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Jeremy Corbyn's intellectual credentials... or lack of. Watch

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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    I disagree. You have to be among the cleverest people in the country to be admitted to Oxford, let alone to graduate there with a first.

    On the other hand, only people with very low academic qualifications, which essentially are indicative of your intellectual ability, are going to apply for the lowest ranked university in the country.
    A piece of paper means very little. Plenty of people that the sheep deem "clever" who ask their customers "would you like fries with that" everyday...

    On the other hand there's folk out there with multimillions in the bank without so much as a gcse to their name.

    A piece of paper might open a few doors, but it certainly isn't the be all and end all.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    Why does a degree mean nothing?

    And I'm afraid I can't follow the logic behind you accusation that I don't believe voters without a degree should be prohibited from voting, which I certainly didn't imply in even the vaguest terms. Perhaps you could elaborate?
    A degree doesn't mean anything when it comes to politics what matters is how well you can back up your view. Oxbridge is known for its STEM graduates being smart, the social sciences are a joke no matter what university they are studied at as most first class graduates whether that be in philosophy or politics have little to no understanding of economics and the ones that do are only taught the left-wing big government views as opposed to free-market laissez-faire economics
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    I am no fan of Corbin but he went to a Poly to do a degree, then decided to drop out.
    Good on him for deciding that a degree wasn't for him after all .
    Rather that than some idiot who decided that "you'll never get anywhere without a degree" so carries on regardless.

    loads of people start courses and change their mind. IMHO it's brave.

    Also. NLP was actually quite a good poly 30 odd years ago but changed to a Uni and went down hill.
    You can't judge anybody's academic qualifications based on an institution's ranking a generation ago.

    I don't like the guy or his politics ( although i am left of centre) but claims like the OIP are just daft.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    If you look at the current cabinet most of their education has nothing to do with the position they currently hold. Osborne has a degree in modern history (surely the chancellor should have a degree in Economics), Jeremy Hunt studied PPE (this made him fit to be Health Secretary because?).
    You're confusing intelligence with practical knowledge. I was pointing out that David Cameron's university education indicates that he is more intellectual than Jeremy Corbyn, and simply suggesting that this might be a factor in the appeal of a candidate for Prime Minister.


    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    Corbyn was off doing activism and union work, I don't agree with a lot of what he says but I'll admit his experience is more relevant to what he does now.
    I agree.
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    Tories getting real desperate now trying to find any way to discredit Corbyn. First he was a danger to my family, then he was a terrorist sympathiser and now he's an uneducated fool. Shows you how scared they are of him.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    I recently discovered some rather interesting, something which I'm surprised isn't more widely publicised by anti-Corbyn activists (which, for the record, I would not include myself among).

    Jeremy Corbyn pursued a degree in Trade Union Studies at London Metropolitan University (then called North London Polytechnic), but he dropped out after his first year.

    London Metropolitan University is currently placed at 126th in the university league tables. That makes it the lowest ranked university in the whole of the UK.

    So... Jeremy Corbyn didn't graduate from the worst university in the UK.

    As I said, I'm very surprised that this fact isn't more widely publicised, as it does seem a rather effective anti-Corbyn weapon, insofar as it inevitably prompts doubts about his intellectual suitability to be leader of a major political party, let alone Prime Minister.

    Now, I realise that what university you go to isn't the sole determinant of how intellectually clever you are, but it's certainly symptomatic. Especially when you compare Jeremy Corbyn with David Cameron, who graduated with a first from Oxford. That contrast between the two really does suggest a wide gulf in terms of their intellectual abilities.

    So, for anyone whose is a supporter of Jeremy Corbyn, did you know about all this? Do you care? Does it really mean anything?

    For those who don't support him, do you care? Does this lower your opinion of Jeremy Corbyn? Do you think it could damage his reputation?

    I look forward to a lively discussion.

    John Major left school at 16 with three o levels.

