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Universities "Prestige" Ranking
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Reply 20
17
IR Postgraduate
I can speak to perceptions in the United States/North America. Many people view Oxbridge, St Andrews, and the LSE as the most prestigious universities in the United Kingdom. These institutions are often considered near equals in the US, with a slight edge going to Oxbridge. Most others are relatively unknown.
seriously though why St Andrews?
not coz of William, tell me its not purely coz of Prince Wills.
Reply 21
14
I think the OP is kind of right in his table.
But this debate will go on forever.
But this debate will go on forever.
Reply 22
the debate will go on because there are no teaching or research quality scores generally, so judging the quality of an institution becomes difficult.
Reply 23
I think there are a few reasons why St Andrews is so highly regarded in the US, which include:
1. They began recruiting students at some of the absolute top prep schools in the US roughly 30 years ago and this has helped raise their profile. Many of the students who matriculate at St Andrews have also been accepted to Ivy League/Top 20 institutions in the US. They tend to rave about the place, billing it as a Scottish Ivy, and this in turn contributes to St Andrews' prestige. In short, some of the best students from the US attend St Andrews, love it, and tell their friends.
2. Prince William and a number of other high-profile people have attended St Andrews over the past five years and this represents the equivalent of a celebrity endorsement, attesting to its quality. If Americans hear that the future King attended St Andrews then they're left with the impression that it's a premier institution (in my opinion, it is...).
3. St Andrews has one of the best IR programs in the world and Americans are made well aware of that fact. The largest proportion of Americans at St Andrews study IR and many view it as a solid alternative to Georgetown, Columbia, etc. Further, it has exchanges with Princeton, Georgetown, University of Pennsylvania, and Emory that help its reputation in the US.
4. The place is truly unique, with all sorts of ancient traditions, and Americans enjoy the ambiance. St Andrews is a small community with amazing beaches, medieval architecture, and lots of charm. Robes, balls, garden parties, beach parties, etc. are appealing to some Americans.
5. St Andrews is home to some of the best golf courses in the world, including the Old Course. Americans tend to view golf as a wealthy/posh sport and St Andrews is the Mecca of golf. Much of the prestige associated with the town is also applied to the university.
6. One finds some amazing, small liberal arts colleges in the US and St Andrews is in many ways reminiscent of these institutions. The major reason why St Andrews isn't routinely in the top five is its size. The rankings tend to place a high value on research, but overlook things that places like St Andrews do very well. Liberal arts colleges tend to value teaching, student interaction, and personal development. Americans like the personal attention that comes with this more intimate, student-oriented environment.
1. They began recruiting students at some of the absolute top prep schools in the US roughly 30 years ago and this has helped raise their profile. Many of the students who matriculate at St Andrews have also been accepted to Ivy League/Top 20 institutions in the US. They tend to rave about the place, billing it as a Scottish Ivy, and this in turn contributes to St Andrews' prestige. In short, some of the best students from the US attend St Andrews, love it, and tell their friends.
2. Prince William and a number of other high-profile people have attended St Andrews over the past five years and this represents the equivalent of a celebrity endorsement, attesting to its quality. If Americans hear that the future King attended St Andrews then they're left with the impression that it's a premier institution (in my opinion, it is...).
3. St Andrews has one of the best IR programs in the world and Americans are made well aware of that fact. The largest proportion of Americans at St Andrews study IR and many view it as a solid alternative to Georgetown, Columbia, etc. Further, it has exchanges with Princeton, Georgetown, University of Pennsylvania, and Emory that help its reputation in the US.
4. The place is truly unique, with all sorts of ancient traditions, and Americans enjoy the ambiance. St Andrews is a small community with amazing beaches, medieval architecture, and lots of charm. Robes, balls, garden parties, beach parties, etc. are appealing to some Americans.
5. St Andrews is home to some of the best golf courses in the world, including the Old Course. Americans tend to view golf as a wealthy/posh sport and St Andrews is the Mecca of golf. Much of the prestige associated with the town is also applied to the university.
6. One finds some amazing, small liberal arts colleges in the US and St Andrews is in many ways reminiscent of these institutions. The major reason why St Andrews isn't routinely in the top five is its size. The rankings tend to place a high value on research, but overlook things that places like St Andrews do very well. Liberal arts colleges tend to value teaching, student interaction, and personal development. Americans like the personal attention that comes with this more intimate, student-oriented environment.
Reply 24
protest!~~~~~~completely disagree with some ranks!!
Reply 25
14
IR Postgraduate
I think there are a few reasons why St Andrews is so highly regarded in the US, which include:
1. They began recruiting students at some of the absolute top prep schools in the US roughly 30 years ago and this has helped raise their profile. Many of the students who matriculate at St Andrews have also been accepted to Ivy League/Top 20 institutions in the US. They tend to rave about the place, billing it as a Scottish Ivy, and this in turn contributes to St Andrews' prestige. In short, some of the best students from the US attend St Andrews, love it, and tell their friends.
