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    (Original post by Student403)
    And who is going to determine whether they want to "give back to the community" or just make lots of money?
    Well, that is down to the individual but those who want to make money out of being a doctor won't get very far.

    Its better to enjoy what you do, than be rich and still have an unfulfilled life.
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    (Original post by German123)
    Well, that is down to individual but those who want to make money out of being a doctor won't get very far.

    Its better to enjoy what you do, than be rich and still have an unfulfilled life.
    Again, a nice sentiment but that won't work in society
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    (Original post by Student403)
    Again, a nice sentiment but that won't work in society
    If you say so.
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    (Original post by German123)
    Well, that is down to the individual but those who want to make money out of being a doctor won't get very far.

    Its better to enjoy what you do, than be rich and still have an unfulfilled life.
    Those who want to make the money will probably get the furthest.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    The same is true of opera; but there is no doubt that subsidies for higher education and opera are transfers of wealth from the poor to the well off.
    The same is true if you're to apply a reductio ad absurdum. Whilst immensely amusing to make such a comparison between opera and HE, there is somewhat more involvement by the poor in HE than in opera. The Plymouths and the Teessides thrive on the £9k from children of the precariat.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Why have you not put forward the much more likely scenario of "completely paid by the parents upfront"?
    That's obviously the same thing
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Those who want to make the money will probably get the furthest.
    Not necessarily.

    People want to make money out of being a doc but at the end of the day if you don't have the passion for it and the wilingness of mind, you are going to kill pacients and be sued for that.


    This is reality, if you work in the healthcare sector.
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    (Original post by German123)
    Not necessarily.

    People want to make money out of being a doc but at the end of the day if you don't have the passion for it and the wilingness of mind, you are going to kill pacients and be sued for that.


    This is reality, if you work in the healthcare sector.
    Not where I thought you were going to go with that sentence... :lolwut:

    If you don't have the passion for it, you'd be lucky to get through medical school let alone anywhere passed F2.
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    I think the current system is the best way available, i don't know why people complain about student debt, if you can't afford to pay it, you don't pay it back anyway, and if you can, well then you got what you paid/are paying for!
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    (Original post by difeo)
    That's obviously the same thing
    Of course it isn't.
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    (Original post by hezzlington)
    Not where I thought you were going to go with that sentence... :lolwut:

    If you don't have the passion for it, you'd be lucky to get through medical school let alone anywhere passed F2.
    If you say so.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    Of course it isn't.
    The point is it's a private payment rather than via taxes. For all intents and purposes it's the exact same thing, whether it's the child, parents or anyone else.
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    (Original post by callum_law)
    My point was that you're incorrectly presupposing that poor people do not get degrees. A lot of them do in fact get degrees, but generally from the poorer universities. Should rich people not be affronted that LJMU is charging (poor) people £9,000 for courses which cost LJMU £5,000 to deliver? Also if you're truly poor, I don't think your weekly £2.40 NI contributions are going to be paying for a toff's medicine degree.
    Of course I believe poor people get degrees! But you can't escape the fact that poor people paying taxes will necessarily be paying for rich kid's degrees (as well as everyone else's, of course)

    Yes, you can be earning 15k, paying taxes and be poor in the UK. Particularly in London. Particularly if you're supporting a family.


    There's no such thing as free education. It's just a case of who pays for it. Please explain the case for poor people paying for rich kid's degrees.

    SS
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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    Of course I believe poor people get degrees! But you can't escape the fact that poor people paying taxes will necessarily be paying for rich kid's degrees (as well as everyone else's, of course)

    Yes, you can be earning 15k, paying taxes and be poor in the UK. Particularly in London. Particularly if you're supporting a family.


    There's no such thing as free education. It's just a case of who pays for it. Please explain the case for poor people paying for rich kid's degrees.

    SS
    Do rich people not pay taxes? Rather, do the people who benefit from participation in HE (middle to upper, and some working) not pay the majority of taxes? Where do you get this warped idea that the "poor", the ones who are on 15k in London, are the ones footing the bill for the indulgences of the elite? They're not.
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    I think it's only fair that students chip in a bit for uni-quality education, however to have the price at £9000 per year is just too steep. And to take away maintenance grants as well, especially through a sneeky loophole that avoids debate in the Commons, is just plain wrong (especially since the Tories promised they would keep maintenance grants when they voted to raise tuition fees). As a result, students are going to be burdened with up to £50 000 of debt until they're 50 years old, and as a student I'm slightly deterred from uni because of this. I believe the best solution to be reducing tuition fees to at least £5000 a year, whilst also providing maintenance grants for the poorest.
    P.S. Don't you find it truly unfair that these wealthy Tory MPs had the privilege to go to Uni for free (even though their families were wealthy enough to afford public school), and now are deciding to force the poorest to pay for top quality education?
    P.P.S. If you are arguing that this will only increase taxes, then why don't you force these international megacorparations like Google and Amazon to pay what they must pay instead of hiding it all away in the Cayman islands? They would have to pay enough taxes to provided free university education for everyone?
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    (Original post by callum_law)
    Do rich people not pay taxes? Rather, do the people who benefit from participation in HE (middle to upper, and some working) not pay the majority of taxes? Where do you get this warped idea that the "poor", the ones who are on 15k in London, are the ones footing the bill for the indulgences of the elite? They're not.
    Of course rich people pay taxes! Rich people will also be paying for rich kid's degrees. (Which is already the case as rich people pay for their children's degrees)

    But if you get the taxpayer to pay for people's degrees, it is logically necessary that poor taxpayers will subsidising rich kid's degrees.

    Don't make me bring out the Venn diagram.

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    (Original post by Supersaps)
    But if you get the taxpayer to pay for people's degrees, it is logically necessary that poor taxpayers will subsidising rich kid's degrees.
    Not if they're contributing to their own higher education or their children's. If you want to lump them into groupings, as the contributions of the 15kers compared to the contributions of the 60kers, the 60kers are likely contributing disproportionately for the education of the "less fortunate in society".

    Even if the poor were contributing more towards HE than they demanded, the contribution inequity would be next to nothing. It hardly supports the claim that the "poor are paying for the rich men's degrees".
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    Right, I'm banging out a Venn

    brb
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    Diagram showing how poor people will be funding rich kid's degrees

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_e...ew?usp=sharing


    Part of any system of tuition fees being funding from public money with necessarily involve poor taxpayer's funding wealthy kid's degrees.

    Please explain to me why you think this is fair.


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    Public

    Everyone benefits from increased education, you get more specialisation in your work force, a more informed population, standards of living go up, general health improves.

    And of course lets not forget that when Blair, Cameron etc went to university it was publically funded.
 
 
 
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