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Muslims aren't the problem, Islam is Watch

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    (Original post by Tee99)
    In my opinion, I think it's the Muslims that are at fault (not the whole muslim community, I'm talking about terrorist like ISIS, Al-Qaida and extremists) and Islam is not because people like them are twisting the religion to fit their own agendas and due to media representation, people think that Islam promotes terrorism but it doesn't at all (I study the Quran). If these "Muslim" terrorists had read the Quran they wouldn't exist, because clearly they are misguided - think about, most of the terrorist groups come from poverty or where education isn't implemented correctly, therefore majority are illiterate and have been told about Islam from someone else's wrong perspective.
    Sure you do, cupcake.
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    (Original post by Zainabr17)
    That is what i just said. We don't know the real ideology. We don't hold enough knowledge. If you understand the Quran and the teachings of Mohammad (Peace Be Upon Him), you might not have the same views.
    Having studied Islam from Islamic sources, the dology is pretty clear. The details of how to put that into practice are also pretty clear.

    I've tried to study it, and I saw that it teaches humans to believe in one God and Mohammad (PBUH) as His last Prophet/Messenger. They're asked to worship the one God (Allah) and to fulfill the rights of people and live in peace.
    It is quite clear from the Quran, sunnah and associated tafsir, that such a concept (along with "innocent" ) only actually applies to those who submit to Islam. Those who oppose it are to be treated very differently, and essentially the only way to avoid death is to submit or leave Muslim controlled lands.

    And it also says "there is NO compulsion in religion (Islam)". You can't force someone to become a Muslims,
    It also says that Muslims are commanded to "fight until all religion is for Allah and there is no more disbeief". This is confirmed in the sunnah and tafsir. If there is no compulsion, why did Muhammad say that those who leave Islam should be killed? Why did Ibn Kathir explain that 9:5 meant that disbelievers had "no choice but to accept Islam or die"?

    And who kills an innocent life obeys God, and doesn't get to enter Paradise.
    Ah, the old 5:32 chestnut!
    That verse clearly states that it is permitted to kill those guilty of "fasad" (spreading mischief). The next verse then goes on to explain that all those who "oppose, contradict and disbelieve" may also be killed (according to Ibn Kathir).

    Aren't the ISIS killings Muslims? aren't the Taliban killing Muslims?
    Just as most "moderate" Muslims claim that ISIS are "not Muslims", ISIS consider anyone who opposes their khalifa to be "not Muslims". And unlike most moderates, they take the Quran's and sunnah's instructions on what to do with such apostates, very seriously.

    Have a look at the situation in Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. Those are just militant groups who are AGAINST THE WHOLE WORLD. I don't think we should use this just as an excuse to blame and ridicule Islam, but WE SHOULD GET TOGETHER and fight against them, putting aside the differences.
    It is also about time that the majority of Muslims accepted what it is about Islam that allows, or even encourages, such behaviour.
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    (Original post by luminarychild)
    Because there are definitely not any non muslims who aren't barbaric or medieval *sarcasm*
    I would like you to point out any other group that still thinks that apostasy and adultery actually should be punished by death.

    Also, claiming that there are other people as bad as you does not make your behaviour any better!
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    (Original post by luminarychild)
    Yes because more people are influenced to think bashing is ok,
    So you think that the disbeliever bashing in the Quran is a bad thing and must lead to violence against disbelievers.

    You may not bash muslims personally but the majority of people with these views do. Think logically here, not everything works out in the way that you have stated.
    What?, you think that the majority of people who are critical of Islam actually go out and physically attack Muslims?

    Wow!
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    (Original post by QE2)
    The behaviour of most people (of all beliefs) is shaped by a combination of many things, not least inherent empathy, the Golden Rule and the rule of law. It is interesting to note that in societies where more literal interpretations of ideologies are implemented, personal freedoms are eroded, and wherever they are given absolute authority, civilisation breaks down.
    You literally have no life. You spend hours upon hours on TSR constantly hating on Islam; your obsession is honestly concerning. With all due respect (if there is any), get a life.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Where did I say there was anything wrong with it? Speaks volumes about what kind of person you are that you're getting defensive about your freedom to mock others.
    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    If you're mocking an ideology practiced or believed by people then you mock the people.
    You've been supplied with the riddles of life, death and creation. Why do you get all huffy and defensive when a bunch of teenagers on a forum mock your religion? Says something about your character, really.
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    You literally have no life. You spend hours upon hours on TSR constantly hating on Islam; your obsession is honestly concerning. With all due respect (if there is any), get a life.
    My life, or lack of it, has nothing to do with your inability to come up with a cogent defence for your barbaric and medieval beliefs.

    I always find it ironic when people who devote their entire lives to an unpleasant delusion, advise others to "get a life"!
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    religion isn't at fault. its people complaining about these things
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    (Original post by QE2)
    My life, or lack of it, has nothing to do with your inability to come up with a cogent defence for your barbaric and medieval beliefs.

    I always find it ironic when people who devote their entire lives to an unpleasant delusion, advise others to "get a life"!
    If we were to rebuttal every single one of your hateful remarks, we wouldn't have time to live our lives. We'd be spending every minute of it on TSR replying to you!

    Now do you see what I mean by "Get a life"?
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    If we were to rebuttal every single one of your hateful remarks, we wouldn't have time to live our lives. We'd be spending every minute of it on TSR replying to you!

