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One of the uni's I applied to requested details of what other schools I've applied to Watch

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    (Original post by soal)
    I'm not an international applicant, applying from Europe making me a "Home student".

    Also, the one who sent me the original email asking me for the details of my other university applications was the head of admissions at that university.

    So basically what I'm understanding is that my chances of attending this university are already foregone and whatever action I take now is simply to prevent or aid in this not befalling other students? I'd be happy to do that if I could make a positive difference, however it feels awful to be rejected on "illegal" grounds.
    Are you sure that it was the head of admissions for the university and not just for the medical school? Med schools are well known for behaving badly around admissions rules - the official UCAS contact for the university is unlikely to put their name to an email breaking UCAS rules.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    Are you sure that it was the head of admissions for the university and not just for the medical school? Med schools are well known for behaving badly around admissions rules - the official UCAS contact for the university is unlikely to put their name to an email breaking UCAS rules.
    I re-checked the email again, the addresser was titled "Senior Administrative Officer" at the admissions office of the university, and not the "medical school", though not sure what implications that entails.

    Also: just received a reply from this same senior administrative officer asking for further certificates PLUS re-posting the same question as to what universities and programmes I have applied to. The previous answer I sent them was a non-specific one about me having applied 8 years ago to 4 dentistry programmes and that this was my first application to medicine as well as to that university in particular. Apparently, they're not content with this answer and want explicit details of what other universities I have applied to. I'm at a loss as to how to proceed, do I reveal all my other medicine applications, do I tell them I don't wish to do so, or do I just say that I haven't applied to any other medicine programmes?
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    (Original post by soal)
    I re-checked the email again, the addresser was titled "Senior Administrative Officer" at the admissions office of the university, and not the "medical school", though not sure what implications that entails.

    Also: just received a reply from this same senior administrative officer asking for further certificates PLUS re-posting the same question as to what universities and programmes I have applied to. The previous answer I sent them was a non-specific one about me having applied 8 years ago to 4 dentistry programmes and that this was my first application to medicine as well as to that university in particular. Apparently, they're not content with this answer and want explicit details of what other universities I have applied to. I'm at a loss as to how to proceed, do I reveal all my other medicine applications, do I tell them I don't wish to do so, or do I just say that I haven't applied to any other medicine programmes?
    This is getting interesting...
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    (Original post by soal)
    I re-checked the email again, the addresser was titled "Senior Administrative Officer" at the admissions office of the university, and not the "medical school", though not sure what implications that entails.

    Also: just received a reply from this same senior administrative officer asking for further certificates PLUS re-posting the same question as to what universities and programmes I have applied to. The previous answer I sent them was a non-specific one about me having applied 8 years ago to 4 dentistry programmes and that this was my first application to medicine as well as to that university in particular. Apparently, they're not content with this answer and want explicit details of what other universities I have applied to. I'm at a loss as to how to proceed, do I reveal all my other medicine applications, do I tell them I don't wish to do so, or do I just say that I haven't applied to any other medicine programmes?
    A Senior Administrative Officer is just a member of the admissions team (quite possibly for the med school and not the central admissions office) and is not the head of admissions within a university.

    If you can tell us which university this is we can help get you contact details of this persons manager to forward on the emails and express your concerns about being asked for this information while UCAS invisibility (that's the technical term for universities not seeing your other choices) applies.

    In the meantime I would recommend replying to this person and asking why they are asking you to disclose your other UCAS choices while invisibility applies and when they require a response by.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    A Senior Administrative Officer is just a member of the admissions team (quite possibly for the med school and not the central admissions office) and is not the head of admissions within a university.

    If you can tell us which university this is we can help get you contact details of this persons manager to forward on the emails and express your concerns about being asked for this information while UCAS invisibility (that's the technical term for universities not seeing your other choices) applies.

    In the meantime I would recommend replying to this person and asking why they are asking you to disclose your other UCAS choices while invisibility applies and when they require a response by.
    Thank you PQ for the clarification.

    I am thoroughly considering all these options you all are providing me, since I am interpreting their asking me for further certificate copies as mildly positive that they might still be considering me. For this reason I am still uncomfortable naming the university which I hope is understandable. I simply wish to thoroughly consider all my options before proceeding with a course of action.

