. Without the believers and followers, it's just words on a page. Outdated scriptures from a bygone age.
    But when people not only believe in it but follow it and enforce it, then they are giving it life, the good and the bad.

    It's all nonsense, but the followers of that religion are not without blame. The same goes for any religion, period.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    It's both actually. The followers of the religion maketh the religion. Without he believera and followers, it's just words kn a oage. Outdated scriptures from a bygone age.
    But when people not only believe in it but follow it and enforce it, then they are giving it life, the good and the bad.

    It's all nonsense, but the followers of that religion are not without blame. The same goes for any religion, period.
    Quite

    the words given them drive and the reasoning to commit atrocities but I suspect if they didn't have these words they would find others to continue the barbarity
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    (Original post by samzy21)
    If it did then people would still do it anyway.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Ah, the old "there's no point in having rules that people will break" argument (which is, apparently, why Allah didn't prohibit slavery, BTW).

    Unfortunately, this position fundamentally defeats the whole purpose of the Quran.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    But when people not only believe in it but follow it and enforce it, then they are giving it life, the good and the bad.
    What sense is to believe in script, but not follow its clear instructions?
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    (Original post by sparkletoo)
    Funny you regard Mariachi's interpretation of disbeliever and unbeliever as only his opinion, yet present and insist on your interpretation as being something much more worthwhile (which it most certainly is not, btw). Disbeliever and unbeliever are the same thing, end of. QE2 presented the dictionary definitions, and how they are merely synonyms. Is that interpretation only the dictionary's 'opinion' too?
    Well of course his interpretation of the relationship between disbeliever/unbeliever vis-a-vis Quran is an opinion, for he regards both as synonyms.

    I wouldn't disagree with someone wanting to hold such an opinion.

    I've explained how I am, as well as the dictionary and the definitions are, able to differentiate between a disbeliever, unbeliever, non-believer and believer, with reference to examples/analogies and if other people are unwilling to do that, then that's not really my issue.

    I've seen people post that your tactic of choice is to be extremely pedantic as to go off-topic, can definitely see what they mean. Your username is not befitting of your character.
    I'm speculating here, so correct me if I am wrong, but I was extremely curious that 4 or so people called me up on that disbeliever =/= non-believer thing (which I considered was a benign point at best) but then I noticed a common concept that most of them belonged to the TSR Ex-Muslim Society, who one presumes has a vested interest in trying to make something that they firmly disagree with, look as "harmful" to others as possible, and quite possibly resort to cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias when it suits them.

    I get it. I do the same thing when it comes to political allegiance but what I will never stoop down to, is to be so intellectually dishonest that I purposefully misrepresent the status of a large body of people and continually portray them as something that they are not.

    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    You need a better dictionarydisbelieverˌdɪsbɪˈ liːvə(r)/nounnoun: disbeliever; plural noun: disbelievers
    1. a person who refuses to believe something or who lacks religious faith."she intends to prove the disbelievers wrong"synonyms:unbeliever, non-believer, atheist, non-theist, irreligionist, nihilist; More
    I have no issue with you using synonyms but the research you presented was for non-believers, not disbelievers.

    I have managed to differentiate, quite successfully, between a non-believer, believer, disbeliever and unbeliever but if you are unwilling to, then that's your issue.

    You've made your point, I've countered it and that's the end of that.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)

    I have managed to differentiate, quite successfully,
    Only according to your own opinion.
 
 
 
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