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Beyonce Homage to Black Panthers Watch

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    (Original post by chosenone93)
    Here we go, more picking and choosing of what you want to hear.I may not have used the best choice of words to formulate this debate but your statements have been equally as idiotic if not worse "white people were enslaved too get over it" that was an utterly stupid false equivalence you had going on there.
    If you're not denying the less privileged commit more crime then its mystery as to why are we even have this conversation because that's essentially what my point was I was from the start.
    Bad choice of words on my part maybe with the "what do you expect" but if you want to accuse me of "sympathising" I can easily accuse you of having any empathy because all you have done so far is downplay the plight of black americans with "the get over it" mentality like the awful treatment just stopped 200 years ago.
    I've never said get over it because if you're an African American today slavery shouldn't be something you need to get over, it has not real impact today other than deciding where some people live. I think you're confusing me with someone else because I haven't spoken about white people being enslaved, although it is true. Like I've already pointed out I likely have ancestors who were slaves yet I don't feel a need to try and make people who are completely removed from it feel guilty nor would I use it to explain away why I may not be as successful as I'd hope

    (Original post by chosenone93)
    And your acting like everything has been fine and dandy for them for the past 200 years, if you want to make false conclusions from what I've said then I can do the same to you.
    No I'm saying that today black people have equal opportunities to the majority of white people. In a lot of instances, to address the imbalance in the make up of certain industries ethnic minorities are given preferential treatment. You're problem is you're so wrapped up in what happened when pensioners were children and you're ignoring what things are like today.

    (Original post by chosenone93)
    Hmmm 35 years for killing a horse and breaking someones collar bone bet that wouldn't be justified if he was white.
    Well Christopher Williams (a white man) is facing 86 years in prison for growing marijuana despite being a medical marijuana provider. Norman Schmidt was sentenced to 330 years for fraud. There are numerous cases of white people committing the most severe of crimes (rape and murder) but being sentenced to hundreds if not thousands of years in prison.


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    Okay, before I put my two cents in PLEASE watch this video.

    https://www.facebook.com/Enlightenme...7/?pnref=story

    It’s a 20 minute video but it’s worth the watch if you want to educate yourself on racism, in short it’s about how racists are in denial.

    The first thing I want to address is the ridicules comparison I saw a few pages ago about how the black panthers are the same are the jihadist.

    First off the most obvious difference is that the jihadi a RELIGIOUS movement, they do what they do because they follow a 'MAKE BELIVE' Allah who have informed them to kill the non-believers (I personally believe in a peaceful god however many people can argue that god doesn’t even exist thus making the jihadi groups actions all for nothing. They are basing their hate on a 'fictional' being that does not exist)

    The black panthers are a SOCIAL movement which was created to PROTECT black people and STAND up for their rights, this was because back in the past a huge issue of black people being treated like sub humans by people of non-colour.

    Can you see the difference now? No?

    Jihadi= fighting for a 'fictional' god

    Black panthers= fighting for their rights because people of non-colour would abuse their power.

    This worries me that people would compare these two together because if you still hold the ideal that they are exactly the same then you must believe the black panthers are fighting for a 'fictional cause'.

    Which leads me to my second point, if you watched the video then you’ve seen how white people can be so oblivious to everyday racism, that people of colour face daily. In order to fight racism you must first acknowledge white supremacy and your white privileges. In a country like in the UK, specify London there are a lot of POC (people of colour) yet walking down the high street you will see more white models and stores that accommodate to the majority white needs.

    You know what? Try typing in beauty onto the google search engine. I guarantee you will find at least a sh*t ton more white people than any one of colour. And you know what else is fairly humorous? When you type in dreadlocks (a protective hairstyle commonly used by people of colour) you will still see that a huge majority of them are white rather than black! If that’s Bullsh*t I don’t know what it..

    Lastly, I believe that Beyoncé is paying homage to the black panthers because like back in the 1980s, black lives where being lost all the time because of white supremacy. In America, right now hearing about another black boy being wrongfully shot by the police is the norm. Black people fear for their lives in America; if they can’t turn to the people that are meant to be protecting them then who else will they turn to? Maybe the group that is made up by black individuals that are sick and tired of being second class citizens. I don’t condemn the killing of anyone because of their race, but when you push people to a wall, take away the freedom and safety they are entitled too, they will lash back.

