Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Bulking up. Tips for nutrition and routines? Watch

Announcements
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    I know, but I asked for YOUR answer.
    Which is why you're a big joke. Why would you want to know? I've been lifting for about six months. I'm not an expert by any means, but I sure know you must not wait more than a couple of minutes between each set, a common mistake many beginners, at least at my gym, do.
    • TSR Support Team
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by krs141)
    I'm 19 and at 140 so obviously want to bulk and become more toned. Is it possible to get to a good level in the next 7 months. I want to really research and make sure i'm doing the right form/right shake e.t.c. Quite skinny so there is a big reason too, what routine would you suggest? I'm considering going four times a week, isolating chest/back, shoulders/arms, legs and a mixed day. Want to go slowly and build up, any tips/advice?
    The FAQ is linked. For your own good read it. The advice in here is some of the worst I've come across in my 18 months being the ST for this forum lol :lol:

    (Original post by Adrono)
    Train until failure, constantly. Prefer good form over too much weight, always, but at the same time remember that you must, again, do your sets until failure. About food, well, the harder you'll train and the more you'll get hungry; just est clean and good food like pasta and meat (prefer chicken and similar over red meat though, that can't be eaten everyday). Really, just train train and eat eat, that's my best advice - don't overthink plans. You can see results in the first two months. I'm 19, I was skinny and gained about 7 kg's since last august, and it's practically all lean muscle. Make pull ups become one of your favourite excercises, too .
    P.s I hope you're thinking of going to an actual gym and not just doing it by yourself.
    Things wrong with your post
    - training to absolute failure
    - Eating clean being a thing

    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Why?

    My advice is to keep it numerical. Count calories. IIFYM calculator. It takes a few minutes to count calories every day, and you can adjust for your weight gain so your bulking doesn't stagnate, ultimately giving you more out of your training, eating and recovery.

    Compound movements, keep it simple and fun. Bulking is the best part of training. Enjoy it.
    :yy:

    (Original post by hezzlington)
    What are the benefits of training to failure, 'constantly'?

    Seems like a quick way to absolutely exhaust yourself. Would be incredibly difficult to train like this if you play a sport. There is no need for a new trainee (I assume new) to train to failure all the time, especially on the big movements.
    :yy:
    (Original post by Adrono)
    How are you supposed, exactly, to build muscle if you don't stress it enough to allow it do so? That's the basics. If you do 10 reps but you could still do 10 more then your training is pointless. As soon as you learn the form you should indeed train to failure. Again, your last rep has to be the last you can do. You must feel the burn, one would say. That is if you want results.
    I obviously don't mean you should ****ing collapse in the gym. You may have misunderstood me.
    You don't have to fail to gain muscle. Progressive overload; not absolute failure

    (Original post by hezzlington)
    You can do stress the muscle adequately without going to failure. Attempting to achieve muscle failure all the time is potentially dangerous advice, be careful.

    It takes thousands of reps and many months - years of lifting and thinking about lifting to learn the form that is most appropriate to your body. You can build a hulk of muscle in the mean time

    You don't have to feel any burn to get good results. Take heavy squats or deadlifts to absolute failure 3x a week and I'd bet on them collapsing lol.
    You'd die doing absolute failure that often

    (Original post by krs141)
    Cheers mate, yeah I go to a really nice gym got pretty much everything I need. What routine should I start with, best to isolate each part of the body for each day? What about cardio too. I do want to bulk up and become a bit more toned but yeah will work hard.
    You shouldn't isolate each bodypart everyday. It's not needed and you'll be wasting your time. Read the FAQ

    (Original post by hezzlington)
    I didn't misunderstand you.

    I'm saying that you do not at all, ever, have to go to failure to achieve good results, or results at all for that matter. Training to failure for a beginner is risky business when motor patterns are not ingrained and form is usually bad anyway.

    Why is deadlifting and squatting 3x a week bad..?
    :yy: Good posting
    (Original post by Adrono)
    Listen to the trainer, he'll explain you best, if it's a good gym. They'll usually make you start without isolating the muscles and only after one or two months you'll begin training with the so called splits.