    /thread
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    (Original post by lustawny)
    Oh, who the **** cares? Corbyn is the realest politician in that place (House of Commons), and that is what counts the most in my mind.
    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Makes absolutely no difference as far as I'm concerned. The fact that so many useless members of parliament graduated from Oxbridge shows how irrelevant it is.
    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Stop with the ad hominem ********. Academia is utter nonsense anyway and really not that related to politics. All of which tends to be far better when self-taught. Judge people on the content of their words not arbitrarily defined "credentials".
    To be clear, I was merely pointing out that Jeremy Corbyn's university education is indicative that he is not terribly clever, and asking to what extent you consider this to be a factor in his appeal as a candidate for Prime Minister. In my own opinion, I think it is a factor, but certainly not a decisive one.

    However, you three seem to be suggesting that it is not a factor at all. Now, if you would allow me the liberty of an ad absurdum argument, let's suppose hypothetically (and I do stress that this purely hypothetical) that we knew that Jeremy Corbyn had taken an IQ test and got a score of 40 (as I said, ad absurdum). Would even that extreme not influence your opinion of him as a political figure?
    If your answer is yes then you are admitting that intellectual abilities are a factor in a politician's appeal; we just disagree over the extent of that factor. If you answer is no... then I'm afraid I can't take you seriously.
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    (Original post by domonict)
    I am no fan of Corbin but he went to a Poly to do a degree, then decided to drop out.
    Good on him for deciding that a degree wasn't for him after all .
    Rather that than some idiot who decided that "you'll never get anywhere without a degree" so carries on regardless.

    loads of people start courses and change their mind. IMHO it's brave.

    Also. NLP was actually quite a good poly 30 odd years ago but changed to a Uni and went down hill.
    You can't judge anybody's academic qualifications based on an institution's ranking a generation ago.

    I don't like the guy or his politics ( although i am left of centre) but claims like the OIP are just daft.
    I mostly agree with you (apart from the last bit about the OP being daft ).
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    John Major left school at 16 with three o levels.

    /thread
    Yes... and if he was the current leader of the Conservative Party, while the Labour leader had a first from Oxford or Cambridge, then I'd be talking about that contrast instead, because I think it's an interesting discussion.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    To be clear, I was merely pointing out that Jeremy Corbyn's university education is indicative that he is not terribly clever, and asking to what extent you consider this to be a factor in his appeal as a candidate for Prime Minister. In my own opinion, I think it is a factor, but certainly not a decisive one.

    However, you three seem to be suggesting that it is not a factor at all. Now, if you would allow me the liberty of an ad absurdum argument, let's suppose hypothetically (and I do stress that this purely hypothetical) that we knew that Jeremy Corbyn had taken an IQ test and got a score of 40 (as I said, ad absurdum). Would even that extreme not influence your opinion of him as a political figure?
    If your answer is yes then you are admitting that intellectual abilities are a factor in a politician's appeal; we just disagree over the extent of that factor. If you answer is no... then I'm afraid I can't take you seriously.
    :sigh:

    What do you think schools are for? If he was unsuitably intelligent for the role of prime minister, I'd tell him to hit the books.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    You're confusing intelligence with practical knowledge. I was pointing out that David Cameron's university education indicates that he is more intellectual than Jeremy Corbyn, and simply suggesting that this might be a factor in the appeal of a candidate for Prime Minister.
    But Corbyn dropping out of uni doesn't demonstrate lack of intelligence plus, Cameron went to a a private school that charges over £11,000 per term, if I was his parent and he didn't get into Oxbridge after paying that amount of money every school term I'd demand my bloody money back.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    Yes... and if he was the current leader of the Conservative Party, while the Labour leader had a first from Oxford or Cambridge, then I'd be talking about that contrast instead, because I think it's an interesting discussion.
    I have a physics degree. Clearly I should be leader of the labour party.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    I have a physics degree. Clearly I should be leader of the labour party.
    ...

    How the **** is that at all relevant to what I said?
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    (Original post by TSRforum)
    A degree doesn't mean anything when it comes to politics what matters is how well you can back up your view. Oxbridge is known for its STEM graduates being smart, the social sciences are a joke no matter what university they are studied at as most first class graduates whether that be in philosophy or politics have little to no understanding of economics and the ones that do are only taught the left-wing big government views as opposed to free-market laissez-faire economics
    Really?

    When do we ever get an in depth rational debate ion PMQs?