    We should be asking if Beyoncé is paying homage to the original black panthers, a group created to combat white supremacy or the neo black panthers who after years of racism have just become anti-white. I believe she’s supporting the original black panthers because the day of the super bowl was the day the original black panthers was born.

    A lot of people have gotten upset over Beyoncé’s bold statement, to the point where multiple discussions and news threads have been made to either slam her or question her credibility. Yet no one questions why she would have done it in the first place. You have to see the bigger issue here to truly understand.
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    (Original post by Taefella)
    No it's the people who are making a fuss out of something that for once DOESN'T involve them
    So, people of other races don't have the right to discuss issues, which aren't about their race? Last time I checked, the Black Panthers were part of American history and therefore affect all Americans.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    in this case one may think it's white people.
    Actually, criticism is coming from across the political and racial spectrum. This is not simply a race issue. There are political implications as well.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    You guys are the ones who are making Beyonce's song and video or homage to Black Panthers seem like it's soo bad. it's not about you so why y'all complaining smh
    This isn't simply about it being an homage nor is it that it's 'bad'. More importantly, it's the statement attached with it: racism is fine, as long as it's black-on-white. The Black Panthers were not about civil rights; they were a racist group.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    So, people of other races don't have the right to discuss issues, which aren't about their race? Last time I checked, the Black Panthers were part of American history and therefore affect all Americans.

    The thing is I don't see no South Americans or Asians complaining! so to me your point is invalid, it is the White Americans who are complaining and pulling out all possible bad aspects of her homage or the fact that she's saying I'm black and I'm proud. You, haters, are misunderstanding the true meaning of this song, y'all don't get it and y'all don't take time to get it either so miss me with the bull of affecting all Americans, NOT ALL AMERICANS ARE COMPLAINING. If you discuss the issues of another race you look at the positive and negative aspects of the issue, you don't bash the race nor their issues. AND FORMATION isn't an issue, it's an anthem, a positive anthem for BLACK PEOPLE to ENJOY and BE PROUD of who we are FOR ONCE since we get degraded all the time one way or another. So please let us enjoy FORMATION whether you like it or not. Honey there's black history month for a reason - Black Panthers is apart of that, I see where you're coming from but black history doesn't get acknowledged as much as the rest of Americans history.

    Actually, criticism is coming from across the political and racial spectrum. This is not simply a race issue.
    THAN WHAT ISSUE IS IT? Beyonce didn't mean no harm, she was just spreading a message to her black people: we are good, with our 'ghetto selfs' with our negro nosed selfs whether others like it or not, we should be proud of we are - RACE will always be linked to different things including politics. I just don't see the freaking issue, y'all acting as if she did something that could be classed as an abomination but all she really did was stand for her race and appreciate it.


    This isn't simply about it being an homage nor is it that it's 'bad'. More importantly, it's the statement attached with it: racism is fine, as long as it's black-on-white. The Black Panthers were not about civil rights; they were a racist group.
    See, you get the negative side of the black panthers, we THE BLACK PEOPLE we look at they did, how they stood up for their race at that time! OFCOURSE SOMETIMES THEY DIDN't do it in a violent way that is out of order but we don't look at that because right now police are doing outchea shooting and what not to our people you think we like that? NO. That's why we're appreciating what our ancestors did in order for us to be at the place we are right now and STILL we are fighting for our rights. This is the reason why it's an issue you guys don't see it from our perspective because y'all feel offending and all that. Sorry not so sorry.
    And about th message: LISTEN TO EVERY SINGLE WORD SHE SAYS IN THE FREAKING SONG then read some of the good comments, then maybe you'll get an idea of the REAL message. She never conveys the idea of racism being fine, she's saying degrading my people isn't fine and she's telling black people, our body features and hair are beautiful, they've been in America for too long for this sh*t to be still going on and through all our flaws and 'ghetto' habits and slang: WE ARE STILL AMAZING and WE SHOULD NEVER GIVE UP. She's adressing the conflict, the killing of innocent children,teenagers,men just WHY SHOULD THAT HAPPEN. The stereotypical imagery of a black person, we should show it loud and proud because y'all love it anyway if y'all didn't y'all wouldn't be showing off our beautiful black culture everyday. THAT'S THE MESSAGE NOT RACISM IS FINE BLAH BLAH BLAH, who told you that? where did she even say or even convey that sort of message? CLEAN YOUR EARS AND SHINE YOUR EYES WHILST WATCHING THE MUSIC VIDEO AND LISTENING TO THE SONG MY FRIEND.

