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For all of those who think Pep will get found out in the PL Watch

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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    My team Everton have just signed Ronald Koeman.. a manager who people would say is a great manager. Won trophies in his career and done a fantastic job at Southampton coming of a fantastic season.

    We have payed Southampton £5m - £5m would buy you Kyle Lafferty or Andy Carrols pony tail in the transfer market
    I must admit I thought that £5 million was an absolute bargain.

    Then I thought ,hmmmm, it will be very interesting to see how he does.

    And then I thought "But the problem is with Spurs and Liverpool being so good Everton can't really do any better than under their previous managers.

    So unless they're trying to win the Europa League they could have got pretty much any average Prem manager.

    Or better still an up and coming relatively untested in the big time one"

    Edit but I didn't take into account his ability (or not) to improve certain players and thus add value to the club that way

    Or the likelihood of selling more season tickets if in fact sometimes they don't sell out which I doubt?
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    £5mil is just compensation to pay off his contract with Southampton. With players, you pay a transfer fee to obtain that player's registration (hence it is negotiate over the price for the selling club to transfer his registration). With a manager, he's just quit that contract and therefore the previous employer gets compensation over the value of his remaining contract. So it's like comparing apples and oranges..

    Point remains that if Koeman was as useful as any other manager - why didn't they keep Martinez to keep doing what would be the same job? Why spend £5mil + pay big wages to Koeman? So even your club thinks the manager makes a huge difference on how a squad and club performs.
    If I owned Everton I'd have done the same regardless of whether I believed he likely would make a big difference.

    Why?

    Because I know most fans believe that he could make a big difference and because he might make a big difference.

    If he fails then you don't get blamed, he does -but if an untried manager fails it's all your /the owners fault .

    Plus these things can sell more shirts and tickets etc etc

    Edit Also his ability to attract players who in turn can sell tickets and shirts etc
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    Also ,I might be wrong in the case of Evertons ,but it's not unknown for some chairmen / owners to be as clueless as some fans.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    Also ,I might be wrong in the case of Evertons ,but it's not unknown for some chairmen / owners to be as clueless as some fans.
    Very common in fact
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    £5mil is just compensation to pay off his contract with Southampton. With players, you pay a transfer fee to obtain that player's registration (hence it is negotiate over the price for the selling club to transfer his registration). With a manager, he's just quit that contract and therefore the previous employer gets compensation over the value of his remaining contract. So it's like comparing apples and oranges..

    Point remains that if Koeman was as useful as any other manager - why didn't they keep Martinez to keep doing what would be the same job? Why spend £5mil + pay big wages to Koeman? So even your club thinks the manager makes a huge difference on how a squad and club performs.
    To which Southampton accepted..

    Al clubs think manager makes a huge difference. With regards to Martinez he had to go, the fans despised him and his philosophy. Atmosphere was putrid
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    (Original post by moggis)
    I must admit I thought that £5 million was an absolute bargain.

    Then I thought ,hmmmm, it will be very interesting to see how he does.

    And then I thought "But the problem is with Spurs and Liverpool being so good Everton can't really do any better than under their previous managers.

    So unless they're trying to win the Europa League they could have got pretty much any average Prem manager.

    Or better still an up and coming relatively untested in the big time one"

    Edit but I didn't take into account his ability (or not) to improve certain players and thus add value to the club that way

    Or the likelihood of selling more season tickets if in fact sometimes they don't sell out which I doubt?
    Koemans ability to take us above Liverpool will depend on how much money we give him and how well he spends it. If he is given £30m and Liverpool spend £90m .. are we expecting any manager to close that gap, particuarly if it happens the year after and then the year after again
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Koemans ability to take us above Liverpool will depend on how much money we give him and how well he spends it. If he is given £30m and Liverpool spend £90m .. are we expecting any manager to close that gap, particuarly if it happens the year after and then the year after again
    Incidentally what's the situation money wise at Everton this season. I think I read somewhere that they will have quite a lot?
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Not gonna engage in a big debate because it will be lengthy and arduous than its worth but I do have a question..

    What trophies will Pep and his superior management and style win in the first season? And how many trophies thereafter are you saying he will win?
    I've more or less countered everything you've said since we were in a debate. I never said Pep would DEFINITELY win trophies, so it seems like you're trying to put words in my mouth there.

    That said, I fully expect him to win the League, unless of course Mourinho has an outstanding window and tactics to boot (you can quote me saying GUARDIOLA WILL WIN THE LEAGUE). I reckon he'll get into the semis of the CL and around the same stage of one or both of the domestic cups.

    (Original post by moggis)
    Incidentally what's the situation money wise at Everton this season. I think I read somewhere that they will have quite a lot?
    They've been bankrolled by Farhad Moshiri (a billionaire) who wants to make Everton a top team. For such an astute gambler, I'd expect you to know fairly common information.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    To which Southampton accepted..

    Al clubs think manager makes a huge difference. With regards to Martinez he had to go, the fans despised him and his philosophy. Atmosphere was putrid
    Nothing Southampton can do once a manager has resigned. A player cannot resign from his club as his club holds his registration.

    A manager on the other hand doesn't have a registration. Southampton could continue paying Koeman and then he wouldn't be able to do another job for the duration of his contract. So instead Everton pay off his contract so that he can start asap.

    I was arguing against the initial point that there is no real difference between managers and they all effectively do the same job.
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    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    I've more or less countered everything you've said since we were in a debate. I never said Pep would DEFINITELY win trophies, so it seems like you're trying to put words in my mouth there.

    That said, I fully expect him to win the League, unless of course Mourinho has an outstanding window and tactics to boot (you can quote me saying GUARDIOLA WILL WIN THE LEAGUE). I reckon he'll get into the semis of the CL and around the same stage of one or both of the domestic cups.



