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Jeremy Corbyn's intellectual credentials... or lack of. Watch

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    (Original post by Observatory)
    This is a fair point, but Corbyn is not a 25 or 30 year old rising star. He has a long career behind him and in it he was not a particularly noteworthy figure even within the far left. We are not talking about a Mises or a Hayek here, a giant within his own intellectual fringe even if not well known outside it, we are talking about a rather average political operator. This is what his wikipedia page looked like at the beginning of 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...ldid=640795951

    (to be fair, I did incorrectly say he hadn't written for the papers; here it says he had a column in The Morning Star)
    Not really moaning at you but why does it matter if he has or hasn't got a degree...the most important thing is he is clued up on how to run a country. Getting a georgraphy degree from Oxford will not in anyway make him better at doing that lol.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    This is a fair point, but Corbyn is not a 25 or 30 year old rising star. He has a long career behind him and in it he was not a particularly noteworthy figure even within the far left. We are not talking about a Mises or a Hayek here, a giant within his own intellectual fringe even if not well known outside it, we are talking about a rather average political operator. This is what his wikipedia page looked like at the beginning of 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...ldid=640795951

    (to be fair, I did incorrectly say he hadn't written for the papers; here it says he had a column in The Morning Star)
    The two most significant things about Corbyn are that:-

    1 His interests are almost entirely in foreign affairs. I accept he invited striking miners to the Commons in 1985 and he stood on the Grunwick picket line, but his record on domestic left wing issues is trivial.

    2 In a closed world where demonstrating ideological purity is important, he has stayed afloat for over 40 years
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    (Original post by xxvine)
    Not really moaning at you but why does it matter if he has or hasn't got a degree...the most important thing is he is clued up on how to run a country. Getting a georgraphy degree from Oxford will not in anyway make him better at doing that lol.
    Well it seems to me that Observatory's point is regarding Corbyn's career (not his academic background) being an indication of his mediocrity. I have sympathy for this view given that most of you lot had never even heard of him before this recent bandwagoning despite having a 40+ year political career. This would be explainable if he was a relative newcomer to it all but he isn't.
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    He isn't intelligent enough to run the country as he is boxed off ideologically. He can only see the world through a neo Marxist viewpoint, i.e. Oppressors v Oppressed. He isn't pragmatic enough nor flexible and would be played like a fiddle by other international leaders, especially the EU which is a big problem. He thinks everyone is essentially good, which is not true. We are good and bad and try to be good. Knowing we are capable of evil is a massive step toward personal development and maturity. Jeremy hasn't made that leap and is still at college undergrad level thinking about human nature.Why do the young love him and the old think he is dangerous (not him per se, but his naïveté). He has Marxist presuppositions that run fundamentally against human nature, hence murder, torture and misery in every country these ideas are implemented. No exceptions.We gave the Fascists two chance and one went full murderous, the other went along with them. We said
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    It never stops does it, who cares? It's not of primary importance as an indicator of political knowledge, passion interest or integrity, or even general intelligence.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    Well it seems to me that Observatory's point is regarding Corbyn's career (not his academic background) being an indication of his mediocrity. I have sympathy for this view given that most of you lot had never even heard of him before this recent bandwagoning despite having a 40+ year political career. This would be explainable if he was a relative newcomer to it all but he isn't.
    David Lammy went to Harvard and was high up under Blair, we can see he is such a bastion of integrity and principles and excellence.

    Corbyn was in the background because the ideology and politics dominant at the time meant his politics were marginal in the UK. He is now not because politics and peoples needs and realizations have shifted to coincide with his own viewpoints. Oh, and he's been right about all their stupid foreign policy.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    I recently discovered something rather interesting, something which I'm surprised isn't more widely publicised by anti-Corbyn activists (which, for the record, I would not include myself among).

    Jeremy Corbyn pursued a degree in Trade Union Studies at London Metropolitan University (then called North London Polytechnic), but he dropped out after his first year.

    London Metropolitan University is currently placed at 126th in the university league tables. That makes it the lowest ranked university in the whole of the UK.