    Nice debating with you,
    Love
    Taefella aka proud West African Princess xx
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    (Original post by MuffinzMed)
    Okay, before I put my two cents in PLEASE watch this video.

    https://www.facebook.com/Enlightenme...7/?pnref=story

    It’s a 20 minute video but it’s worth the watch if you want to educate yourself on racism, in short it’s about how racists are in denial.

    The first thing I want to address is the ridicules comparison I saw a few pages ago about how the black panthers are the same are the jihadist.

    First off the most obvious difference is that the jihadi a RELIGIOUS movement, they do what they do because they follow a 'MAKE BELIVE' Allah who have informed them to kill the non-believers (I personally believe in a peaceful god however many people can argue that god doesn’t even exist thus making the jihadi groups actions all for nothing. They are basing their hate on a 'fictional' being that does not exist)

    The black panthers are a SOCIAL movement which was created to PROTECT black people and STAND up for their rights, this was because back in the past a huge issue of black people being treated like sub humans by people of non-colour.

    Can you see the difference now? No?

    Jihadi= fighting for a 'fictional' god

    Black panthers= fighting for their rights because people of non-colour would abuse their power.

    This worries me that people would compare these two together because if you still hold the ideal that they are exactly the same then you must believe the black panthers are fighting for a 'fictional cause'.

    Which leads me to my second point, if you watched the video then you’ve seen how white people can be so oblivious to everyday racism, that people of colour face daily. In order to fight racism you must first acknowledge white supremacy and your white privileges. In a country like in the UK, specify London there are a lot of POC (people of colour) yet walking down the high street you will see more white models and stores that accommodate to the majority white needs.

    You know what? Try typing in beauty onto the google search engine. I guarantee you will find at least a sh*t ton more white people than any one of colour. And you know what else is fairly humorous? When you type in dreadlocks (a protective hairstyle commonly used by people of colour) you will still see that a huge majority of them are white rather than black! If that’s Bullsh*t I don’t know what it..

    Lastly, I believe that Beyoncé is paying homage to the black panthers because like back in the 1980s, black lives where being lost all the time because of white supremacy. In America, right now hearing about another black boy being wrongfully shot by the police is the norm. Black people fear for their lives in America; if they can’t turn to the people that are meant to be protecting them then who else will they turn to? Maybe the group that is made up by black individuals that are sick and tired of being second class citizens. I don’t condemn the killing of anyone because of their race, but when you push people to a wall, take away the freedom and safety they are entitled too, they will lash back.

    We should be asking if Beyoncé is paying homage to the original black panthers, a group created to combat white supremacy or the neo black panthers who after years of racism have just become anti-white. I believe she’s supporting the original black panthers because the day of the super bowl was the day the original black panthers was born.

    A lot of people have gotten upset over Beyoncé’s bold statement, to the point where multiple discussions and news threads have been made to either slam her or question her credibility. Yet no one questions why she would have done it in the first place. You have to see the bigger issue here to truly understand.
    Couldn't have said it any better G, Aceadria maybe you should read his comment too
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    (Original post by Taefella)
    See, you get the negative side of the black panthers, we THE BLACK PEOPLE we look at they did, how they stood up for their race at that time! OFCOURSE SOMETIMES THEY DIDN't do it in a violent way
    Well, sometimes the KKK also didn't lynch people. It does not mean the organisation is any less evil.


