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For all of those who think Pep will get found out in the PL Watch

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    Friendly reminder that John Stones was £50mil.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    If it's the players that are key, Chelsea shouldn't be top so your point is nonsense. Unless of course you're going to argue that Luiz, Cahill, Moses, Alonso and Pedro are world class title winners. It's only when Conte changed the system to the 3-4-3 that Chelsea emerged as title contenders.
    Lol no. I am not saying certain players are not more comfortable in different systems or that certain tactics are not effective against certain tactics. I am saying it is neglible to the quality of players in said squad.

    Swap Hazard for for Modus Barrow and Costa for Charlie Austin and Chelsea arent rolling top of the league
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    No he needs the best players for his style.

    I think Bayern had a better squad(note squad, not first team although there wasn't much different) than Barcelona, Atlético or Real Madrid from 2013-16 e.g. but he couldn't use it as well.

    So whats so great about a managers style when its only good if you have the best players? Give fat Sam the best players he will win titles just like Pep or Jose or Klopp or whoever. Good players >>> Style
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    This is literally the only comment you can ever think of. **** banter, **** username, **** posts and probably have a **** life.


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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    So whats so great about a managers style when its only good if you have the best players? Give fat Sam the best players he will win titles just like Pep or Jose or Klopp or whoever. Good players >>> Style
    Did Leicester have the best players last season?

    Did Portugal have the best players at the Euros?

    According to your logic, Barcelona and Spain should be winning every title there is all the time.
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    The top two Spanish clubs sack every manager that doesn't bring them trophies end - of - season like I said. Barca are a bit less ruthless by not wielding the axe mid-season, but then again with the resources at their disposal the least they expect from any manager is the domestic or European title.
    Pep is standing out from other recent barca managers because he outlasted them by winning more trophies. He chose to come to a more competitive league with opposition more suited to stopping passing football, that must be why it isn't such a breeze for him...
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    Did Leicester have the best players last season?

    Did Portugal have the best players at the Euros?

    According to your logic, Barcelona and Spain should be winning every title there is all the time.
    I dont think you understand what variance is.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I dont think you understand what variance is.
    Except its been proven time and time again having the best players doesn't mean anything unless you have the right manager directing them. You either must be an idiot or simply dont watch a lot of football to suggest otherwise.
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    Except its been proven time and time again having the best players doesn't mean anything unless you have the right manager directing them. You either must be an idiot or simply dont watch a lot of football to suggest otherwise.
    ahahaha proven where?
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    ahahaha proven where?
    Uhhm Spain for most of the past few decades...

    France in the latest Euro's and indeed the past few years.

    Man City and Chelsea last season.

    United so far this season.

    Bayern so far this season.

    Psg so far this season.

    Barcelona and Bayern in the CL last season.

    and so on and so forth.

    These are the teams with either the best of one of the best squads in their respective competitions and are either underperforming now or have been consistently for a few years.

    Chelsea is the perfect example. Conte has completely turned that team around from last season with virtually the same squad.
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    Uhhm Spain for most of the past few decades...

    France in the latest Euro's and indeed the past few years.

    Man City and Chelsea last season.

    United so far this season.

    Bayern so far this season.

    Psg so far this season.

    Barcelona and Bayern in the CL last season.

    and so on and so forth.

    These are the teams with either the best of one of the best squads in their respective competitions and are either underperforming now or have been consistently for a few years.

    Chelsea is the perfect example. Conte has completely turned that team around from last season with virtually the same squad.
    There is so much wrong with your examples to give you two.. Utd this season are about where they should be give or take a few points. They have been unfortunate not to have about 5 points more (Look at Burnley game and a few others) (Thats called variance) - They also dont have an great squad of players. Its no better than City, Utd, Spurs or even Liverpool.

    Cup competitions greatly increase Variance... Without understanding this you are never going to get close to what i am trying to say

    The Chelsea team is practically the same team that won the league two years ago. Here you are bigging them up OMG 12th to 1st because Conte is a genius and went 3-5-2 LUL They were in disarray last year cos lolMoanriniho pissed everyone off and they couldnt be arsed.

    They are not doing a Leicester (A genuine inferior squad)
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    The Chelsea team is practically the same team that won the league two years ago. Here you are bigging them up OMG 12th to 1st because Conte is a genius and went 3-5-2 LUL They were in disarray last year cos lolMoanriniho pissed everyone off and they couldnt be arsed.

    They are not doing a Leicester (A genuine inferior squad)
    Chelsea are still far outperforming Hiddink's side of earlier this year with their "3-5-2".
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    Chelsea are still far outperforming Hiddink's side of earlier this year with their "3-5-2".
    Tbh the squad quality was never in doubt. Like I said earlier in the 'are Spurs really that good' thread Chelsea needed a box to box midfielder, a backup striker and a CB. We got Alonso in because we had Baba Rahman go out but if we were insisting on playing the 3-4-3 3-5-2 at the start of the season which was never his intention(hence why I said we'll play 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 like we did then) then he would have still been here. Alonso has been solid so far(like Ivan in his good days solid) but his faults are clear on the pitch, fullbacks really should be quick, or at least have a good top speed. In all honesty he's good enough to start but could do with some competition.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Tbh the squad quality was never in doubt. Like I said earlier in the 'are Spurs really that good' thread Chelsea needed a box to box midfielder, a backup striker and a CB. We got Alonso in because we had Baba Rahman go out but if we were insisting on playing the 3-4-3 3-5-2 at the start of the season which was never his intention(hence why I said we'll play 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 like we did then) then he would have still been here. Alonso has been solid so far(like Ivan in his good days solid) but his faults are clear on the pitch, fullbacks really should be quick, or at least have a good top speed. In all honesty he's good enough to start but could do with some competition.
    I don't disagree with that.