2. Prince William and a number of other high-profile people have attended St Andrews over the past five years and this represents the equivalent of a celebrity endorsement, attesting to its quality. If Americans hear that the future King attended St Andrews then they're left with the impression that it's a premier institution (in my opinion, it is...).
3. St Andrews has one of the best IR programs in the world and Americans are made well aware of that fact. The largest proportion of Americans at St Andrews study IR and many view it as a solid alternative to Georgetown, Columbia, etc. Further, it has exchanges with Princeton, Georgetown, University of Pennsylvania, and Emory that help its reputation in the US.
4. The place is truly unique, with all sorts of ancient traditions, and Americans enjoy the ambiance. St Andrews is a small community with amazing beaches, medieval architecture, and lots of charm. Robes, balls, garden parties, beach parties, etc. are appealing to some Americans.
5. St Andrews is home to some of the best golf courses in the world, including the Old Course. Americans tend to view golf as a wealthy/posh sport and St Andrews is the Mecca of golf. Much of the prestige associated with the town is also applied to the university.
6. One finds some amazing, small liberal arts colleges in the US and St Andrews is in many ways reminiscent of these institutions. The major reason why St Andrews isn't routinely in the top five is its size. The rankings tend to place a high value on research, but overlook things that places like St Andrews do very well. Liberal arts colleges tend to value teaching, student interaction, and personal development. Americans like the personal attention that comes with this more intimate, student-oriented environment.
1. They began recruiting students at some of the absolute top prep schools in the US roughly 30 years ago and this has helped raise their profile. Many of the students who matriculate at St Andrews have also been accepted to Ivy League/Top 20 institutions in the US. They tend to rave about the place, billing it as a Scottish Ivy, and this in turn contributes to St Andrews' prestige. In short, some of the best students from the US attend St Andrews, love it, and tell their friends.
2. Prince William and a number of other high-profile people have attended St Andrews over the past five years and this represents the equivalent of a celebrity endorsement, attesting to its quality. If Americans hear that the future King attended St Andrews then they're left with the impression that it's a premier institution (in my opinion, it is...).
3. St Andrews has one of the best IR programs in the world and Americans are made well aware of that fact. The largest proportion of Americans at St Andrews study IR and many view it as a solid alternative to Georgetown, Columbia, etc. Further, it has exchanges with Princeton, Georgetown, University of Pennsylvania, and Emory that help its reputation in the US.
4. The place is truly unique, with all sorts of ancient traditions, and Americans enjoy the ambiance. St Andrews is a small community with amazing beaches, medieval architecture, and lots of charm. Robes, balls, garden parties, beach parties, etc. are appealing to some Americans.
5. St Andrews is home to some of the best golf courses in the world, including the Old Course. Americans tend to view golf as a wealthy/posh sport and St Andrews is the Mecca of golf. Much of the prestige associated with the town is also applied to the university.
6. One finds some amazing, small liberal arts colleges in the US and St Andrews is in many ways reminiscent of these institutions. The major reason why St Andrews isn't routinely in the top five is its size. The rankings tend to place a high value on research, but overlook things that places like St Andrews do very well. Liberal arts colleges tend to value teaching, student interaction, and personal development. Americans like the personal attention that comes with this more intimate, student-oriented environment.
Touche
Reply 26
17
Clarence
Touche
haha my sentiments exactly
I forgot Americans had that obsession about UK quaintness which makes St Andy's perfect in that light lol
Reply 27
Well you asked the question! But really...
Americans do tend to value British quaintness, but if St Andrews didn't have top notch academics, in addition to ambiance, disappointed students would just transfer back to the United States. Given their extremely high retention rate, it seems that students are satisfied and St Andrews is doing a lot of things right.
It seems like many top students in England overlook St Andrews. Is this because it's a Scottish University? If you asked the average American they would likely put it close to on par with Oxbridge, but it doesn't seem to be viewed in quite the same light in England. Why is this?
Americans do tend to value British quaintness, but if St Andrews didn't have top notch academics, in addition to ambiance, disappointed students would just transfer back to the United States. Given their extremely high retention rate, it seems that students are satisfied and St Andrews is doing a lot of things right.
It seems like many top students in England overlook St Andrews. Is this because it's a Scottish University? If you asked the average American they would likely put it close to on par with Oxbridge, but it doesn't seem to be viewed in quite the same light in England. Why is this?
Reply 28
15
IR Postgraduate
Well you asked the question! But really...
Americans do tend to value British quaintness, but if St Andrews didn't have top notch academics, in addition to ambiance, disappointed students would just transfer back to the United States. Given their extremely high retention rate, it seems that students are satisfied and St Andrews is doing a lot of things right.