    (Original post by Taefella)
    that is out of order but we don't look at that because right now police are doing outchea shooting and what not to our people you think we like that? NO.
    As you shouldn't. But to bring up the Black Panthers, a known racist and terrorist organisation and use it as your 'symbol' made a legitimate plight, unlawful and morally wrong. Violence and racism applies to all; not just blacks.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    That's why we're appreciating what our ancestors did in order for us to be at the place we are right now and STILL we are fighting for our rights. This is the reason why it's an issue you guys don't see it from our perspective because y'all feel offending and all that. Sorry not so sorry.
    Believe me, MLK would be very disgusted with what the Black Lives Matter movement has become. Any individual with knowledge of history would know this.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    And about th message: LISTEN TO EVERY SINGLE WORD SHE SAYS IN THE FREAKING SONG then read some of the good comments, then maybe you'll get an idea of the REAL message. She never conveys the idea of racism being fine, she's saying degrading my people isn't fine and she's telling black people, our body features and hair are beautiful, they've been in America for too long for this sh*t to be still going on and through all our flaws and 'ghetto' habits and slang: WE ARE STILL AMAZING and WE SHOULD NEVER GIVE UP.
    And she did this dressed up as a Black Panther - a known terrorist and racist organisation. That made the whole 'black pride' issue moot. You're essentially promoting racial superiority rather than pride (the very definition of racism).

    (Original post by Taefella)
    She's adressing the conflict, the killing of innocent children,teenagers,men just WHY SHOULD THAT HAPPEN.
    Few are denying there isn't a race problem in the U.S. The problem is that the Black Lives Matter movement is far too divided, with anarchists and racists overrunning the movement and using it to push for their own agenda (e.g. Black Panthers).

    (Original post by Taefella)
    The stereotypical imagery of a black person, we should show it loud and proud because y'all love it anyway if y'all didn't y'all wouldn't be showing off our beautiful black culture everyday. THAT'S THE MESSAGE NOT RACISM IS FINE BLAH BLAH BLAH, who told you that? where did she even say or even convey that sort of message? CLEAN YOUR EARS AND SHINE YOUR EYES WHILST WATCHING THE MUSIC VIDEO AND LISTENING TO THE SONG MY FRIEND.
    Please define what 'black' culture is before being proud of it.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    Taefella aka proud West African Princess xx
    Interesting how highly you think of yourself, when you're talking about wanting equality.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Well, sometimes the KKK also didn't lynch people. It does not mean the organisation is any less evil.

    My friend, the KKK is something totally different. and by people you mean BLACK PEOPLE.


    As you shouldn't. But to bring up the Black Panthers, a known racist and terrorist organisation and use it as your 'symbol' made a legitimate plight, unlawful and morally wrong. Violence and racism applies to all; not just blacks.

    this is why people of other race especially white and black people will never see eye to eye. You just see the Black Panthers as NEGATIVE ASS F*CKERS whilst I see them as Black heroes who stood up for their right no matter what. The black panthers being 'racist' and a 'terrorist organisation' is not the first thing that would or should pop up in someone's mind but hey whatever floats your boat.



    Believe me, MLK would be very disgusted with what the Black Lives Matter movement has become. Any individual with knowledge of history would know this.
    You know what else Pops King will be disgusted with: the way police men are shooting his children, the fact that his dream is still just a dream. He knows why we're doing what we're doing because after all those years and all the blood and sweat shed. We're still a minority. He would be disappointed at the fact that it has come to the time where violence is involved but never would he have been disgusted my friend. Pops Malcolm would be angry at what's going on and would want violence to be the key to equality since silence protest STILL AIN'T WORKING. They would be PROUD of Beyonce's homage and her song because they know in times like these that's what us black folks need.