    They've been bankrolled by Farhad Moshiri (a billionaire) who wants to make Everton a top team. For such an astute gambler, I'd expect you to know fairly common information.

    I'm incredibly lazy. Plus that information probably won't help me make money from betting on them.

    (That's mainly because I get nearly all the information I really need from the bookies opening odds and observing how they change. )
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Nothing Southampton can do once a manager has resigned. A player cannot resign from his club as his club holds his registration.

    A manager on the other hand doesn't have a registration. Southampton could continue paying Koeman and then he wouldn't be able to do another job for the duration of his contract. So instead Everton pay off his contract so that he can start asap.

    I was arguing against the initial point that there is no real difference between managers and they all effectively do the same job.
    (Original post by Diego Costa)
    I've more or less countered everything you've said since we were in a debate. I never said Pep would DEFINITELY win trophies, so it seems like you're trying to put words in my mouth there.

    That said, I fully expect him to win the League, unless of course Mourinho has an outstanding window and tactics to boot (you can quote me saying GUARDIOLA WILL WIN THE LEAGUE). I reckon he'll get into the semis of the CL and around the same stage of one or both of the domestic cups.



    They've been bankrolled by Farhad Moshiri (a billionaire) who wants to make Everton a top team. For such an astute gambler, I'd expect you to know fairly common information.
    I have decided this is not an argument i want to advance. Too much effort and i am more concerned with the brexit referendum.

    I am sure England will have a terrible Euro's thanks to Roy unlike when we had the worlds most respected managers in Erikson and Capello
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    I have decided this is not an argument i want to advance. Too much effort and i am more concerned with the brexit referendum.

    I am sure England will have a terrible Euro's thanks to Roy unlike when we had the worlds most respected managers in Erikson and Capello
    That's nice, it's good to hear from people when they accept they are wrong.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    That's nice, it's good to hear from people when they accept they are wrong.
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    And the "Pep is a bald fraud" posts stay in their drafts for yet another week.
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    Everton have a great chance of coming top 4 this season personally. Would actually put them in the darkhorse race as they seem to be playing well.

    With City yeah they're looking pretty good but haven't kept a clean sheet this season, for all that's talked about Chelsea's defence being shocking we've conceded less goals than City, United obviously good defensively like you'd expect being under Mourinho.

    Pep's doing a lot with the team at the moment and you can see that they're only going to get better with Gundogan and Sane coming in. In fact I could see Guardiola rotating a lot when all the players come back from injury and start hitting form. He did rotate a fair bit at Bayern so I'd expect something similar here.
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    Pep is still a fraud....

    Wait till mid-end season when city will flop


    Quote me then :rofl:
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    Pep is a fraud. Anyone with an grain of football knowledge would have won stuff with his Barca team, and then all he did in Germany was win the Bundesliga, which is no challenge at all. All he's done in England is win 3 games, none against top 8 teams.
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    (Original post by bammy jastard 27)
    Everton have a great chance of coming top 4 this season personally. Would actually put them in the darkhorse race as they seem to be playing well.

    With City yeah they're looking pretty good but haven't kept a clean sheet this season, for all that's talked about Chelsea's defence being shocking we've conceded less goals than City, United obviously good defensively like you'd expect being under Mourinho.

    Pep's doing a lot with the team at the moment and you can see that they're only going to get better with Gundogan and Sane coming in. In fact I could see Guardiola rotating a lot when all the players come back from injury and start hitting form. He did rotate a fair bit at Bayern so I'd expect something similar here.
    I called Everton for top 6 pre-season and got laughed at by most people. Koeman is a very underrated manager. Top 4 is a push though, who do they replace? They aren't finishing above City, Chelsea or United, they have such an inferiority complex next to Liverpool and then there's Arsenal who always do enough to get their 4th place trophy.

    As for City they've hardly been flawless, they've made a few mistakes which the top teams would have punished. We can't judge them, United or Chelsea until they've played high quality opposition. It's ****ing ridiculous that the game is at midday just after internationals.
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    (Original post by richpanda)
    Pep is a fraud. Anyone with an grain of football knowledge would have won stuff with his Barca team, and then all he did in Germany was win the Bundesliga, which is no challenge at all. All he's done in England is win 3 games, none against top 8 teams.
    Would they have won 5 titles in the first season?


    And it's even more ridiculous they've put the Manchester derby on at the same time as the Old Firm game
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    (Original post by sr90)
    I called Everton for top 6 pre-season and got laughed at by most people. Koeman is a very underrated manager. Top 4 is a push though, who do they replace? They aren't finishing above City, Chelsea or United, they have such an inferiority complex next to Liverpool and then there's Arsenal who always do enough to get their 4th place trophy.

    As for City they've hardly been flawless, they've made a few mistakes which the top teams would have punished. We can't judge them, United or Chelsea until they've played high quality opposition. It's ****ing ridiculous that the game is at midday just after internationals.
    Yeah Koeman's pretty beast. Got a more than adequate Stones replacement. I mean pushing for top 4. I can see them coming above Spurs and possibly Liverpool. Arsenal will most likely get 4th, simply because their squad is better than Liverpool and Everton while Spurs(who probably are just about Arsenal's level in terms of strength in depth) are pretty bad at the mental aspect in the league.

    City have had their issues but you can see that he's changed the style of play completely early on, got the midfield more tight and is able to get his team to have a lot of the ball. That's what I mean by he's doing a lot. I think that they can be got at defensively on the counter attack and I wouldn't trust Guardiola's fullbacks 1 vs 1 either, Clichy's positioning isn't great, he's just a pretty average fullback, Sagna and Zabaleta are reliable but not that great either.
 
 
 
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