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VW was not isolated - EU is also corrupt over timber imports Watch

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    See Guardian Article:
    http://www.theguardian.com/environme...icy-is-working

    "Leaked review shows that EU law is failing to prevent $100bn a year trade in illegal timber - or that rules are even being implemented"
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    See Guardian Article:
    http://www.theguardian.com/environme...icy-is-working

    "Leaked review shows that EU law is failing to prevent $100bn a year trade in illegal timber - or that rules are even being implemented"
    Did you read the article or just the start of it?

    The regulations are failing because some of the member states are not imposing them or lack the funds to do so:

    Nine EU countries have still not imposed penalties or taken action against timber traffickers and six others have yet to carry out checks on importers as required by the EU's timber regulation.
    Competent authorities do not yet have the capacity and resources they would need for effective application of the regulation
    Indeed the regulation has been analysed as very ineffective, but if something doesn't work then it doesn't work. Corruption has nothing to do with it.

    Greece and Hungary are in legal proceedings about the implementation of these regulations. Hopefully they'll start cutting back on illegal timber imports.
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Greece and Hungary are in legal proceedings about the implementation of these regulations. Hopefully they'll start cutting back on illegal timber imports.
    I didn't mention corruption. However, I will introduce it now.

    The EU Timber Regulations have been around for more than a decade (
    http://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/News/...R_FLEGT_EN.pdf ).

    It is evident that many EU countries are simply turning a blind eye to large scale violations, either by direct corruption of officials or indirect corruption in which the officials allow their country to have a financial advantage no matter what the price to the rest of the world and the EU.

    The regulations can be enforced by the ECJ but have not been enforced until very recently, after the ECA report.

    It really isn't reasonable to turn a blind eye to every incompetence, negligence and corruption within the EU just because you are in love with the idea of destroying the diversity of Europe.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    I didn't mention corruption. However, I will introduce it now.

    The EU Timber Regulations have been around for more than a decade (
    http://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/News/...R_FLEGT_EN.pdf ).

    It is evident that many EU countries are simply turning a blind eye to large scale violations, either by direct corruption of officials or indirect corruption in which the officials allow their country to have a financial advantage no matter what the price to the rest of the world and the EU.

    The regulations can be enforced by the ECJ but have not been enforced until very recently, after the ECA report.

    It really isn't reasonable to turn a blind eye to every incompetence, negligence and corruption within the EU just because you are in love with the idea of destroying the diversity of Europe.
    Er, yes you did. The title of this thread is ''VW was not isolated - EU is also corrupt over timber imports''.

    You keep saying that there is corruption in the EU over illegal timber imports but you have not provided evidence for this. Are you sure you know what corruption means or do you just like throwing around buzzwords?

    Corruption isn't the same thing as incompetence and incompetence doesn't necessarily mean negligence. The ECA study has been taken into account and acted upon.
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Er, yes you did. The title of this thread is ''VW was not isolated - EU is also corrupt over timber imports''.

    You keep saying that there is corruption in the EU over illegal timber imports but you have not provided evidence for this. Are you sure you know what corruption means or do you just like throwing around buzzwords?

    Corruption isn't the same thing as incompetence and incompetence doesn't necessarily mean negligence. The ECA study has been taken into account and acted upon.
    Corruption is where officials take money in exchange for favours. The recipient of the money need not be the official, it could be his family or, as in this case, his Member State.

    The EU certainly seems to corrupt people, it could be the paltry punishments (withholding promotion etc) or that, like other megastates and empires no-one really believes in it after a while.

    These are the punishments received by EU staff who were found to be involved in swindling several hundred million euros from the EU:

    The OLAF report 2014 Figure 27: Sanctions imposed following OLAF’s disciplinary recommendations

    Removal from post 4
    Termination of contract 3
    Blacklisted from future employment 2
    Downgrading 2
    Deferment of advancement 2
    Warning 7

    http://ec.europa.eu/anti_fraud/docum...rt_2014_en.pdf

    Truly chilling reading.

    It looks like not only can the EU do no wrong but anyone working for the EU can do no wrong.

    It is amazing that you should be reacting to the news that the EU is failing to prevent the wholesale destruction of precious and endangered forests by indulging in verbal gymnastics to defend your favourite megastate!
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    Corruption is where officials take money in exchange for favours. The recipient of the money need not be the official, it could be his family or, as in this case, his Member State.
    Yes, and since this is the case you shouldn't be claiming that the EU is corrupt unless you are able to present evidence that EU officials (not the member states) have participated in such activities with regards to timber imports. You haven't.

    (Original post by newpersonage)
    The EU certainly seems to corrupt people, it could be the paltry punishments (withholding promotion etc) or that, like other megastates and empires no-one really believes in it after a while.

    These are the punishments received by EU staff who were found to be involved in swindling several hundred million euros from the EU:

    The OLAF report 2014 Figure 27: Sanctions imposed following OLAF’s disciplinary recommendations

    Removal from post 4
    Termination of contract 3
    Blacklisted from future employment 2
    Downgrading 2
    Deferment of advancement 2
    Warning 7

    http://ec.europa.eu/anti_fraud/docum...rt_2014_en.pdf

    Truly chilling reading.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. OLAF have investigated claims made about fraud and have provided recommendations to the relevant institutions on how best to act upon them. This has happened and long should this continue. What more is there to say?

    I don't think this report is evidence of wide-spread corruption within the EU. The EU employs tens of thousands of people, 65 recommendations seems pretty good. Just because I'm not foaming at the mouth about this in rage doesn't mean I don't care about fraud or the failures of the EU.
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    I don't think this report is evidence of wide-spread corruption within the EU. The EU employs tens of thousands of people, 65 recommendations seems pretty good. Just because I'm not foaming at the mouth about this in rage doesn't mean I don't care about fraud or the failures of the EU.
    But you clearly don't care about the trees or the flagrant disregard of the rules by some countries or the failure of the Commission to act in a more timely fashion. In fact your only concern seems to be to defend the EU.
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    (Original post by newpersonage)
    But you clearly don't care about the trees or the flagrant disregard of the rules by some countries or the failure of the Commission to act in a more timely fashion. In fact your only concern seems to be to defend the EU.
    As per my first reply:

    Greece and Hungary are in legal proceedings about the implementation of these regulations. Hopefully they'll start cutting back on illegal timber imports.

    As per my last reply:

    What more is there to say?
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    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Greece and Hungary are in legal proceedings about the implementation of these regulations. Hopefully they'll start cutting back on illegal timber imports.
    ....
    What more is there to say?
    Four countries (Greece, Hungary, Romania and Spain) have not yet fully implemented the EU Timber Regulation
    Mr Karel Pinxten, Member of the Court of Auditors.

    All that needs to be said is that the EU is incompetent and glacially slow to respond to problems - in this case a $100bn industry. Yet some people support it as if it is the "promised land".
 
 
 
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