    And she did this dressed up as a Black Panther - a known terrorist and racist organisation. That made the whole 'black pride' issue moot. You're essentially promoting racial superiority rather than pride (the very definition of racism).
    THATS ALL YOU SEEEE RACISM RACISM RACISM just because we did the same thing white folks did and still do to black folks it's horribly wrong. it's as if you just IGNORE the perspective of a black person, we don't see the negative aspects of the Black Panthers like y'all do. We know it's wrong and we won't repeat it but that doesn't mean we aren't going to appreciate what they did, the courage they had to stand up and fight.
    Some history:
    The Black Panthers were formed in California in 1966 and they played a short but important part in the civil rightsmovement. The Black Panthers believed that the non-violent campaign of Martin Luther King had failed and any promised changes to their lifestyle via the ‘traditional’ civil rights movement, would take too long to be implemented or simply not introduced. The language of the Black Panthers was violent as was their public stance. The two founders of the Black Panther Party were Huey Percy Newton and Bobby Seale. They preached for a “revolutionary war” but though they considered themselves an African-American party, they were willing to speak out for all those who were oppressed from whatever minority group. They were willing to use violence to get what they wanted.The Black Panther Party (BPP) had four desires : equality in education, housing, employment and civil rights. It had a 10 Point Plan to get its desired goals.The ten points of the party platform were:
    1) “Freedom; the power to determine the destiny of the Black and oppressed communities.2) Full Employment; give every person employment or guaranteed income.3) End to robbery of Black communities; the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules as promised to ex-slaves during the reconstruction period following the emancipation of slavery.4) Decent housing fit for the shelter of human beings; the land should be made into cooperatives so that the people can build.5) Education for the people; that teaches the true history of Blacks and their role in present day society.6) Free health care; health facilities which will develop preventive medical programs.7) End to police brutality and murder of Black people and other people of color and oppressed people.8) End to all wars of aggression; the various conflicts which exist stem directly from the United States ruling circle.9) Freedom for all political prisoners; trials by juries that represent our peers.10) Land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice, peace and community control of modern industry.”
    To view the BPP as a purely revolutionary and violent movement is wrong. In areas of support the BPP created a Free Food Program to feed those who could not afford to do so for themselves; Free Medical Research Health Clinics to provide basic health care for those who could not afford it and an Intercommunal Youth Band to give community pride to the movement. In a book of his essays called “To Die for the People”, Huey Newton wrote that these were exactly what the African-American community wanted and that the BPP was providing its own people with something the government was not. Such community projects have survived in other guises, but after the demise of the BPP their lost their drive for a number of years.




    Few are denying there isn't a race problem in the U.S. The problem is that the Black Lives Matter movement is far too divided, with anarchists and racists overrunning the movement and using it to push for their own agenda (e.g. Black Panthers).
    No offense but personally I think you're too narrow minded to even consider the other part of the argument. You just think it's all bad then tell me how should on protest for equal rights in a white privileged nation.


    Please define what 'black' culture is before being proud of it.
    People like you are the reasons why Beyonce made the song Formation, and that's why y'all mad.
    You want black culture whether it's African or Caribbean or African American, Google it. You're surrounded by it but you're too blind to see it.
    There's no need for me to define anything for you before I could be proud of who I am. I WILL NEVER BE ASHAMED NOR EMBARRASSED NOR DOWN GRADED OR BASHED FOR BEING BLACK. I.Am.A.VERY.Proud.BLACK GIRL. and I love my culture.


    Interesting how highly you think of yourself, when you're talking about wanting equality.
    Lol, you're joker. How does being proud of being black, accepting my 'blackness' have to do with equality. So I should say being black is awful, being black is a no no? Or I should hide the fact that I'm black? You got me f*cked up on a whole 'nother level. I was born black. I'll live black and be proud of it. I'll die black.
    It's very important for a black person to embrace the fact that they're black especially in our society and the way people like you view us. So news flash baby: I'm an PROUD black girl who will become a proud black woman who will teach her children to be comfortable in their skin and to be never ashamed of being black because Black is also very beautiful.
    Have a nice life buddy, I hope you lose some of your negative energy.
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    (Original post by Taefella)
    My friend, the KKK is something totally different. and by people you mean BLACK PEOPLE.
    You're right; the KKK are a white supremacist group whereas the Black Panthers were black. The methods were drastically different, but the core ideals similar.


    (Original post by Taefella)
    this is why people of other race especially white and black people will never see eye to eye. You just see the Black Panthers as NEGATIVE ASS F*CKERS whilst I see them as Black heroes who stood up for their right no matter what. The black panthers being 'racist' and a 'terrorist organisation' is not the first thing that would or should pop up in someone's mind but hey whatever floats your boat.
    Well, I'm not here to teach the ignorant history but instead to make it clear that you are supporting a racist organisation. If you want to continue being part of the problem, so be it.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    You know what else Pops King will be disgusted with: the way police men are shooting his children, the fact that his dream is still just a dream.
    You're digressing now. Stick to the topic.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    He knows why we're doing what we're doing because after all those years and all the blood and sweat shed. We're still a minority.
    Well, in terms of numbers, black Americans are still the minority. Legally, they are protected by the law. But the issue is that the law enforcers aren't always exercising this equality. You're not helping this by spewing division and supporting a racist and terrorist organisation.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    He would be disappointed at the fact that it has come to the time where violence is involved but never would he have been disgusted my friend. Pops Malcolm would be angry at what's going on and would want violence to be the key to equality since silence protest STILL AIN'T WORKING. They would be PROUD of Beyonce's homage and her song because they know in times like these that's what us black folks need.
    Again, you're digressing. Your past comments show you have little knowledge of MLK or his legacy. Don't tarnish his name with your hatred. He was a pacifist.