    Question: wouldn't me replying to the officer with the question of why they're asking about my other applications while UCAS invisibility applies indicate that I have in fact applied to other medical programmes?

    What is the best "image" of myself I can present to a medical programme admissions office, that I am only applying and thinking of them or that I have applied to more than one university?
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    (Original post by soal)
    Thank you PQ for the clarification.

    I am thoroughly considering all these options you all are providing me, since I am interpreting their asking me for further certificate copies as mildly positive that they might still be considering me. For this reason I am still uncomfortable naming the university which I hope is understandable. I simply wish to thoroughly consider all my options before proceeding with a course of action.

    Question: wouldn't me replying to the officer with the question of why they're asking about my other applications while UCAS invisibility applies indicate that I have in fact applied to other medical programmes?

    What is the best "image" of myself I can present to a medical programme admissions office, that I am only applying and thinking of them or that I have applied to more than one university?
    Given that pretty much every single applicant will have applied to other courses, I honestly don't see how that would make a difference. Whilst I agree that they have no right to know what other universities you've applied to, I think you're overthinking the impact what you're writing now is going to have on your chances of getting in. There's absolutely nothing unusual or wrong about you making these enquiries.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Given that pretty much every single applicant will have applied to other courses, I honestly don't see how that would make a difference. Whilst I agree that they have no right to know what other universities you've applied to, I think you're overthinking the impact what you're writing now is going to have on your chances of getting in. There's absolutely nothing unusual or wrong about you making these enquiries.
    As a sidebar, unless there can be clear, direct and correlative link between the application submitted and the rejection therein, where the rejection was solely or primarily as a result of the applicant not acquiescing to the "illegal" request, then the chances of actually getting a "compensated" pass lie somewhere between zero and astronomically unlikely.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    Given that pretty much every single applicant will have applied to other courses, I honestly don't see how that would make a difference. Whilst I agree that they have no right to know what other universities you've applied to, I think you're overthinking the impact what you're writing now is going to have on your chances of getting in. There's absolutely nothing unusual or wrong about you making these enquiries.
    ^this.

    And OP you have nothing to lose by naming the uni. They are in the wrong not you. And naming them may help the experienced helpers on this thread to give more specific assistance to you.

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    Wouldn't at all be surprised if this is KCL, their medical school admissions team is a disgrace.
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    Just subbing out of interest to see where this goes. PQ is correct in everything here, as always.
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    (Original post by apronedsamurai)
    As a sidebar, unless there can be clear, direct and correlative link between the application submitted and the rejection therein, where the rejection was solely or primarily as a result of the applicant not acquiescing to the "illegal" request, then the chances of actually getting a "compensated" pass lie somewhere between zero and astronomically unlikely.
    This. Seeing as it would prove exceedingly difficult if not impossible to prove that my rejection was due to the "illegal" request, or my lack of acquiescing to it, I feel it wouldn't be in my best interest to "challenge" or confront the university about it, nor "threatening" / informing them of my reporting this to UCAS. Reporting this to UCAS would have to occur in the aftermath of my rejection, or that's what I'm wondering at this moment.

    They gave me until Thursday February 18th to reply to the latest correspondence today. I will send in the copies of my grades, however I am still undecided on what to answer their second query about my other applications.

    Do I tell them, do I not?
    Or do I simply ask why whilst reminding them of the UCAS invisibility rule which runs the risk of me appearing as "uncooperative"?
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    (Original post by soal)
    This. Seeing as it would prove exceedingly difficult if not impossible to prove that my rejection was due to the "illegal" request, or my lack of acquiescing to it, I feel it wouldn't be in my best interest to "challenge" or confront the university about it, nor "threatening" / informing them of my reporting this to UCAS. Reporting this to UCAS would have to occur in the aftermath of my rejection, or that's what I'm wondering at this moment.

    They gave me until Thursday February 18th to reply to the latest correspondence today. I will send in the copies of my grades, however I am still undecided on what to answer their second query about my other applications.