    Now do you see what I mean by "Get a life"?
    I see exactly what you mean, yes. You mean you have no comeback and no rebuttal to the points being made, hence you lash out in the only way you can with shrieks of 'get a life, hater!' Transparent and utterly feeble. If you don't want to debate on TSR, no-one's forcing you to be here.
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    If we were to rebuttal every single one of your hateful remarks, we wouldn't have time to live our lives. We'd be spending every minute of it on TSR replying to you!
    OK.
    First, show one of my "hateful remarks", explaining why it is hateful.

    Then rebut it.

    Just one. Then you can get back to your oh so worthwhile and interesting life, and your wonderful, inclusive, peaceful beliefs.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    You really seem to have an issue with people criticising Islam. Why is that?
    Unfortunately you've joined the party a bit too late, no longer interested in this thread.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Unfortunately you've joined the party a bit too late, no longer interested in this thread.
    LOL. First we have 'get a life, hater' now we get 'I'm no longer interested in the thread'. Could you people be any more transparent and obvious that you have no response and no rebuttal? It's hilarious.
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    LOL. First we have 'get a life, hater' now we get 'I'm no longer interested in the thread'. Could you people be any more transparent and obvious that you have no response and no rebuttal? It's hilarious.
    Or maybe I'm not in the mood to debate with people who already have their minds made up? My initial post in here wasn't even to start a debate, I made an observation then your hater friends tried to start an argument which I wasn't interested in.

    Regardless, you atheists believe you're so right and you shouldn't be afraid of anything since you won't be held accountable, which baffles me as to why you spend your days arguing online with strangers. Bit petty, no?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    OK.
    First, show one of my "hateful remarks", explaining why it is hateful.

    Then rebut it.

    Just one. Then you can get back to your oh so worthwhile and interesting life, and your wonderful, inclusive, peaceful beliefs.
    I have! In the past! I remember your username; it's very easy to remember. It went on forever because your mind is hellbent on attempting to smear the religion of Islam. Seriously dude, what do you work as/study?
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Or maybe I'm not in the mood to debate with people who already have their minds made up? My initial post in here wasn't even to start a debate, I made an observation then your hater friends tried to start an argument which I wasn't interested in.

    Regardless, you atheists believe you're so right and you shouldn't be afraid of anything since you won't be held accountable, which baffles me as to why you spend your days arguing online with strangers. Bit petty, no?
    My 'hater friends'. ROFL. Who do we hate exactly? Can you cite some posts where we 'hate' people as evidence for your statement? Cheers.

    Muslims believe that the quran is perfect and Islam is perfect and allah is perfect and Muhammad is a perfect role model, yet we are the ones who 'already have our minds made up'? As I said in a previous post, I used to think Islam was benign and peaceful till I actually read the quran and hadiths and the kind of frighteningly barbaric opinions I've often seen on TSR. It was that that convinced me that Islam is (or can be) a nasty, dangerous ideology. My mind was not already made up, I assure you.

    This is a debate forum. If you think that debating and arguing is a 'bit petty', I suggest you retreat back to the comforting echo chamber of the ISOC and their endless mashallahing and alhamdulillhahing. Not that the members of ISOC already have their minds made up on the topic of Islam, of course. Nooooo. But apparently having your mind already made up about the wonderfulness of Islam is fine with you.
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    I have! In the past! I remember your username; it's very easy to remember. It went on forever because your mind is hellbent on attempting to smear the religion of Islam. Seriously dude, what do you work as/study?
    Neither he nor anyone else here has any need to 'smear the religion of Islam'. You do that yourself with your breezy comments about how apostates from Islam deserve to be killed and how people deserve to have rocks thrown at their heads until they die for having sex.
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    My 'hater friends'. ROFL. Who do we hate exactly? Can you cite some posts where we 'hate' people as evidence for your statement? Cheers.

    Muslims believe that the quran is perfect and Islam is perfect and allah is perfect and Muhammad is a perfect role model, yet we are the ones who 'already have our minds made up'? As I said in a previous post, I used to think Islam was benign and peaceful till I actually read the quran and hadiths and the kind of frighteningly barbaric opinions I've often seen on TSR. It was that that convinced me that Islam is (or can be) a nasty, dangerous ideology. My mind was not already made up, I assure you.

    This is a debate forum. If you think that debating and arguing is a 'bit petty', I suggest you retreat back to the comforting echo chamber of the ISOC and their endless mashallahing and alhamdulillhahing. Not that the members of ISOC already have their minds made up on the topic of Islam, of course. Nooooo. But apparently having your mind already made up about the wonderfulness of Islam is fine with you.
    Erm, congratulations? Not sure what you want me to say here. I'm sorry you're a little misguided and seem to think Islam is 'barbaric' but I hope you find the truth one day.✌
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    Neither he nor anyone else here has any need to 'smear the religion of Islam'. You do that yourself with your breezy comments about how apostates from Islam deserve to be killed and how people deserve to have rocks thrown at their heads until they die for having sex.
    Then if we do that ourselves, what is the point of people like you commenting? Because you want to fuel and empower the narrative against Islam. Just admit that.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Erm, congratulations? Not sure what you want me to say here. I'm sorry you're a little misguided and seem to think Islam is 'barbaric' but I hope you find the truth one day.✌
    I've already found the the truth, thanks. Islam is (or at its worst can be) a barbaric, outdated, misogynist, patriarchal, nastily bigoted and supremacist ideology which I dislike intensely and which should have stayed in the 7th century where it belongs, and even if I live to be 120 years old I assure you that I will never change my opinion on that. And I don't appreciate your patronising (and entirely wrong) assumption that I'm misguided.
 
 
 
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