    So... Jeremy Corbyn didn't graduate from the worst university in the UK.

    As I said, I'm very surprised that this fact isn't more widely publicised, as it does seem a rather effective anti-Corbyn weapon, insofar as it inevitably prompts doubts about his intellectual suitability to be leader of a major political party, let alone Prime Minister.

    Now, I realise that what university you go to isn't the sole determinant of how intellectually clever you are, but it's certainly symptomatic. Especially when you compare Jeremy Corbyn with David Cameron, who graduated with a first from Oxford. That contrast between the two really does suggest a wide gulf in terms of their intellectual abilities.

    So, for anyone whose is a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, did you know about all this? Do you care? Does it really mean anything?

    For those who don't support him, do you care? Does this lower your opinion of Jeremy Corbyn? Do you think it could damage his reputation?

    I look forward to a lively discussion.
    Not just that but his A levels were E,E,F
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    It never stops does it, who cares? It's not of primary importance as an indicator of political knowledge, passion interest or integrity, or even general intelligence.
    It is indicative of work ethic. If you drop out of the 126th University there is no way you are intelligent. I'd rather have somebody with a brain planning legislation and economics for the UK than somebody who has no idea what they're doing.
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    (Original post by Logia)
    Not just that but his A levels were E,E,F
    A-Levels are a demonstration of work ethic & time management, not intelligence competence, especially at the fact that it is taken at the age of 18.

    Corbyn to me sounds like someone who was probably smart enough to get into Oxford, Cambridge and ect ect. But like many of us out there he probably realised sitting in a classroom all day and learning about theories, meanders in Theresa May's case, didn't actually have any impact on what he wanted to ultimately do.

    So instead of just studying, he went against traditional norms probably going against his parent's wishes/disappointing someone out there and actually went out into the big wide world to achieve the goal he ultimately wanted to achieve, which is something I respect far more than Cameron's first degree in whatever it was or May's Geography degree, who were probably spoon fed a job into Politics.
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    Winston Churchill didn't go to university at all, but we never question his intelligence.
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    (Original post by ozilll)
    A-Levels are a demonstration of work ethic & time management, not intelligence competence, especially at the fact that it is taken at the age of 18.

    Corbyn to me sounds like someone who was probably smart enough to get into Oxford, Cambridge and ect ect. But like many of us out there he probably realised sitting in a classroom all day and learning about theories, meanders in Theresa May's case, didn't actually have any impact on what he wanted to ultimately do.

    So instead of just studying, he went against traditional norms probably going against his parent's wishes/disappointing someone out there and actually went out into the big wide world to achieve the goal he ultimately wanted to achieve, which is something I respect far more than Cameron's first degree in whatever it was or May's Geography degree, who were probably spoon fed a job into Politics.
    Corbyn was at one of the best grammar schools in the country. Even being educated in that environment would get you decent grades if you had a shred of intelligence, even if you don't work.

    And that's a problem. Poor work ethic and management is awful for a PM candidate and party leader. The Prime Minister is one of the most busy people in the country. Their work hours depend on the person but David Cameron, for example, averaged working every day of every week (minus his two weeks holiday) and an average of 12-14 hours a day. Corbyn wouldn't do that. Corbyn wouldn't be able to handle the management of 23 cabinet ministers, party whips, investors, the civil service, meetings and diplomacy. He can't manage three A levels for goodness sake.

    You're making excuses for him. No matter which way you cut it, he's either an idiot or incredibly disorganised. Neither of which you want in an influential politician
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    (Original post by Logia)
    It is indicative of work ethic. If you drop out of the 126th University there is no way you are intelligent. I'd rather have somebody with a brain planning legislation and economics for the UK than somebody who has no idea what they're doing.
    He is not the chancellor, and who has qualifications for 'legislation'? Only lawyers, his job is policy, and he does it in a team, and it's informed by empirical political experience, not a degree. His chancellor deals with economics(which are costed in Labours manifesto, unlike the Tories), and the treasurer- this is just the usual paranoia that ignores the realities of our system and tries to make out he's some huge threat.

