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Feminism is needed Watch

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    (Original post by TheBBQ)
    Or maybe it's called not agreeing?
    Great, but when you don't agree with someone, it's common practice to provide more than a one word response. Your one word response appeared not to disagree with my points but to indicate that you wouldn't even consider them. And how can I consider your point of view if you give me nothing to go on?
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    (Original post by TheFisherTea)
    Not entirely sure what you are trying to say. I am simply saying that for someone to make a claim as bold as 'women don't have as many rights as men' without even an example is unhelpful in any discussion. I am simply asking for a RIGHT that men have that women don't in the UK and western society in general. Not the social inequalities that exist.
    The right to equality and non-discrimination.
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    (Original post by JenniMusic)




    Why 'in the west'? Surely this is a more global issue?
    Perhaps because plenty of feminists focus on the West. I don't see many of them doing anything about genuine discrimination against women. And the movement has also been infected by ridiculous "intersectional" stuff, to the point where they care more about being perceived as progressive and anti-racist than they do about..well, women being sexually assaulted. It's tremendously ironic.
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    (Original post by rational11)
    Women still dont have as many rights as men.
    Are we talking globally or just within Britain? If the latter which RIGHTS do women not have that men do, obviously excluding any that there could be that trivially cannot really be applied to women?

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    (Original post by Indeterminate)
    In the UK it's a reality. Check out the following findings by the Office for National Statistics

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34855056
    Have you even read the ONS reports or merely news articles looking for stories? Even the ONS reports don't delve particularly deeply in to the whys.

    Further, OP mentioned rights, all people having the same income is not a right.

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Have you even read the ONS reports or merely news articles looking for stories? Even the ONS reports don't delve particularly deeply in to the whys.

    Further, OP mentioned rights, all people having the same income is not a right.

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    Yes it is because there is a right to non discrimination contained in pretty much all of the UN, International and Regional instruments on human rights

    http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publi...hapter13en.pdf
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    A lot of people seem to be commenting on the movements of third wave feminism rather than the feminism we see everyday. Feminism is equality for everyone, not just women. The majority of feminists actually don't mind having less as long as what they have is equal for example, having women go to prison for the same length of time, not getting child custody if it seems fit etc.
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    (Original post by paddy25)
    Yes it is because there is a right to non discrimination contained in pretty much all of the UN, International and Regional instruments on human rights

    http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publi...hapter13en.pdf
    A right which exists, which brings our list of rights extended to men but not women back down to 0.

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    oh the patriarchy
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    (Original post by TheFisherTea)
    Not entirely sure what you are trying to say. I am simply saying that for someone to make a claim as bold as 'women don't have as many rights as men' without even an example is unhelpful in any discussion. I am simply asking for a RIGHT that men have that women don't in the UK and western society in general. Not the social inequalities that exist.
    Men can pee standing up- women can't
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    (Original post by 761yugtaerg)
    Men can pee standing up- women can't
    Neither true nor a right

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    A right which exists, which brings our list of rights extended to men but not women back down to 0.

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    But you're fully missing the point of the difference between the theoretical conferral of rights and the practical exercise of them.

    For example, Uganda's Constitution guarantees the right to non-discrimination and equality, yet there are widespread rights abuses against gay people, disabled people, stateless people, women.

    Yes, we are lucky enough to have a better situation than that here in the UK, but it's lunacy/dangerous to say "look men and women and gay and straight and able bodied and disabled and children and old people" all have this right on paper so we all have exactly the same rights!" If that worked then there would be no injustice in the world.

    Yes, women "have" the same rights de jure in many cases, but not de facto.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Neither true nor a right

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    It is true.
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    (Original post by 761yugtaerg)
    It is true.
    You've clearly never been out in a uni town with former polytechnic then


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    (Original post by paddy25)
    But you're fully missing the point of the difference between the theoretical conferral of rights and the practical exercise of them.

    For example, Uganda's Constitution guarantees the right to non-discrimination and equality, yet there are widespread rights abuses against gay people, disabled people, stateless people, women.

    Yes, we are lucky enough to have a better situation than that here in the UK, but it's lunacy/dangerous to say "look men and women and gay and straight and able bodied and disabled and children and old people" all have this right on paper so we all have exactly the same rights!" If that worked then there would be no injustice in the world.

    Yes, women "have" the same rights de jure in many cases, but not de facto.
    So are the poor discriminated against on the basis of a pay disparity with the rich, the fact they are paid less is blatant discrimination in contravention of fundamental rights?

    Once again, I ask have you actually looked into any of the ONS reports? Have you actually looked at reasoning behind disparities? Or have you simply read articles that can only even come to one conclusion because it sells?

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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    You've clearly never been out in a uni town with former polytechnic then


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    poly-what?
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    (Original post by paddy25)
    But you're fully missing the point of the difference between the theoretical conferral of rights and the practical exercise of them.

    For example, Uganda's Constitution guarantees the right to non-discrimination and equality, yet there are widespread rights abuses against gay people, disabled people, stateless people, women.

    Yes, we are lucky enough to have a better situation than that here in the UK, but it's lunacy/dangerous to say "look men and women and gay and straight and able bodied and disabled and children and old people" all have this right on paper so we all have exactly the same rights!" If that worked then there would be no injustice in the world.

    Yes, women "have" the same rights de jure in many cases, but not de facto.
    What rights don't women have in practice then? The problem is feminism so often tries to influence government policy but the government has realistically done all it can.


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    (Original post by 761yugtaerg)
    poly-what?
    The second uni in a city with a better one essentially. So Angela Ruskin in Cambridge, Oxford Brooke's in Oxford, Brighton (in Brighton but behind Sussex)


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    In today's society, there is less of a need for "female equality" but rather all gender equality. As many of you have pointed out there are many ways in which women have more rights than men and vice versa. But also in the 21st century we are seeing more and more people who identify outside of the gender binary and are being treated differently, not always legally but socially outcast and discriminated. So many "minorities" are discriminated against day in day out. This shouldn't just be about female equality anymore rather than human equality.

    Humanism? ... lol. Think we need a new name for this equality movement.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    So are the poor discriminated against on the basis of a pay disparity with the rich, the fact they are paid less is blatant discrimination in contravention of fundamental rights?

    Once again, I ask have you actually looked into any of the ONS reports? Have you actually looked at reasoning behind disparities? Or have you simply read articles that can only even come to one conclusion because it sells?

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    In answer to your first question, if what you're talking about is a pay disparity constituting unequal pay from equal work then, yes it is in contravention of fundamental rights and many labour conventions.

    Yes I have looked into the ONS reports and don't understand why you're putting them on a pedestal, they confirm that a gender pay gap exists and therefore women are often not effectively enjoying their right to non-discrimination (something which you seem desperate to deny)

    I have worked on issues of gender equality in the UN in New York, have studied a masters in human rights and currently work in rights research so yes, I am very aware of reasons behind disparities although I feel we would not see eye to eye on that.
 
 
 
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