    Do I tell them, do I not?
    Or do I simply ask why whilst reminding them of the UCAS invisibility rule which runs the risk of me appearing as "uncooperative"?
    Contact UCAS, tell them the situation, and they will be better qualified to tell you how best to proceed.
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    (Original post by soal)
    But what can I stand to gain from contacting only UCAS at THIS point? Can I gain a spot on the programme? Is the university more likely to give me a spot or not? Can UCAS force them to "reconsider me", what ever that means, or make them give me an offer? Or is me telling the university I will make a complaint with UCAS, or just filing the complaint without telling them, going to make them less likely to make me an offer? @PQ @Origami Bullets @SlowlorisIncognito

    This is all just horrible.
    I agree it is all just horrible- the uni is not allowed to treat you this way. Part of the reason I'm suggesting you alert UCAS is so that next year's students don't get treated this way. This would also benefit you if you were reapplying next year for some reason.

    @PQ has made some very good points.

    The reason I specifically suggested you contact UCAS ASAP is because I know the uni has broken admissions rules, and UCAS are the only people who are really in a position to make them reconsider you. I don't know if they will or not (although I know they have done this in the past when unis have broken admissions rules), but basically at this point, UCAS are probably your only chance of having your application reconsidered.

    There is a very high chance that you are not the only student that this has happened to or the only student to make a complaint, so the uni is unlikely to be able to factor your complaint into their decision making process even if they wanted to. However, the more people who complain, the more likely UCAS will be compelled to take action.

    You can contact UCAS for advice as well, without them passing any details onto the university.
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    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Wouldn't at all be surprised if this is KCL, their medical school admissions team is a disgrace.
    So is there law admissions, they rejected me in October as they thought I had re-say my A-Levels (I have not) and then took a month to pass on my application to some tutor to say it could be re-considered and they still hadn't got back to me by 11 Feb so I withdrew and firmed LSE, which was my first choice anyway, since I was sick of waiting. Have no idea what the admissions teams do with their time!
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    (Original post by soal)
    Thank you PQ for the clarification.

    I am thoroughly considering all these options you all are providing me, since I am interpreting their asking me for further certificate copies as mildly positive that they might still be considering me. For this reason I am still uncomfortable naming the university which I hope is understandable. I simply wish to thoroughly consider all my options before proceeding with a course of action.

    Question: wouldn't me replying to the officer with the question of why they're asking about my other applications while UCAS invisibility applies indicate that I have in fact applied to other medical programmes?

    What is the best "image" of myself I can present to a medical programme admissions office, that I am only applying and thinking of them or that I have applied to more than one university?
    They will know full well that you have applied elsewhere - if you haven't then you're clearly nuts, given the rate of rejection. They are wondering which ones you have applied to.

    I know you've mentioned having applied to dentistry 8 years ago, which indicates that you're older than most applicants. Are you currently studying somewhere, and if so have you spoken to your college about what's going on? They may (should) be willing to make enquiries on your behalf.

    You could claim that your college has advised you not to tell them and has said something about universities not being allowed to know where else you've applied to. That shifts the focus of who is being 'difficult' to your college, while protecting you from having to hand over the info.

    (Original post by soal)
    This. Seeing as it would prove exceedingly difficult if not impossible to prove that my rejection was due to the "illegal" request, or my lack of acquiescing to it, I feel it wouldn't be in my best interest to "challenge" or confront the university about it, nor "threatening" / informing them of my reporting this to UCAS. Reporting this to UCAS would have to occur in the aftermath of my rejection, or that's what I'm wondering at this moment.
    I've PM'd you the email addresses of all the relevant Heads of Admissions, as I have a sneaking suspicion that if they knew what was happening then they would not be happy. You may choose to use those contact details as you wish, but it could be an intermediate stage between where you are now and contacting UCAS post-rejection.

    It's going to be pretty difficult for a university to come back from having rejected you, especially because that acts as an admission on their part that they were in the wrong. From that point of view, it may be better to get in touch with senior people at the university so that they can quietly intervene internally.
    (Original post by AliRizzo)
    Wouldn't at all be surprised if this is KCL, their medical school admissions team is a disgrace.

    Speculation is entirely pointless and will do no one - least of all the OP - any favours whatsoever.
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    (Original post by Origami Bullets)
    They will know full well that you have applied elsewhere - if you haven't then you're clearly nuts, given the rate of rejection. They are wondering which ones you have applied to.