    Oh, and no-one was bothered about Major leaving school at 16 with sod all(or earlier I think) figures as he is Tory. I bet you wouldn't have bothered in the slightest about that
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    He is not the chancellor, and who has qualifications for 'legislation'? Only lawyers, his job is policy, and he does it in a team, and it's informed by empirical political experience, not a degree. His chancellor deals with economics(which are costed in Labours manifesto, unlike the Tories), and the treasurer- this is just the usual paranoia that ignores the realities of our system and tries to make out he's some huge threat.

    Oh, and no-one was bothered about Major leaving school at 16 with sod all(or earlier I think) figures as he is Tory. I bet you wouldn't have bothered in the slightest about that
    Experience as a life-long back bench rebel is not experience worthy of being called a credit to him. Yes, while he has a team, the shadow cabinet are instructed by him, he is held accountable for all of them, he manages all of them and tells them what they are to do. Usually it's to collect frequently disproven and incorrect data to try and usurp the Prime Minister's image (whether it be Cameron or May) during Prime Minister's questions.

    In British politics, the Chancellor and the Prime Minister deal with the economy together as equals - with other ministers chipping in when relevant. The Prime Minister, chief diplomats and ministers to whom specific areas may concern (e.g. David Davis is dealing with Brexit, but Boris Johnson works with Commonwealth representatives) are all equals in this field too whereas in this area the Chancellor (just an example) is nigh irrelevant. This is how it is across the board. The best way to put it is the Prime Minister is the first among equals. Equal in authority in every area to the Cabinet Minister's in their own fields - but with the added responsibility of this authority being across the board, greater accountability and management. Corbyn wouldn't handle this.

    There's an argument for this largely being down to prime ministerial style, but Corbyn's rather authoritarian, so I doubt this would have been different under him.

    I don't care about John Major. I wasn't alive when he was Prime Minister. He was a poor Prime Minister and his credentials may have influenced this - the same could be said for Corbyn if he ever becomes elected. You have a lot of animosity towards the Conservatives. Chill. I'm not sure if this is induced by to my anti-Corbyn stance or not, but to clarify, I'm Lib-Dem. Fervantly Lib-Dem. I don't like May either but she's ten times what Corbyn ever could be, and she's awful.
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    (Original post by Logia)
    Experience as a life-long back bench rebel is not experience worthy of being called a credit to him.

    In British politics, the Chancellor and the Prime Minister deal with the economy together as equals -

    Corbyn's rather authoritarian,

    I'm Lib-Dem. Fervantly Lib-Dem. I don't like May either but she's ten times what Corbyn ever could be, and she's awful.
    It is in my eyes, because New Labour were abject and worthless, and establishment a cancerous, self-seeking failure.

    No, they don't.

    No, he isn't.

    The Lib Dems are irritating stupid, a waste of votes, taken from Labour to help Tories, smug, morally superior 'centrist' and obsessed currently with Brexit only.

    I don't understand how anyone can be 'fervently' Lib Dem(since they are pretty much the opposite of political fervor), just as I don't understand how they can feel fervently New Labour.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    It is in my eyes, because New Labour were abject and worthless, and establishment a cancerous, self-seeking failure.

    No, they don't.

    No, he isn't.

    The Lib Dems are irritating stupid, a waste of votes, taken from Labour to help Tories, smug, morally superior 'centrist' and obsessed currently with Brexit only.

    I don't understand how anyone can be 'fervently' Lib Dem(since they are pretty much the opposite of political fervor), just as I don't understand how they can feel fervently New Labour.
    Well considering in pre-election surveys online over 70% of u25's agreed with Lib Dems the most, but still went out and voted labour - I have to disagree. Not a waste of votes. I'm voting for what I believe in. How dare you invalidate my opinion based upon political persuasion.