    Me thinks otherwise.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    But Corbyn dropping out of uni doesn't demonstrate lack of intelligence plus, Cameron went to a a private school that charges over £11,000 per term, if I was his parent and he didn't get into Oxbridge after paying that amount of money every school term I'd demand my bloody money back.
    No, I agree the dropping out bit doesn't mean much, but I do think that going to one of the lowest ranked universities in the UK (I don't know where exactly it was ranked when Jeremy Corbyn was there, but if it's dead last now I suspect it wasn't very high then) does indicate a relatively poor intellect.

    Concerning Cameron's education at Eton, I'm afraid I'm not sure if I understand you. Are you claiming that his admission to Oxford was primarily based on the "prestige" of Eton? If so, I disagree.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    To be clear, I was merely pointing out that Jeremy Corbyn's university education is indicative that he is not terribly clever, and asking to what extent you consider this to be a factor in his appeal as a candidate for Prime Minister. In my own opinion, I think it is a factor, but certainly not a decisive one.

    However, you three seem to be suggesting that it is not a factor at all. Now, if you would allow me the liberty of an ad absurdum argument, let's suppose hypothetically (and I do stress that this purely hypothetical) that we knew that Jeremy Corbyn had taken an IQ test and got a score of 40 (as I said, ad absurdum). Would even that extreme not influence your opinion of him as a political figure?
    If your answer is yes then you are admitting that intellectual abilities are a factor in a politician's appeal; we just disagree over the extent of that factor. If you answer is no... then I'm afraid I can't take you seriously.
    That's an appalling analogy because if he had an IQ of 40 then I would obviously not support him since he would be severely mentally disabled and not capable of making basic rational decisions. He doesn't have an IQ of 40 though. If we're comparing the IQs of leaders then we're probably discussing a fairly narrow band of IQs in the range of ~100-120 and within that range, I definitely do not think that IQ is by any means the most important factor. Why would I suddenly stop supporting someone who stands up for what I believe in just because somebody else scored higher in a few tests? That's absurd. You can't decide who's the best leader on the basis of test results.

    If you want me to admit that intelligence has some role to play, obviously. We're not going to elect a 5 year old or somebody with severe mental development issues to Prime Minister. This is just being pedantic though and it's not getting us anywhere. Within the set of people with normal intelligence (i.e. most people), a test score is not a very important factor - which is clearly the point we are making.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Really?

    When do we ever get an in depth rational debate ion PMQs?

    Me thinks otherwise.
    PMQs is a joke, you've just made my point


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    (Original post by TSRforum)
    PMQs is a joke, you've just made my point


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I just decimated your point. That's what happened.

    The only time when skill at making rational enlightened argument is paramount is in academia and other technical areas. Even then it it doesn't always work how ti is supposed to. Try using that approach to get the plebs to vote for you and you will loose. Power has very little to do with being correct or having a strong argument unfortunately. Carmon is the prime example of this. He's just a PR man.
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    (Original post by Thaladan)
    No, I agree the dropping out bit doesn't mean much, but I do think that going to one of the lowest ranked universities in the UK (I don't know where exactly it was ranked when Jeremy Corbyn was there, but if it's dead last now I suspect it wasn't very high then) does indicate a relatively poor intellect.

    Concerning Cameron's education at Eton, I'm afraid I'm not sure if I understand you. Are you claiming that his admission to Oxford was primarily based on the "prestige" of Eton? If so, I disagree.
    Well judging a poly technic however many decades ago by the ranking it has as a university today is a tad daft, it may have simply have been the institute he wished to attend rather than all he could get into due to academic credentials.

    I'm claiming that in order to charge more than £150,000 for one sprogs education the teaching staff at Eton should be able to get a chimpanze into Oxford, if they can't what are they smoking that they charge such obscenely high prices.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    He doesn't have an IQ of 40 though. If we're comparing the IQs of leaders then we're probably discussing a fairly narrow band of IQs in the range of ~100-120 and within that range, I definitely do not think that IQ is by any means the most important factor. . . You can't decide who's the best leader on the basis of test results.
    I completely agree.


    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Why would I suddenly stop supporting someone who stands up for what I believe in just because somebody else scored higher in a few tests? That's absurd.
    I don't think I would stop supporting someone just because he was less intelligent than his rival either, and if I did suggest that it was unintentionally. However, I do personally find intelligence to be an attractive trait in a political leader. Would you share that sentiment?
 
 
 
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