    I know you've mentioned having applied to dentistry 8 years ago, which indicates that you're older than most applicants. Are you currently studying somewhere, and if so have you spoken to your college about what's going on? They may (should) be willing to make enquiries on your behalf.
    No I am not studying anywhere and am applying as an "individual". I'm a mature student yes.

    Yes, that's what I figured, universities automatically assume 99 % of students (except a minute minority for economical, distance, family or other reasons) apply to all 4 of their allowed medical choices. So me telling them I've only applied to them would be seriously doubted.

    But frankly that is the choice I'm contemplating the most since every university wants to feel like your first choice and that if they were to make you an offer they want to be as sure as possible that you're accepting. Prestige and statistics and all that.

    (Original post by Origami Bullets)
    I've PM'd you the email addresses of all the relevant Heads of Admissions, as I have a sneaking suspicion that if they knew what was happening then they would not be happy. You may choose to use those contact details as you wish, but it could be an intermediate stage between where you are now and contacting UCAS post-rejection.

    It's going to be pretty difficult for a university to come back from having rejected you, especially because that acts as an admission on their part that they were in the wrong. From that point of view, it may be better to get in touch with senior people at the university so that they can quietly intervene internally.
    Thank you Origami Bullets, I sent you a PM reply. Do you advise me to use those contact information and write the relevant head this instance? Or should I wait? Please see my PM.
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    My current line of thought was that I'd reply telling them that they're the only programme I've applied to (my white lie, since they have no right to even ask and can't find out till after making me an offer/rejection it seems like fair play from me) explaining why and giving course-specific reasons for wanting to attend their university, while at the same time softly pointing out as a worried student that I was under the understanding that universities aren't allowed ask what other programmes a student has applied to and that this question from them is making me worried. The purpose of this would be to remind them if forgetful/ignorant of the fact that they're asking me an illegal unethical question but in a soft, non-challenging way where I show the worried student side of me which would hopefully let them feel the pressure of their ill-doings. Any thoughts?

    Lastly, what do you figure is the most likely reason for them asking about my other applications?

    -Is it that they're contemplating what priority I might give them by considering the competitiveness of my other choices since every university for several reasons prefer to make offers to students they know will accept?

    -Or is it more likely that if they're on the fence and feel I might get an offer elsewhere that they might abstain from making me an offer hoping I'd get one elsewhere?

    -Or am I missing another alternative?

    PQ, Origami Bullets, SlowlorisIncognito, apronedsamurai
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    (Original post by soal)
    No I am not studying anywhere and am applying as an "individual". I'm a mature student yes.

    Yes, that's what I figured, universities automatically assume 99 % of students (except a minute minority for economical, distance, family or other reasons) apply to all 4 of their allowed medical choices. So me telling them I've only applied to them would be seriously doubted.

    But frankly that is the choice I'm contemplating the most since every university wants to feel like your first choice and that if they were to make you an offer they want to be as sure as possible that you're accepting. Prestige and statistics and all that.



    Thank you Origami Bullets, I sent you a PM reply. Do you advise me to use those contact information and write the relevant head this instance? Or should I wait? Please see my PM.
    Med schools know that almost every offer they make will be accepted.

    The concern here is that med schools could be talking about applicants between themselves to ensure that applicants only receive a single offer (something that used to happen before invisibility was brought in) but also that as many applicants as possible receive an offer (ie not end up with a situation where some applicants get 2/3 offers and others get no offers).

    I would suggest that you reply to the person who has emailed you with the information they requested but excluding the details about exactly which universities. Confirm that you have applied to 3 other UK medical schools (like you say that's pretty much a certainty anyway) but ask why they are asking what your other choices are. Play dumb and just say you thought that information was withheld from universities. CC or BCC in the head of admissions for the university concerned.
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    (Original post by PQ)
    CC or BCC in the head of admissions for the university concerned.
    CC surely. BCC always feels a bit sneeky to me... ?
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    (Original post by jneill)
    CC surely. BCC always feels a bit sneeky to me... ?
    It depends on why you're CCing tbh. If using BCC I'd recommend contacting the person BCCd separately and explaining that you wanted them to be aware of the situation but don't want any direct intervention that can be tied back to your application...so in the OPs situation where they're concerned that escalating could damage their chances it might be a route to get the situation resolved without being outed as the whistleblower.

    I think I just mixed about a billion metaphors there....time for caffeine.
 
 
 
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