    My current split is: chest + biceps; back + triceps; legs + shoulders. I'm comfortable with it. It's not a huge deal though; again, don't overthink plans: I like this split, which is the one my instructor gave me anyways, as I can pump the biceps more during chest day as they're already involved a lot in back excercises. Same goes for triceps and chest excercises.

    Regarding cardio, it's good to do it: personally, I like to go running in the park on sundays and whenever I get free time and I'm not going to the gym. I only use the cardio machines at the gym to warm up before training.
    Things you need to do
    - Learn that trainers know nothing
    - That you legit know very little about this endevour

    (Original post by Adrono)
    Then I have no idea where you're coming from. Again, it's the basics of muscle growth to stress your muscle enough. And if you don't train until failure it simply won't, ever, be stressed as much as it could be. I've stated clearly that you must learn good form first however, maybe you didn't read that. And who on earth squats 3x a week? Well I guess that could be reasonable, somehow, but not for me as I do another sport too and I'm active all week.
    A lot of people squat 3x a week. People into aesthetic and strength goals alike. Training bodyparts >once a week is better in terms of your use of time and ability to progress
    (Original post by krs141)
    Train as in what way. Yeah I know form is most important, just want to figure out what kind of routine I set for myself. Properly warm up?
    One of the ones in the FAQA proper warm up - some active stretching and low weights. So for instance; if you're squatting 50kilos. Start with 20 for 10 reps, 30 for 5, 40 for between 3 and 5. 45 for 1 and then your sets at 50
    (Original post by Adrono)
    What you mean train in what way? Anyways, I didn't intend to give you much advice on specific routines etc. as I believe your gym trainer should help you exhaustively with that.Warming up, yes, it's important. Leg day? Hit the cardio machines for at least 5 minutes before. At least. About 5 is usually fine for me though. You wanna do some minutes on the rowing machine if you have one in your gym as well before every training - at least that's what I do.I suggest you ask your trainer for shoulder warm up exercises as well, if he doesn't give you any. They're very important. If you ever feel pain whilst training your shoulders, stop and ask for advice. I ended up with a small inflammation on both my shoulders; nothing serious, but it's always best to avoid this sort of problems, especially with such a delicate part of your body (shoulders are more exposed to injuries).Warm up before, but do stretching after too . It's very useful.And please don't start taking protein shakes randomly. At least ask for some professional advice before doing that. I personally don't think there's the need to, absolutely not at beginners level, I don't see the point; just eat a lot and make sure your food has nice protein and carb intakes.
    This is painful to read
    (Original post by Adrono)
    lol bro of course you do need to consult the trainer. He'll direct your training. And yes that's what I mean by trainer :P.
    Trainers arguably have zero knowledge. Most qualifications out there are mickey mouse
    (Original post by Adrono)
    Because he doesn't need them. He's a beginner. And I've never contested any of that besides having to put hard work into doing your reps, which is the basics of the damn muscle growth, again. This discussion is pointless as it seems that you just like to boost yourself with nonsense. And I'm serious, average people train legs once a week, including myself. If you do squat 3x a week, good for you - don't pretend it's a common split though.
    Most people train bodyparts once a week. However, most people are really weak and look like ****, so that doesn't mean much
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hezzlington)
    I didn't say there was anything wrong with squatting once a week. A novice doesn't need to split the body up into days. For example monday - chest, tuesday - shoulders etc.
    Personally, I started to split after one-two months. That's a personal matter and it's up to the trainer as well. That's exactly the reason why I didn't feel like any specific advice would benefit him more than actually going to the gym and following the trainer's guide.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    You sure look like you know your stuff, Cucumber, and your FAQ's look great, but I don't agree with you on the fact that the trainers know nothing. All I did on this thread was give him motivation and general advice, as I believe the best thing he can do is hit the gym and follow the trainer's guide - getting informed on the internet as a novice isn't gonna help. And that's still my best advice: go to the gym, don't overthink plans and protein shakes. Those can also come later. Good training OP.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by krs141)
    I'm 19 and at 140 so obviously want to bulk and become more toned. Is it possible to get to a good level in the next 7 months. I want to really research and make sure i'm doing the right form/right shake e.t.c. Quite skinny so there is a big reason too, what routine would you suggest? I'm considering going four times a week, isolating chest/back, shoulders/arms, legs and a mixed day. Want to go slowly and build up, any tips/advice?
    Eat a lot, eat often and train a lot its not rocket science. #whateverittakes #5percent
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Adrono)
    Which is why you're a big joke. Why would you want to know? I've been lifting for about six months. I'm not an expert by any means, but I sure know you must not wait more than a couple of minutes between each set, a common mistake many beginners, at least at my gym, do.
    Well, I find it a joke that you run around telling everyone they're wrong when you're no expert, which was clear from your posts anyhow tbh, I was just curious as to your idea of what was too long.