    (Original post by Taefella)
    THATS ALL YOU SEEEE RACISM RACISM RACISM just because we did the same thing white folks did and still do to black folks it's horribly wrong. it's as if you just IGNORE the perspective of a black person, we don't see the negative aspects of the Black Panthers like y'all do. We know it's wrong and we won't repeat it but that doesn't mean we aren't going to appreciate what they did, the courage they had to stand up and fight.
    So, because the 'whites' committed heinous crimes, you will do the same? Interesting. Truth be told, you're not any better than the very people you're fighting against and therefore you've proved my earlier point to be true. Thank you.


    (Original post by Taefella)
    Some history:
    The Black Panthers were formed in California in 1966 and they played a short but important part in the civil rightsmovement. The Black Panthers believed that the non-violent campaign of Martin Luther King had failed and any promised changes to their lifestyle via the ‘traditional’ civil rights movement, would take too long to be implemented or simply not introduced. The language of the Black Panthers was violent as was their public stance. The two founders of the Black Panther Party were Huey Percy Newton and Bobby Seale. They preached for a “revolutionary war” but though they considered themselves an African-American party, they were willing to speak out for all those who were oppressed from whatever minority group. They were willing to use violence to get what they wanted.The Black Panther Party (BPP) had four desires : equality in education, housing, employment and civil rights. It had a 10 Point Plan to get its desired goals.The ten points of the party platform were:
    And you say that MLK would be OK with all this? Please search: "pacifism".

    (Original post by Taefella)
    No offense but personally I think you're too narrow minded to even consider the other part of the argument. You just think it's all bad then tell me how should on protest for equal rights in a white privileged nation.
    This isn't really a retort to my earlier point. Try again.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    People like you are the reasons why Beyonce made the song Formation, and that's why y'all mad.
    You want black culture whether it's African or Caribbean or African American, Google it. You're surrounded by it but you're too blind to see it.
    There's no need for me to define anything for you before I could be proud of who I am. I WILL NEVER BE ASHAMED NOR EMBARRASSED NOR DOWN GRADED OR BASHED FOR BEING BLACK. I.Am.A.VERY.Proud.BLACK GIRL. and I love my culture.
    Perfect deflection. You haven't answered my question. You're proud of something you can't even define.

    (Original post by Taefella)
    Lol, you're joker. How does being proud of being black, accepting my 'blackness' have to do with equality. So I should say being black is awful, being black is a no no? Or I should hide the fact that I'm black? You got me f*cked up on a whole 'nother level. I was born black. I'll live black and be proud of it. I'll die black.
    It's very important for a black person to embrace the fact that they're black especially in our society and the way people like you view us. So news flash baby: I'm an PROUD black girl who will become a proud black woman who will teach her children to be comfortable in their skin and to be never ashamed of being black because Black is also very beautiful.
    Have a nice life buddy, I hope you lose some of your negative energy.
    It actually referred to you calling yourself 'princess'.



    All in all, this shows something very clearly: You want to be taken seriously? Answer the questions put forward to you or else people will continue taking your movement as a joke.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Well, sometimes the KKK also didn't lynch people. It does not mean the organisation is any less evil.
    Abhorrent as they are anyway, I'm pretty sure a KKK that didn't lynch people was less evil than a KKK that did.

    As you shouldn't. But to bring up the Black Panthers, a known racist and terrorist organisation
    In what way were they "terrorist"? There are valid arguments that some of the Panthers occasionally engaged in criminal violence, but that's rather different.

    As for racist, it's a funny racist organisation that had a sister organisation of white people (the White Panther Party) and formed an explicitly multiethnic campaign group of white, Hispanic, Native American and other far-left groups (the Rainbow Coalition), and whose leaders regularly denounced racist groups, including black racist ones (and those who remain alive, such as Bobby Seale, continue to do so). Also, the SPLC, the main NGO documenting hate groups in the US, makes it clear in its section on black racist groups that the Black Panthers were not a racist group.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Abhorrent as they are anyway, I'm pretty sure a KKK that didn't lynch people was less evil than a KKK that did.
    Not the point. We're discussing ideas; not actions.