    To be fervently Lib Dem is to be a strong supporter of their centrist, slightly authoritarian capitalist politics. Also Lib Dems usually take seats from the Conservatives as the Conservatives have ironically been far more progressive than Labour in recent years. People who vote Lib Dem are very much all about progress. We don't want to see the UK adopt any economic policy reminiscent to that of eastern bloc satellite states in the 80s. **** new labour.

    And yes, they do. You clearly aren't very knowledgeable on this subject matter.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    It is in my eyes, because New Labour were abject and worthless, and establishment a cancerous, self-seeking failure.

    No, they don't.

    No, he isn't.

    The Lib Dems are irritating stupid, a waste of votes, taken from Labour to help Tories, smug, morally superior 'centrist' and obsessed currently with Brexit only.

    I don't understand how anyone can be 'fervently' Lib Dem(since they are pretty much the opposite of political fervor), just as I don't understand how they can feel fervently New Labour.
    New Labour were 'abject and worthless'...? -- it put Blair in Office for two terms.

    The Third Way represents compromise in politics; yet Marxists, Corbynistas etc., are too ideological and close-minded to the detriment of progress in politics IMO.

    'Blairite', 'centrist', 'Red Tory', etc., are synonymous with 'traitor' to many on the left of the Labour Party. Like mate... is showing concern for economic progress, sustainability, fiscal responsibility etc. really such a bad thing? ...seriously, is it?

    Corbyn and his comrades seem willing to just play with people's money like it's some false, abstract concept with no value because... 'Marxism'. Willing to shut off moderate viewpoints within their own party because... 'revolution'. Willing to outcast and scapegoat the likes of Kendall and Umunna because... 'leadership' and 'unity'. His lack of intellectual credentials only point to his lack of real world experience where the likes of him and McDonnell get their ideology from books and trade unions w/o studying other views. They know nothing of the real world.

    Though ngl, this being said, close mindedness does apply to both the left and right. Though, as a Tory, I'd say pluralism is accepted more in the Conservative Party than in Labour: from the Tory Reform Group to Bright Blue to One-Nation Conservatism in general, under Corbyn, centrists and views outside of a Marxist box are negated which is pretty sad tbh. True intellectual thoughts are diversified.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    I recently discovered something rather interesting, something which I'm surprised isn't more widely publicised by anti-Corbyn activists (which, for the record, I would not include myself among).

    Jeremy Corbyn pursued a degree in Trade Union Studies at London Metropolitan University (then called North London Polytechnic), but he dropped out after his first year.

    London Metropolitan University is currently placed at 126th in the university league tables. That makes it the lowest ranked university in the whole of the UK.

    So... Jeremy Corbyn didn't graduate from the worst university in the UK.

    As I said, I'm very surprised that this fact isn't more widely publicised, as it does seem a rather effective anti-Corbyn weapon, insofar as it inevitably prompts doubts about his intellectual suitability to be leader of a major political party, let alone Prime Minister.

    Now, I realise that what university you go to isn't the sole determinant of how intellectually clever you are, but it's certainly symptomatic. Especially when you compare Jeremy Corbyn with David Cameron, who graduated with a first from Oxford. That contrast between the two really does suggest a wide gulf in terms of their intellectual abilities.

    So, for anyone whose is a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, did you know about all this? Do you care? Does it really mean anything?

    For those who don't support him, do you care? Does this lower your opinion of Jeremy Corbyn? Do you think it could damage his reputation?

    I look forward to a lively discussion.
    Corbyn does actually believe what he says and actually cares about the lower class unlike most other politicians. He has determination and actually cares
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    John Major barely had any O-Levels.


    NEXT QUESTION
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    (Original post by Akamega)
    Winston Churchill didn't go to university at all, but we never question his intelligence.
    Neither did James Callaghan , nor John Major. And more people voted for John Major's Tory party in 1992 than any other party in peacetime.

    Jeremy Corbyn's policies and his lack of campaigning on remaining in Europe are what we should be criticising, not his A levels or not which were over 50 years ago.
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    I am not a Corbyn voter, but it's a poor argument.

    A man who barely passed his A levels ran a better campaign than an Oxford graduate.
 
 
 
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