    I have no idea where you got the idea that more than two minutes is too long, but you're wrong. How much rest you take is dependant on the style of training. If you're always going to failure (which btw is a preferance, not a requirement - intensity vs volume balance is infinitely more important) then you're gonna benefit more from resting at LEAST two minutes, whereas if you're avoiding failure and going for volume then you'll benefit from shorter rests.
    Studies suggest that roughly 3 minutes between sets produces the best gains http://www.soheefit.com/longer-rest/

    As for frequency of certain exercises, the upper/lower split is very popular and has you training each bodypart twice a week. Worked well for me over the past few years.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    Well, I find it a joke that you run around telling everyone they're wrong when you're no expert, which was clear from your posts anyhow tbh, I was just curious as to your idea of what was too long.

    I have no idea where you got the idea that more than two minutes is too long, but you're wrong. How much rest you take is dependant on the style of training. If you're always going to failure (which btw is a preferance, not a requirement - intensity vs volume balance is infinitely more important) then you're gonna benefit more from resting at LEAST two minutes, whereas if you're avoiding failure and going for volume then you'll benefit from shorter rests.
    Studies suggest that roughly 3 minutes between sets produces the best gains http://www.soheefit.com/longer-rest/

    As for frequency of certain exercises, the upper/lower split is very popular and has you training each bodypart twice a week. Worked well for me over the past few years.
    That's an interesting post, however, I've never declared to be an expert and never pretended to give advice that specific regarding resting time. I feel like none actually read my posts. Personally, mine goes from one to three minutes. It's subjective. What do you mean by "going for volume" in contrast to training to failure? I'm not english so I'm not that keen on the terminology. Are you talking about weight loads?
    • TSR Support Team
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    I'd subscribe to what Woody said - to the train everything at least twice a week and only in certain circumstances train it more than three
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Adrono)
    That's an interesting post, however, I've never declared to be an expert and never pretended to give advice that specific regarding resting time. I feel like none actually read my posts. Personally, mine goes from one to three minutes. It's subjective. What do you mean by "going for volume" in contrast to training to failure? I'm not english so I'm not that keen on the terminology. Are you talking about weight loads?
    You clearly said two minutes is too long.

    Volume, in short, is the number of sets per workout.
    RPE, i.e. Rate of Perceived Exertion, basically means how close to failure you train, with 10/10 meaning total muscular failure.
    Training with a high RPE or high relative intensity on your worksets means you'd generally train at relatively low volume, whereas a 40 set workout might be perceived as overtraining but when performed as straight-across sets, short rests and avoiding failure, it becomes very manageable.

    Whether a program will be effective or not depends on how these factors are applied as well as how progressive overload is factored in. I've made superb gains training 12 sets per workout (ramping up to a heavy 6-8 to total failure, 3 minute rests) as my main approach, whereas conversely I've made great gains performing 48 sets per workout, 8 sets of 8 reps per exercise, same weight across all sets avoiding failure and 30 second rests between sets. If the volume:intensity balance is good, as is the exercise selection, it'll work, but beginbers and intermediates are advised to go for a middle of the road approach.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    You clearly said two minutes is too long.