    (Original post by anarchism101)
    In what way were they "terrorist"? There are valid arguments that some of the Panthers occasionally engaged in criminal violence, but that's rather different.
    Taken from the FBI website (https://vault.fbi.gov/Black%20Panther%20Party%20):
    (Original post by FBI)
    It advocated the use of violence and guerilla tactics to overthrow the U.S. government.
    (Original post by anarchism101)
    As for racist, it's a funny racist organisation that had a sister organisation of white people (the White Panther Party) and formed an explicitly multiethnic campaign group of white, Hispanic, Native American and other far-left groups (the Rainbow Coalition), and whose leaders regularly denounced racist groups, including black racist ones (and those who remain alive, such as Bobby Seale, continue to do so). Also, the SPLC, the main NGO documenting hate groups in the US, makes it clear in its section on black racist groups that the Black Panthers were not a racist group.
    The White Panther Party was not created by members of the BPP but in response to it (to show solidarity with the movement). This does not mean the BPP were any less racist.

    As far as the SPLC, I would be interested to see the source, which states that the Black Panthers Party was not racist, seeing as it clearly states that New Black Panthers Party is a "virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization" (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...-panther-party)
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    (Original post by JezWeCan!)
    The point was that the past is the past, you have to move on.

    The American slaves were freed in 1865. That is more than ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY years ago.

    Now you point to the black codes and Jim Crow provisions. They only applied to the former Confederacy, so any African American in three quarters of the US was not subject to them, and those in the South could freely move to a former non slave State at any time And many did.

    Further they were all abolished, finally, in 1965. MORE THAN FIFTY YEARS AGO.

    So I ask you, why are current day African Americans so prone to drugs, and gangs and crime and killing each other?

    There is significant positive discrimination. Work hard and it is much easier for an African American to get into Harvard than a white of the same intelligence.

    Because there is this glorying in victim hood, that is why. This playing on white guilt and production of the race card.

    The world is a tough place, and compared to black people in most parts of it, African Americans are in a great position.. The American Dream is there for anyone, black or white. And ironically Beyonce herself, the source of this thread is living it.
    Unfortunately this post epitomises 'white privilege' and is indicative of your immense naivete on the issue in the real world. As a white person, you've obviously never had to deal with [institutionalised] racism (maybe bigotry/prejudice/discrimination but not racism). You can afford to be "colourblind" (a silly term IMO) because you don't have to be reminded about your race on a daily basis, so when a person of colour highlights when they are subject to racially motivated acts, they are "playing the race card" or "playing the victim" (which we supposedly find glory in... :confused:).

    Again, you're very naive to believe that the abolishing of slavery ended racism when the aftermath is still observed today. If you want to educate yourself and find out why current African Americans are prone to drugs and crime, etc. then you can consult the following sources which explain how the "ghetto" was formed and how extensive amounts of cocaine were imported into these communities which had incredible consequences as you highlighted:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/13/how-we-built-the-ghettos.html
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/blacks-targeted.html

    When you prevent a whole class of people from building wealth, accessing capital, or leaving impoverished areas, you guarantee cultural dysfunction and deep, generational poverty which is very difficult to get out of!

    OF COURSE we want to "move on" as you so lightly put it, but we can't when black people are being shot and abused in America on such a regular basis purely based on the colour of their skin (trust me, I know, I've had friends who have experienced this first hand).
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    (Original post by AffirmedCube)
    Unfortunately this post epitomises 'white privilege' and is indicative of your immense naivete on the issue in the real world. As a white person, you've obviously never had to deal with [institutionalised] racism (maybe bigotry/prejudice/discrimination but not racism). You can afford to be "colourblind" (a silly term IMO) because you don't have to be reminded about your race on a daily basis, so when a person of colour highlights when they are subject to racially motivated acts, they are "playing the race card" or "playing the victim" (which we supposedly find glory in... :confused:).

    Again, you're very naive to believe that the abolishing of slavery ended racism when the aftermath is still observed today. If you want to educate yourself and find out why current African Americans are prone to drugs and crime, etc. then you can consult the following sources which explain how the "ghetto" was formed and how extensive amounts of cocaine were imported into these communities which had incredible consequences as you highlighted:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/13/how-we-built-the-ghettos.html
    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/blacks-targeted.html

    When you prevent a whole class of people from building wealth, accessing capital, or leaving impoverished areas, you guarantee cultural dysfunction and deep, generational poverty which is very difficult to get out of!