It seems like many top students in England overlook St Andrews. Is this because it's a Scottish University? If you asked the average American they would likely put it close to on par with Oxbridge, but it doesn't seem to be viewed in quite the same light in England. Why is this?
Americans do tend to value British quaintness, but if St Andrews didn't have top notch academics, in addition to ambiance, disappointed students would just transfer back to the United States. Given their extremely high retention rate, it seems that students are satisfied and St Andrews is doing a lot of things right.
It seems like many top students in England overlook St Andrews. Is this because it's a Scottish University? If you asked the average American they would likely put it close to on par with Oxbridge, but it doesn't seem to be viewed in quite the same light in England. Why is this?
Most people swear by published league tables over here which unfortunately overlook St. Andrews' small size and so gets a lower score than the bigger, research-oriented universities (in the tables that score research). Interestingly, this year's (much-lambasted) Guardian table ranks it very highly and it's methodology this year primarily looked at comparing the undergraduate experience of universities.
Reply 29
zzzz **** up with those rankings. Big fat care face.
And Edinburgh is overall a better uni than St.Andrews in my opinion.
And Edinburgh is overall a better uni than St.Andrews in my opinion.
Reply 30
What a sad person, to sit and cogitate over such a banal issue and create a table.
Reply 31
God, leave him alone. You've all thought about it, that's why you're one here.
Reply 32
clapyourhands
zzzz **** up with those rankings. Big fat care face.
And Edinburgh is overall a better uni than St.Andrews in my opinion.
And Edinburgh is overall a better uni than St.Andrews in my opinion.
i agree, when refer to academic stuff in scotland, edinburgh comes up on everybody's lips first.
Reply 33
jackdanniel
i agree, when refer to academic stuff in scotland, edinburgh comes up on everybody's lips first.
This may be true of the people you've encountered, but in reality the RAE shows that St Andrews is at the top of the league tables for research in Scotland. Further, St Andrews has higher teaching scores and entrance requirements the Edinburgh.
Perhaps there are two reasons for the assumption that Edinburgh is the top for research: they are far larger than St Andrews and have a wider range of schools such as law, engineering, etc. that do significant research. St Andrews is purposively very small and doesn't have a faculty of law, engineering, or even a large medical school (it is quite small).
Students will have their own preferences, but in my view quantity should not overshadow quality.
Reply 34
IR Postgraduate
This may be true of the people you've encountered, but in reality the RAE shows that St Andrews is at the top of the league tables for research in Scotland. Further, St Andrews has higher teaching scores and entrance requirements the Edinburgh.
The RAE is a bit out of date and is heavily biased by quantity of research submitted (favouring large institutions). Given the latter fact it is a significant testiment to St Andrews' excellence that it does so well in the assessments.
Reply 35
jackdanniel
i agree, when refer to academic stuff in scotland, edinburgh comes up on everybody's lips first.
Why? St Andrews is at least Edinburgh's equal in many of the subjects it offers.
Reply 36
well, i am not to comment on how r the quantity of research or the width of subjects like within both. what i am talkin is the international academic reputation, and that's what most uk univs are trying to enhance at the moment.
i have to admit both r highly renowned by people within this country, and let's go to a picture internationally, a huge number of people within this planet know there's a reputable univ called edinburgh situated in scotland's capital city, but the same could probably not be said of st andrews. although it should have deserved a good recognition worldwide. winning all respects within this country is far from enough to become a truely world class univ. and i think ed in this aspect really did better than st-and in terms of gaining an international standing.
i have to admit both r highly renowned by people within this country, and let's go to a picture internationally, a huge number of people within this planet know there's a reputable univ called edinburgh situated in scotland's capital city, but the same could probably not be said of st andrews. although it should have deserved a good recognition worldwide. winning all respects within this country is far from enough to become a truely world class univ. and i think ed in this aspect really did better than st-and in terms of gaining an international standing.
Reply 37
I take your argument on international reputation, but would argue that if anything international prestige for any university is subjective and regional. St Andrews regularly surpasses Edinburgh in national rankings, but Edinburgh seems to do better in international rankings (largely a pointless exercise, in my opinion). This is because these rankings are often biased toward large research institutions and research output in the hard sciences. St Andrews' strenths are largely in the arts and they're a small institution. This means that they won't do as well in these rankings, but it by no means indicates that they lack international prestige. Further, prestige is highly regional. Edinburgh may fair better in certain parts of Asia where they actively publicize, but St Andrews will also be viewed more highly in regions they target. For example, in the United States/North America St Andrews is viewed as an alternative to Oxbridge, while Edinburgh is considered a better than average university.
Reply 38
IR Postgraduate
For example, in the United States/North America St Andrews is viewed as an alternative to Oxbridge, while Edinburgh is considered a better than average university.
St.Andrews, is not or is anywhere near an alternative to Oxbridge.
Reply 39
clapyourhands
St.Andrews, is not or is anywhere near an alternative to Oxbridge.
Why do you think this?
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