    Volume, in short, is the number of sets per workout.
    RPE, i.e. Rate of Perceived Exertion, basically means how close to failure you train, with 10/10 meaning total muscular failure.
    Training with a high RPE or low relative intensity on your worksets means you'd generally train at relatively low volume, whereas a 40 set workout might be perceived as overtraining but when performed as straight-across sets, short rests and avoiding failure, it becomes very manageable.

    Whether a program will be effective or not depends on how these factors are applied as well as how progressive overload is factored in. I've made superb gains training 12 sets per workout (ramping up to a heavy 6-8 to total failure, 3 minute rests) as my main approach, whereas conversely I've made great gains performing 48 sets per workout, 8 sets of 8 reps per exercise, same weight across all sets avoiding failure and 30 second rests between sets. If the volume:intensity balance is good, as is the exercise selection, it'll work, but beginbers and intermediates are advised to go for a middle of the road approach.
    I see, thanks for the useful answer. By the way, I've indeed said it, but only meant it as a general rule and not as a specific scientific advice lol.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    I'd subscribe to what Woody said - to the train everything at least twice a week and only in certain circumstances train it more than three
    I'd be curious to know which part of my paragraph was "painful to read" by the way. You always learn something new. I know there's more that could be done for warming up, but I've personally never investigated it into depth.
    • TSR Support Team
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Adrono)
    I'd be curious to know which part of my paragraph was "painful to read" by the way. You always learn something new. I know there's more that could be done for warming up, but I've personally never investigated it into depth.
    What you mean train in what way? Anyways, I didn't intend to give you much advice on specific routines etc.

    You back tracked here

    as I believe your gym trainer should help you exhaustively with that.
    You don't need a trainer

    Warming up, yes, it's important. Leg day? Hit the cardio machines for at least 5 minutes before. At least. About 5 is usually fine for me though. You wanna do some minutes on the rowing machine if you have one in your gym as well before every training - at least that's what I do.I suggest you ask your trainer for shoulder warm up exercises as well, if he doesn't give you any.
    That's fine

    They're very important. If you ever feel pain whilst training your shoulders, stop and ask for advice. I ended up with a small inflammation on both my shoulders; nothing serious, but it's always best to avoid this sort of problems, especially with such a delicate part of your body (shoulders are more exposed to injuries).Warm up before, but do stretching after too . It's veryuseful.And please don't start taking protein shakes randomly.
    The concept of protein shakes being taken randomly

    At least ask for some professional advice before doing that.
    You don't need professional advice for shakes

    I personally don't think there's the need to, absolutely not at beginners level, I don't see the point; just eat a lot and make sure your food has nice protein and carb intakes
    A debatable point

    Das it
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    What you mean train in what way? Anyways, I didn't intend to give you much advice on specific routines etc.You back tracked hereas I believe your gym trainer should help you exhaustively with that.You don't need a trainerWarming up, yes, it's important. Leg day? Hit the cardio machines for at least 5 minutes before. At least. About 5 is usually fine for me though. You wanna do some minutes on the rowing machine if you have one in your gym as well before every training - at least that's what I do.I suggest you ask your trainer for shoulder warm up exercises as well, if he doesn't give you any.That's fineThey're very important. If you ever feel pain whilst training your shoulders, stop and ask for advice. I ended up with a small inflammation on both my shoulders; nothing serious, but it's always best to avoid this sort of problems, especially with such a delicate part of your body (shoulders are more exposed to injuries).Warm up before, but do stretching after too . It's veryuseful.And please don't start taking protein shakes randomly.The concept of protein shakes being taken randomlyAt least ask for some professional advice before doing that.You don't need professional advice for shakesI personally don't think there's the need to, absolutely not at beginners level, I don't see the point; just eat a lot and make sure your food has nice protein and carb intakesA debatable pointDas it
    "You back tracked" made me lol, as I never did, considering my best advice was to eat and train hard each set. But yeah, if you'd like to think so :biggrin:. Then you might have noticed my personal stance on protein shakes, which comes from personal experience. I made great gains, at least compared to the average, and all I needed was food - not shakes. It's debatable, yes, but again, I don't think it's advisable for a novice, and my medic advised against it, reason for which I sugested a deeper research on the topic. Peace.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Adrono;[url="tel:62427937")
    62427937[/url]]I'd be curious to know which part of my paragraph was "painful to read" by the way. You always learn something new. I know there's more that could be done for warming up, but I've personally never investigated it into depth.
    With all due respect bro (i know you meant well), you simply don't know enough yet to give advice to this guy....