    The point was more that I was disagreeing with the other guy saying managers have no effect on performances and contrasting the points obtained by Hiddink and Conte.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    They were in disarray last year cos lolMoanriniho pissed everyone off and they couldnt be arsed.
    So you agree it is all to do with the manager?

    Well done for completely contradicting yourself and destroying your own argument.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    Chelsea are still far outperforming Hiddink's side of earlier this year with their "3-5-2".
    Sample size is so small.. Like when Chelsea stop this incredible run and Costa and Hazard have a few off days and them 1-0's like Brom turn into 0-0's... the narrative will roll out (Oh other great managers have figured out their 3-5-2 tactics) lol
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    So you agree it is all to do with the manager?

    Well done for completely contradicting yourself and destroying your own argument.
    It is all to do with the manager if he decides to slap his penis across his players faces and making them collectively down tools to get him fired

    Pretty rare and unusual circumstance though and not the same as roaring up a managers backside cos he's the cool hipster guy who had a good run over a small sample of games or a cool foreign spanish bloke who had elite squads playing against a bunch of Paella and Bratwurst factory workers for 90% of the year
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    It is all to do with the manager if he decides to slap his penis across his players faces and making them collectively down tools to get him fired

    Pretty rare and unusual circumstance though and not the same as roaring up a managers backside cos he's the cool hipster guy who had a good run over a small sample of games or a cool foreign spanish bloke who had elite squads playing against a bunch of Paella and Bratwurst factory workers for 90% of the year
    It's rare for players not to play for a manager? :rofl:

    No you're completely right. Everyone in the football business is wrong and you are right. Manager's aren't important what so ever. We'll just ignore the countless examples of the same squads of players performing better or worse under different managers. Or the fact that tactics (determined by managers) are a thing in football.

    This isn't A level PE mate. Formations, team selection, man management, signings all play an important role in a team's success. Coincidentally, the duties mostly determined by the manager.
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    (Original post by IamJacksContempt)
    It's rare for players not to play for a manager? :rofl:

    No you're completely right. Everyone in the football business is wrong and you are right. Manager's aren't important what so ever. We'll just ignore the countless examples of the same squads of players performing better or worse under different managers. Or the fact that tactics (determined by managers) are a thing in football.

    This isn't A level PE mate. Formations, team selection, man management, signings all play an important role in a team's success. Coincidentally, the duties mostly determined by the manager.
    Are you saying its common for teams to fall out with the manager and go from champions to bottom half of the table? lol?? The circumstances of chelseas season with carneiro incident are pretty well known and it doesnt take a genius to put 2 and 2 together

    Yes i know I am right.. Thats why Avram Grant can take a team to the champions league final and runner up in the prem.. its why Brendan Rodgers can lead Liverpool to their greatest prem season ever playing scintillating football


    Its why England have been gash for decades in big tournaments be it Capello and Erickson or little owl Roy

    Its why Roberto di matteo could win the FA cup and Champions league.. a few years later he is sacked by championship side Aston Villa

    Its why apart from one freak Leicester season, the richest clubs paying the best wages and biggest fee's for the best players dominate the top of the table. Not because their managers are geniuses

    There is one area a manager can have a strong influence on things and that is signings although i am not talking about the big champs league and oil clubs with unlimited cheque books of course.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Are you saying its common for teams to fall out with the manager and go from champions to bottom half of the table? lol?? The circumstances of chelseas season with carneiro incident are pretty well known and it doesnt take a genius to put 2 and 2 together

    Yes i know I am right.. Thats why Avram Grant can take a team to the champions league final and runner up in the prem.. its why Brendan Rodgers can lead Liverpool to their greatest prem season ever playing scintillating football


    Its why England have been gash for decades in big tournaments be it Capello and Erickson or little owl Roy

    Its why Roberto di matteo could win the FA cup and Champions league.. a few years later he is sacked by championship side Aston Villa

    Its why apart from one freak Leicester season, the richest clubs paying the best wages and biggest fee's for the best players dominate the top of the table. Not because their managers are geniuses

    There is one area a manager can have a strong influence on things and that is signings although i am not talking about the big champs league and oil clubs with unlimited cheque books of course.
    Maybe not as drastic as going from champions to bottom half of the league but plenty of teams with great players can go on bad runs of form if they get a new manager or fall out with their existing one. Hell look at Madrid in Jose's last season there...

    No idea why you brought England up because it's a perfect example against your argument. A team full of good players who can't play well together because they play under inept managers who along with being tactically clueless, can't inspire motivation either.

    Of course the richest teams are going to dominate. They have the best players, best coaching and the best managers. They have the overall package. But then you have Leicester, RB Leipzig this year, Atletico in recent seasons, who thanks to good management combined with some luck have managed to exceed expectations.

    You need to be pretty ignorant to ignore the effects a manager has. Are you saying Guardiola didn't create one of the greatest teams of all time in 2012? Or that United would have dominated for so long even with questionable teams sometimes under Sir Alex? Or that Simeone developed Atletico into the most organised team in football?

    You must surely be a troll.
 
 
 
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