    OF COURSE we want to "move on" as you so lightly put it, but we can't when black people are being shot and abused in America on such a regular basis purely based on the colour of their skin (trust me, I know, I've had friends who have experienced this first hand).
    Does an African American baby born today have a better chance of a prosperous life than a current African child in the countries from whom his ancestors were plucked to become slaves?

    I put it to you that the answer is yes, they have access to much better health care, job opportunities, all the advantages of the luck that comes from being born in the First World, not the Third.

    So, although the ancestors had appalling lives, their descendants have turned out to be the lucky ones. The descendants of the Africans that captured and sold them to the slave traders have remained in Africa, living in broken, failed societies with grinding poverty and corruption.

    What the African Americans choose to make of that opportunity of course is down to them. Some work hard and go to Harvard, many turn to crime and gangs and console themselves with blaming whitey.
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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Taken from the FBI website (https://vault.fbi.gov/Black%20Panther%20Party%20):
    Which doesn't call them terrorists. That they "advocated the use of violence and guerilla tactics to overthrow the U.S. government" is an opinion, not an action.

    Additionally, terrorism is generally understood to be a tactic of violence, directed against civilians or at least civilian infrastructure. None of which is necessarily implied by a desire to overthrow the US government through violence.

    The White Panther Party was not created by members of the BPP but in response to it (to show solidarity with the movement). This does not mean the BPP were any less racist.

    As far as the SPLC, I would be interested to see the source, which states that the Black Panthers Party was not racist, seeing as it clearly states that New Black Panthers Party is a "virulently racist and anti-Semitic organization" (https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...-panther-party)
    It says it in that link you've just given on the NBPP:

    "principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s— a militant, but non-racist, left-wing organization — have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol."
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    So the "sympathising with criminals" deflection is still going on despite me explicitly stating todays racism is no excuse to be commiting crime. All these people want to do is demonise the blacks and sweep up everything whites do under a rug not wasting my time anymore its got to be guilt they're feeling deep down.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Which doesn't call them terrorists. That they "advocated the use of violence and guerilla tactics to overthrow the U.S. government" is an opinion, not an action.
    Definition of terrorism: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investi...ism-definition

    Based on this, their actions can be defined as terrorism.

    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Additionally, terrorism is generally understood to be a tactic of violence, directed against civilians or at least civilian infrastructure. None of which is necessarily implied by a desire to overthrow the US government through violence.
    Not necessarily. The principle factor is to influence policy by intimidation or coercion.



    (Original post by anarchism101)
    It says it in that link you've just given on the NBPP:

    "principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s— a militant, but non-racist, left-wing organization — have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol."
    Should have read the article more thoroughly. Thanks!
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    (Original post by chosenone93)
    So the "sympathising with criminals" deflection is still going on despite me explicitly stating todays racism is no excuse to be commiting crime. All these people want to do is demonise the blacks and sweep up everything whites do under a rug not wasting my time anymore its got to be guilt they're feeling deep down.
    Haha deflection...

    There you go again, 'demonise the blacks' you're so dramatic


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    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Definition of terrorism: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investi...ism-definition

    Based on this, their actions can be defined as terrorism.

    Not necessarily. The principle factor is to influence policy by intimidation or coercion.
    But that's rather different from overthrowing the government, otherwise we'd have to class every historical rebel group ever as "terrorist", which would render it pretty much empty as a term.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    Haha deflection...

    There you go again, 'demonise the blacks' you're so dramatic


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    everything non white is a "terrorist oraganisation" i've so far gathered.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    But that's rather different from overthrowing the government, otherwise we'd have to class every historical rebel group ever as "terrorist", which would render it pretty much empty as a term.
    Isn't that like what every government does when it faces groups that want to overthrow it? :holmes:

    For every word there is a technical definition and a political definition that can be made to mean almost anything for propaganda purposes making discourse and debate very difficult. See this thread.
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    (Original post by chosenone93)
    everything non white is a "terrorist oraganisation" i've so far gathered.
    You respond to being called dramatic by being dramatic?


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