    I reckon a 'trainer' has told you most of this and you are simply regurgitating it. If it was good advice to begin with then you'd get away with that but when it's not very good to begin with it's just a car crash.


    OP - Cucumber and Woody have saved you.
    Either do a routine such as in the FAQ or go upper/lower split. Have a read for yourself and decide. You'll make gains on either. Progressive overload. Eat 250 calories above maintenance per day (get the app myfitnesspal to track calories). Bulk for several months...

    That is it.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Angry Cucumber has it right.

    Also: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/

    Thank me later, OP
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Unistudent77)
    With all due respect bro (i know you meant well), you simply don't know enough yet to give advice to this guy....

    I reckon a 'trainer' has told you most of this and you are simply regurgitating it. If it was good advice to begin with then you'd get away with that but when it's not very good to begin with it's just a car crash.


    OP - Cucumber and Woody have saved you.
    Either do a routine such as in the FAQ or go upper/lower split. Have a read for yourself and decide. You'll make gains on either. Progressive overload. Eat 250 calories above maintenance per day (get the app myfitnesspal to track calories). Bulk for several months...

    That is it.
    But I didn't? lol, all I said was basically hit the gym and ask the trainer, then stick to the basics of training hard and constantly and eating lots. I don't consider it that useful to overthink plans and numbers, posting on a forum and stuff, just that. Besides, it's the instructor's job to explain you those. If you all had a bad experiece with gym trainers, I'm sorry for you, but I do know competent ones, and I do follow their advices.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    Things can get really confusing when starting out in the gym, there is just so much information out there (mostly conflicting) as to what is best/ideal for muscle and strength gain. It can often become overwhelming and you see many people go years with little to no progress due to following some really bad and scientifically unsound advice.

    My little piece of advice: KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid)

    Progressive overload and a moderate kcal surplus. Hit pro and fat minimums, track calories and macros (IIFYM/flexible dieting). Years of no tracking and simply "eating clean" didn't get me very far. As soon as I started tracking my intake, BOOM. Visual results galore.

    But why listen to me? I'm just another internet armchair fitness guru...
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Adrono;[url="tel:62428985")
    62428985[/url]]But I didn't? lol, all I said was basically hit the gym and ask the trainer, then stick to the basics of training hard and constantly and eating lots. I don't consider it that useful to overthink plans and numbers, posting on a forum and stuff, just that. Besides, it's the instructor's job to explain you those. If you all had a bad experiece with gym trainers, I'm sorry for you, but I do know competent ones, and I do follow their advices.
    Well you did... But we are going round in circles here.
    It isn't that difficult, just misinformation gets banded about and clouds the water.

    You DO NOT need a PT/trainer/instructor.

    The guys on here know more than most PTs.
    Some are ok, some are not. You can learn all you need to without them.
    End of discussion. I'm not sure how i can make this any clearer...
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Unistudent77)
    Well you did... But we are going round in circles here.
    It isn't that difficult, just misinformation gets banded about and clouds the water.

    You DO NOT need a PT/trainer/instructor.

    The guys on here know more than most PTs.
    Some are ok, some are not. You can learn all you need to without them.
    End of discussion. I'm not sure how i can make this any clearer...
    I didn't the way you are actually criticizing it, I've said nothing wrong: just the basics, with a personal stance on numbers and plans - you should re-read. And I disagree, but I see it is pointless to further discuss this. Peace.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    "Eating lots" had me putting on copious amounts of adipose tissue...and on a "trainers" advice!
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Should Spain allow Catalonia to declare independence?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.